The Bible

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Post by AlbatrossFlyer »

tommcat327 wrote:
jimolliemom wrote:This may not be the norm everywhere. Heck, it may only be common here in my tiny town but the young people (say 12 to 17 years old) that are involved in Church, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts (Note, BOTH are based on God).
interesting that they are based on religion where you are, and maybe most places for all i know but i was a cub scout and boy scout and i dont recall ever praying or doing anything even remotely church related.
i learned a lot of outdoor and survival skills though and am glad i was a boy scout.
isn't the boy scout motto, in god we trust?

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Post by UAHparrothead »

Q&S, I am going to try to answer that questions and try to comment of the activity that has occurred in my absense. First I would say that we have had a lot of talk about "religion" as a concept. I HATE that word, it is not productive and seeks only to divide not too connect. I see my own personal faith to be a "relationship" with God, I talk with God and I beleive he has led me to where I am today, no I don't hear voices, but it is more of just a gut feeling, which I will admit could be nothing more than that Lean Cuisene I had for lunch, but its about, for me, faith not proof.

I think that some of you guys and gals have been exposed to some pretty bad people, what has been called "nominal Christians" who don't see Christianity has a relationship but as a set standard of rules and regulations, "You gotta do this and that and this, or it don't work", I think that is assnine and further more near blasphamy. You are gonna tell God how his grace is suppose to work. You have the audacity to put human regualtions on the grace of God offered on the Cross. It is like saying, "Jesus your sacrifice wasn't quite good enough and therefore we gotta put our own regulations in there so it'll work right". You could put a group of true Christians in a room and they could tell you many different journeys that led them to Christ and God. There is no right or wrong way. But in each and every story there is one constant, a surrender to Christ, a moment in which you say, "I put my life in your hands, because it was never mine to begin with, it was just on loan". But it is not a surrender to a religion or to a doctrine of a church, it is an surrender to a personal but never private relationship with God through Christ. I know that to someone who is doesn't believe it is the most ridiculous notion, but to me having this relationship with Christ is as necessary as eating and breathing, it is not always positive, it is sometimes a struggle, but in the end it gives me hope to face a world lost in its own greed.

For those you are interested, I encourage you all to go out and find that place or worship, where you can enrich your faith and draw closer to God in that relationship. I can't offer proof, I wish I could, but then it would be easy to be a Christian, it would be a simple thing and would require no surrender and no grace. I hope that I have answered your question and I hope that I shed some light on the issue.

I want to once again thank everyone for a spirited discussion and applaud your respect for one another with a subject that is so deeply personal. I think this goes to prove that religion is something that we can talk about in good company, if we listen and respond respectfully.

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Post by tommcat327 »

AlbatrossFlyer wrote:
tommcat327 wrote:
jimolliemom wrote:This may not be the norm everywhere. Heck, it may only be common here in my tiny town but the young people (say 12 to 17 years old) that are involved in Church, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts (Note, BOTH are based on God).
interesting that they are based on religion where you are, and maybe most places for all i know but i was a cub scout and boy scout and i dont recall ever praying or doing anything even remotely church related.
i learned a lot of outdoor and survival skills though and am glad i was a boy scout.
isn't the boy scout motto, in god we trust?
i thought that was money. and i certainly like money even thought it says that on it :P
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Post by pbans »

AlbatrossFlyer wrote:
tommcat327 wrote:
jimolliemom wrote:This may not be the norm everywhere. Heck, it may only be common here in my tiny town but the young people (say 12 to 17 years old) that are involved in Church, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts (Note, BOTH are based on God).
interesting that they are based on religion where you are, and maybe most places for all i know but i was a cub scout and boy scout and i dont recall ever praying or doing anything even remotely church related.
i learned a lot of outdoor and survival skills though and am glad i was a boy scout.
isn't the boy scout motto, in god we trust?
No, it's "Be Prepared".....
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Post by Soraya »

jimolliemom wrote:This may not be the norm everywhere. Heck, it may only be common here in my tiny town but the young people (say 12 to 17 years old) that are involved in Church, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts (Note, BOTH are based on God)
No, Girl Scouts are a secular organization that allows all girls to join. Boy Scouts are not. I do not support the Boy Scouts, but what really upsets me is that they expect goverment and military money. They went to long lengthes to prove that they are a private organization. They can act like one and not expect local, state and federal goverment support.
jimolliemom wrote:and even sports (where we DO pray before games) are the nicer, better behaved children.
I am sure they are when the adults are watching. Should I tell you about the child that spent a semester bullying my child last year? Father was studying to be a minister and you couldn't volenteer at teh school without seeing the mother. Thankfully, they pulled the brat out of school this year. Seems that they were upset when quite a few parents requested that their daughters weren't in the same class again.

And what about Pagan or Athiest children? Do you let them join the teams? What if a Pagan child wanted to lead one of your prayers?
jimolliemom wrote:They are also the children who have parents at games, awards ceremonies (where we pray) and banquets. We are involved in our kids lives and if that means "Forcing religion"...so be it. Again, I know I'll be bashed for this but this is probably the strongest subject to me.
Well, go for it. You probably mean no harm, but you also are gulity of either forcing others in your community to have your beliefs or not take part. Sure, you've probably never had said it, but your message comes through loud and clear, even online. I hope these are private school and church events. If they allow this to go on in the public schools...well....I feel sorry for the kids and families that don't share your faith.

You probably don't see anything wrong, because it never has occured to you that others don't share your faith.
jimolliemom wrote:Hubby and I were talking last night, (after a covered dish dinner at church) and I told him if I didn't have total faith in God, I'd be scared to death.
And I can't imagine living my life in fear of something that can't even be proven.
jimolliemom wrote:I just know what is right for me and mine and for that, I stand proud.

Stand proud.....just think about others when you are forcing your prayers on them.
Well I’m a tidal pool explorer
From the days of my misspent youth
I believe that down on the beach
Where the seagulls preach
Is where the Chinese buried the truth...

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Post by jimolliemom »

tommcat327 wrote:
jimolliemom wrote:This may not be the norm everywhere. Heck, it may only be common here in my tiny town but the young people (say 12 to 17 years old) that are involved in Church, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts (Note, BOTH are based on God).
interesting that they are based on religion where you are, and maybe most places for all i know but i was a cub scout and boy scout and i dont recall ever praying or doing anything even remotely church related.
i learned a lot of outdoor and survival skills though and am glad i was a boy scout.
The Boy Scout Law...
A Boy Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and REVERANT.

The Boy Scout Oath...
On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the scout law. To help all people at all times, and to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.
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Post by jimolliemom »

Soraya wrote:
jimolliemom wrote:This may not be the norm everywhere. Heck, it may only be common here in my tiny town but the young people (say 12 to 17 years old) that are involved in Church, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts (Note, BOTH are based on God)
No, Girl Scouts are a secular organization that allows all girls to join. Boy Scouts are not. I do not support the Boy Scouts, but what really upsets me is that they expect goverment and military money. They went to long lengthes to prove that they are a private organization. They can act like one and not expect local, state and federal goverment support.
jimolliemom wrote:and even sports (where we DO pray before games) are the nicer, better behaved children.
I am sure they are when the adults are watching. Should I tell you about the child that spent a semester bullying my child last year? Father was studying to be a minister and you couldn't volenteer at teh school without seeing the mother. Thankfully, they pulled the brat out of school this year. Seems that they were upset when quite a few parents requested that their daughters weren't in the same class again.

And what about Pagan or Athiest children? Do you let them join the teams? What if a Pagan child wanted to lead one of your prayers?
jimolliemom wrote:They are also the children who have parents at games, awards ceremonies (where we pray) and banquets. We are involved in our kids lives and if that means "Forcing religion"...so be it. Again, I know I'll be bashed for this but this is probably the strongest subject to me.
Well, go for it. You probably mean no harm, but you also are gulity of either forcing others in your community to have your beliefs or not take part. Sure, you've probably never had said it, but your message comes through loud and clear, even online. I hope these are private school and church events. If they allow this to go on in the public schools...well....I feel sorry for the kids and families that don't share your faith.

You probably don't see anything wrong, because it never has occured to you that others don't share your faith.
jimolliemom wrote:Hubby and I were talking last night, (after a covered dish dinner at church) and I told him if I didn't have total faith in God, I'd be scared to death.
And I can't imagine living my life in fear of something that can't even be proven.
jimolliemom wrote:I just know what is right for me and mine and for that, I stand proud.

Stand proud.....just think about others when you are forcing your prayers on them.
Oddly enough, I was raised in a HUGE city where it was against the school board rules to have any form of prayer. So, we moved. That was not the reason for the move but it sure was nice. Yes, I live in the Bible belt. In this town, we have had one bank robbery in 34 years. The only homicides are family related and solved very quickly. We have never had anyone complain about any prayer. I am not a Holy Roller as some are called. I am voicing my opinion on this board. Everyone who knows me knows I attend church. I have no problem with those who do not. Our Girl Scout troop, which I am a leader, is held and supported by the Methodist church. I am a Girl Scout leader and was a scout for 13 years. Let me give you the Girl Scout Law... On my honor I will try to serve God and my country, to help people at all time and to live by the girl scout law. EXACTLY like the Boy Scouts in including God in our oath and law.

This is really trivial and way off the path from the thread and before I said I was done with all this because I am not trying to convince anyone, just voicing, as others were doing. Now it's turned into a thread on how unfair Christians are.
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Post by ph4ever »

tommcat327 wrote:one other thing that's always troubled me. where did most people get their current belief in god or religion. from your parents when you were a child most likely.
arent these the same people that convinced you that there was an easter bunny, tooth fairy and santa claus?? :o i'd be a bit skeptical about anything else they told me :lol:
I understand where you are coming from, and I did go through a period of my life where I turned my back on anything spiritual. I then went through a lot in my life and it was during that time that I developed my spiritual belief.

But in the same sense, how do you explain a child, raised by athiests, who somehow is able to draw remarkable faces at the age of 5 and at age 10 is painting items such as the following. This child, sought out Christianity on her own and ultimately converted her whole family to Christianity.

Where did her being drawn to God come from?

I don't care what anyone says - this kid has talent!!!

http://artakiane.com/home.htm

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Post by Key Lime Lee »

ph4ever wrote:Where did her being drawn to God come from?
Society at large? The God thing seems to still be pretty popular these days. Hard to miss it. My daughter knows about the concept of God because she sees it on TV, hears it from classmates etc.
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Post by ph4ever »

Key Lime Lee wrote:
ph4ever wrote:Where did her being drawn to God come from?
Society at large? The God thing seems to still be pretty popular these days. Hard to miss it. My daughter knows about the concept of God because she sees it on TV, hears it from classmates etc.
Quite possibly correct but I found this interesting quote from her website:
When I was four I started sharing with my family my visions of heaven. Through my conversations, through my art, and later poetry I brought my family to God .
Well...(said in my best Bubba voice) I've been on sabbatical.

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Post by Soraya »

jimolliemom wrote:Oddly enough, I was raised in a HUGE city where it was against the school board rules to have any form of prayer.
How horrid. A city that acknowledges that someone other then Christians live there. No wonder you moved.
jimolliemom wrote:So, we moved. That was not the reason for the move but it sure was nice. Yes, I live in the Bible belt. In this town, we have had one bank robbery in 34 years.
And was this bank robbery done by an Atheist? If not, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
jimolliemom wrote:The only homicides are family related and solved very quickly.
Again, were none of these families Christian? Were they all Atheist? If not, then it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
jimolliemom wrote:We have never had anyone complain about any prayer.
Oh, just because no one complains, there is no problem? Do you know what happens to people that complain? They get their homes vandalized, their children lose friends, if they own a business, people quit using them.

No one has complained, most likely, because of what will happen if they open their mouths, not that there isn't a problem. Do you think I let my neighbors know that I am not a Baptist? Hell no. I avoid the topic when I have to, and have little to do with anyone that pushes the issue.

I can't take certain jobs because I don't go to the 'right' church. I know better then to volunteer at certain places, even secular, because I know they pray before hand and will question why I don't. Since I don't like being a hypocrite, I don't participate.

Oh wait....could this be why you only see Christian parents at your teams events? No, couldn't be that you've set it up that way....blah.

Again, it just means that the Christians in your town have been successful in keeping others out of the mainstream...not that people don't have problems with public prayers at school/secular events.

Also, you didn't answer the question if this was a private or public school?
jimolliemom wrote:I am not a Holy Roller as some are called. I am voicing my opinion on this board. Everyone who knows me knows I attend church. I have no problem with those who do not.
But you've just tried to imply that murders and bank robbery are the fault of Non-Christians!!! You've also implied that children of atheists do not do well in school and don't have parents that are involved. Pardon me if I don't believe you that when you say you don't have problems with others that don't believe as you do.
jimolliemom wrote:Our Girl Scout troop, which I am a leader, is held and supported by the Methodist church. I am a Girl Scout leader and was a scout for 13 years. Let me give you the Girl Scout Law... On my honor I will try to serve God and my country, to help people at all time and to live by the girl scout law. EXACTLY like the Boy Scouts in including God in our oath and law.
Oh dear. I suggest you go through the Girl Scout information on religion. Girl Scouts do not demand that scouts are Christian. You may have twisted it in the troop you led, but if a parent had complained up the chain....then you would have been the one in violation...not the girl. Then again, most non-Christian parents don't want their children ostrazied....it's probably covered your butt so far.
jimolliemom wrote:This is really trivial and way off the path from the thread and before I said I was done with all this because I am not trying to convince anyone, just voicing, as others were doing. Now it's turned into a thread on how unfair Christians are.
Well, if the shoe fits. By you own words you've shown exactly why Atheists don't trust Christians and why there is an issues. Do all Christians act this way? No, but have the balls to stand by your own beliefs (as you've bragged about)....just don't pretend that your treat everyone the same .
Well I’m a tidal pool explorer
From the days of my misspent youth
I believe that down on the beach
Where the seagulls preach
Is where the Chinese buried the truth...

--Coastal Confessions

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Post by UAHparrothead »

I don't think that she was insinuating that non-Christians commit all the crimes, just simply describing one of the benefits of small town life.

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Post by Soraya »

UAHparrothead wrote:I don't think that she was insinuating that non-Christians commit all the crimes, just simply describing one of the benefits of small town life.
In any other thread, or at any other time, I would agree. there are benefits to living in small towns.....it has nothing to do with religion however.

Plenty of non-Christians live in small towns...for the very benefits that were mentioned (low crime for one)....how come it becomes an issue at all?

The implication was clear....since the Christians feel they can force into silence with their public displays of 'faith' and then blame any bad thing on non-Christians....well....how else do you take it?

Sigh...I guess this is what I was afraid would happen way back in the start of the thread.

This shows the very reason why Athiests and others keep our mouths shut even when we don't want to. The second you stand up for yourself, it's 'your kind' that is responsible for bank robberies and murders....even if it was a Christian that did the crime.

What about that woman who shot her minister husband in that small town? Guess that is non-christians fault, at least according to some, as well.

Brad, I am sure you really do mean well...but you are excuses the very behavior that puts the chip on non-Chrisitan shoulders and you yourself have said that people that don't have faith, really do...we just don't acknowledge at such.

Is there any wonder no good can come of this?
Well I’m a tidal pool explorer
From the days of my misspent youth
I believe that down on the beach
Where the seagulls preach
Is where the Chinese buried the truth...

--Coastal Confessions

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Post by UAHparrothead »

Soraya wrote:
UAHparrothead wrote:I don't think that she was insinuating that non-Christians commit all the crimes, just simply describing one of the benefits of small town life.
In any other thread, or at any other time, I would agree. there are benefits to living in small towns.....it has nothing to do with religion however.

Plenty of non-Christians live in small towns...for the very benefits that were mentioned (low crime for one)....how come it becomes an issue at all?

The implication was clear....since the Christians feel they can force into silence with their public displays of 'faith' and then blame any bad thing on non-Christians....well....how else do you take it?

Sigh...I guess this is what I was afraid would happen way back in the start of the thread.

This shows the very reason why Athiests and others keep our mouths shut even when we don't want to. The second you stand up for yourself, it's 'your kind' that is responsible for bank robberies and murders....even if it was a Christian that did the crime.

What about that woman who shot her minister husband in that small town? Guess that is non-christians fault, at least according to some, as well.

Brad, I am sure you really do mean well...but you are excuses the very behavior that puts the chip on non-Chrisitan shoulders and you yourself have said that people that don't have faith, really do...we just don't acknowledge at such.

Is there any wonder no good can come of this?
I don't think it is that bad, I mean maybe I shouldn't have started this thread. And for three days this thread was handled really well and now things have gotten out of hand. I am not excusing anything, just simply offering a different idea, you think she is slandering atheists, I think she is just talking about the benefits of the small town life. Different views on the same thing. Maybe we should give each other the benefit of the doubt.

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Post by jimolliemom »

UAHparrothead wrote:I don't think that she was insinuating that non-Christians commit all the crimes, just simply describing one of the benefits of small town life.
Thank you! I was pointing out that in a small, close knit community where we do everything as neighbors or a group, we watch out for each other and hence, the crime rate is low.

As far as the school system, it's ALL PUBLIC. As far as I know, this town has no private schools.

I FULLY understand what it means to be a Scout, either gender. Again, read the law and oath. Nuff said on that. I didn't write them, I just agree. You obviously do not.

NO ONE has to agree or believe as I do. I NEVER asked anyone to but to JUDGE ME AND MY PARENTING because I choose to raise God Loving children??? So, judge away. (That's not any of our jobs but feel free to anyway) If teaching my children to be kind, treat everyone the same and go out into the World trying to do something nice is wrong, then I am.
You know, in all this thinking about morals...our Parrothead club does LOTS to help and give back and teach about kindness...I actually see a connection. Come to think of it, ALL the clubs and organizations I am involved with are giving folks. Helping, loving, trying to make things easier for those who can't, be it financially, mentally, spritiually, any way we can. I call that being Christians, good samaritians, or many other names. I consider myself blessed.
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Post by SchoolGirlHeart »

jimolliemom wrote:As far as the school system, it's ALL PUBLIC. As far as I know, this town has no private schools.
Not trying to be confrontational, but I have a question. What if a family with a child in the public schools practices the Pagan religion and wants to offer a Pagan prayer before a sporting event. What happens?
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Post by LaTda »

A Scout respects the rights and beliefs of others.

So has anyone read the bible as a book vs reading the bible?



I really think that if this topic raises your hairs or blood pressure one should just back away & check out the joke section or something ;)
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Post by AlbatrossFlyer »

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:
jimolliemom wrote:As far as the school system, it's ALL PUBLIC. As far as I know, this town has no private schools.
Not trying to be confrontational, but I have a question. What if a family with a child in the public schools practices the Pagan religion and wants to offer a Pagan prayer before a sporting event. What happens?
organized prayer in public schools is unconstitutional - period.......

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Post by jimolliemom »

First let me say, it's not the parents, coaches or teachers that begin the prayer or gather the kids. They do this themselves. Parents join in at will. It is the same way in the children's theater and Madricals. The kids made a circle in the hallway. This is a public hall. They asked me if I'd like to join them in prayer before the performance. I did and was totally moved by the young people coming together.
If a child/family of ANY other belief wanted to pray, I'd totally respect that, as I have in the past. I have been to Synagage (although I can not spell it!). I observed and respected all of the service. I have been in TWO Catholic/Mormon weddings. I have in-laws who practice Wicken. I do not agree but I am quiet while they pray or observe or whatever it is for them. I am in no way going to tell anyone they are wrong. I did not mean to imply any such here. I was expressing how a small group, gathering for many things (church, games, scouting or what have you) support each other and are always there for support. I told you about the bank robbery and the homicides NOT TO say any one group did them. Only to say we are all live together as a community and we all respect each other. If ANYONE took offense to my postings, I am sorry. That is NOT the way I entended them. Then again, how many posters passed judgement on me for "Forcing religion" on my kids???? Did I ask why many are not teaching their children about God? No, I didn't. Because that's YOUR choice.
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Post by SchoolGirlHeart »

AlbatrossFlyer wrote:
SchoolGirlHeart wrote:
jimolliemom wrote:As far as the school system, it's ALL PUBLIC. As far as I know, this town has no private schools.
Not trying to be confrontational, but I have a question. What if a family with a child in the public schools practices the Pagan religion and wants to offer a Pagan prayer before a sporting event. What happens?
organized prayer in public schools is unconstitutional - period.......
when run *by* the school, I agree. but if in the context of an afterschool club run by students, I don't have a problem with it, as long as ANY group is allowed to form a club.
Carry on as you know they would want you to do. ~~JB, dedication to Tim Russert

Take your time
Find your passion
Life goes on until it ends
Don’t stop living
Until then

~~Mac McAnally

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