PETITION

SailorDan · Post by **SailorDan** » March 10, 2003 11:12 am

I understand that alot of people can't pay outrageous ticket prices. I also understand that us phans try to get in as many shows as possible. Hell I do it. But like Key Lime said. Ticketbastard is to entrenched in these venues. I say you might have to s*** it up and save up to see Jimmy. I know Jimmy cares but it's hard to change things that have almost been set in stone. I hate paying huge sums for ticks, but I do it because of the show. For me it is like drugs. I'll find a way to get a fix. I could be spending the extra money on car payments or whatever. But I choose to see Jimmy. I guess it's all about priorities. I'm not dissagreeing with this thread I think it's an important issue. I hope it does change things. But untill then " Spend it while ya can, Moneys contraband, you can't take it with you when ya go"

BottleofRum · Post by **BottleofRum** » March 10, 2003 11:13 am

Key Lime Lee wrote:
gowarm wrote: Let's band together and try to change the system we currently live in.
What are you proposing for a more amicable system? And keep in mind, your system needs to be equal in efficiency to the current system (love it or hate it, it distributes 45-60,000 tickets in under 20 minutes to people all over the country) and, apparently, needs to be more fair to fans while eliminating brokers. Plus, it also has to work within the confines of the realities of the music business, ie most of the venues Jimmy plays are owned by Clearchannel and/or have exclusive agreements with Ticketmaster for the distribution of tickets.

My point is that Jimmy is in the last 10 years of playing venues this size. He has many other interests. Why would he want to spend the considerable time and the money it would take to go against the very nature of the concert business these days?

Lee summed it up perfectly, this is exactly how I see things as well!

BTW
Caribbean Amphibian as we all would love a third show added you have a better chance of seeing Buffett winning a Grammy!

TMHB · Post by **TMHB** » March 10, 2003 11:15 am

BottleofRum wrote:
Key Lime Lee wrote:
gowarm wrote: Let's band together and try to change the system we currently live in.
What are you proposing for a more amicable system? And keep in mind, your system needs to be equal in efficiency to the current system (love it or hate it, it distributes 45-60,000 tickets in under 20 minutes to people all over the country) and, apparently, needs to be more fair to fans while eliminating brokers. Plus, it also has to work within the confines of the realities of the music business, ie most of the venues Jimmy plays are owned by Clearchannel and/or have exclusive agreements with Ticketmaster for the distribution of tickets.

My point is that Jimmy is in the last 10 years of playing venues this size. He has many other interests. Why would he want to spend the considerable time and the money it would take to go against the very nature of the concert business these days?
Lee summed it up perfectly, this is exactly how I see things as well!

BTW
Caribbean Amphibian as we all would love a third show added you have a better chance of seeing Buffett winning a Grammy!

I also agree

frosted fins · Post by **frosted fins** » March 10, 2003 11:27 am

{on soapbox}

If there are so many issues in regards to tix, perhaps Bubba should pack it up. Instead of touring he should make 2 or 3 arena type stops and Pay-Per-View the shows. Everyone still makes a buck, if you don't get tickets you can pay $50 to see the show and tape it for winter! We have RM but with feed and ISP problems that's not always a good thing. I don't believe there is a resolution to the ticket problem. I like the will-call and the Dead mail order idea though. It has been a continuously degrading problem since JB got popular. He doesn't have to do this anymore and maybe he shouldn't.

{off soapbox}

BottleofRum · Post by **BottleofRum** » March 10, 2003 11:32 am

jiggs wrote:not that this will make anyone happy, but there are venues that print out the max tix until they are gone...if you want 2 you get 8...kinda like the soup nazi...you only want 2 tickets...no tickets for you...

They used to do this but not anymore because at a ticketmaser outlet if you pay with a credit card they have to swipe your card into the TICKETMASDTER COMPUTER before the tickets are printed (there is a extra fee if you pay via CC) So if you paid by CC at a TM location look at you CC staement it will say the name of the tickets you bought (Jimmy Buffett) not where you bought them (Filenes, HMV...). They used to pull groups of tickets when Ticketmaster was cash only, if ticketmaster went back to cash only at the outlets more people inline would get tickts as the process would be faster. Or at least cash only the first day of the sale.

AlbatrossFlyer · Post by **AlbatrossFlyer** » March 10, 2003 11:56 am

apparently there was a major techincal problem with TM this past weekend severely effecting online ticket sales. this is a matter that need to addressed with TM.

second the ticket distribution channel for a venue is a contractual matter between the venue and the ticket company, not the artist.

as for scalers, yes there's a problem. but scalers do not acquire significant tickets by hiring people to stand in line to buy tickets. the brokers love to encourage this thought, but it's simply not true. they have links to TM and other official ticket outlets to garantee they get tickets. think about it....how many stories are being told of being 2nd or 3rd in line at the TM outlet and still not getting tickets? all the broker minions somehow managed to be number 1 in every line? the NY state attorney general prepared an excellent report on how the brokers acquire tickets. links to it have been posted on BN thread before go read it....

jimmy should care though, as a businessman every dollar a scaler gets over face value is a dollar out of jimmy's pocket because he must have undercharged for the ticket in the first place.

but we are also bringing this on ourselves. everyone that goes to more than 1 concert a year is limiting a fellow parrothead from getting his/her first ticket. since jimmy only does about 30 shows a year and say the average venue seating is 20,000. that's only 600,000 tickets available nationwide. now subtract out the holdback tickets for jimmy, the band & staff, corona & other sponsors, radio station promos etc. that probably only leaves 500,000 tickets to be had.

do we want the TM solution of regional sales ala camden, or significantly lower max tix allowed purchases?

PfinPhan · Post by **PfinPhan** » March 10, 2003 12:02 pm

I'd like to see TM only sell tickets to fans in the region of the show for the first 10 minutes. This would atleast allow the fans in the area to get tickets first before the nationwide scalpers.
Does anyone else think this would be a good idea??

stevsko · Post by **stevsko** » March 10, 2003 12:10 pm

Dr.Corona wrote: I understand the logistics that Mr. Buffett has no control over, so I make 1 and only 1 suggestion. Knock down the ticket limit to 2 per person.

This is a great idea! An 8 (even 6 or 4) ticket limit is way too high to allow everybody a fair chance to get at least something. However, lowering supply raises demand, and broker prices will increase (although they will presumably have access to fewer tickets, unless they hire twice the number of college kids to stand in line

). I can deal with that if it means I have a greater chance of buying a single pair at face value. A problem I forsee is that large groups who get split up in twos will then congregate on the lawn instead of in their assigned seats. I'm not sure about other venues, but the lawn was ruined at GW when those greedy b******s at Clear Channel threw seats on the lower half and charged pavilion prices for your little piece of real estate. The result may be an overcrowded lawn, and more people trying to sneak into seats that they don't have tickets for so they can be with their phriends - a possible added hassle for the venue. The recent shows by Phish had a two ticket limit per purchase, but then again their shows are a free-for-all inside the venue anyway.

Not saying this is the only answer, but it would be a start...

parrotbabby · Post by **parrotbabby** » March 10, 2003 12:20 pm

I was one of the luckey ones to get tickets for the 8/28/03 Show. But for s-- & giggles I went on ebay only to see they had tickets posted with what seating.. And these were posted 3 days before they went on sale.. Help us Jimmy this is not right to your fans. And all of them on ebay were by ticket agents.......... So what is up with that.... Thanks

pac7days · Post by **pac7days** » March 10, 2003 12:41 pm

Jimmy, Help us true fans out here....As the Alpine and Chicago sell date approaches, I find myself stocking up on the annual amounts of Rolaids and Tums. There has to be a better way. We all love you and will be there hell or high water but I have three children (all under 5) and that is all the stress this parrothead really needs. I will keep my fingers crossed to be able to get tickets to the shows....We love you Jimmy! Keep playin' for at least 20 more years! Drinks up!!!

Tiki Bar · Post by **Tiki Bar** » March 10, 2003 1:10 pm

Pac7, I'll be joining you on the quest for Chicago and Alpine - I've never scored a ticket from TM, but hoping this will be my year. (Last year, I was calling from my cell while my 4 and 6-year olds were getting started with a park district Easter Egg Hunt. At least they weren't shut out!)

If there was a solution that Jimmy could help us with, I hope he will consider it. I like the idea of first cracks going to Parrothead Clubs. I'm not currently in one due to distant proximity and time constraints to start a local one. But I would join the closest in a second if it meant I might get tickets!

Additionally, in my opinion, to shut out scalpers and get the phans in to see the show, they need to come up with a system of making concert tickets non-transferrable, and require ID at the gate with the block of tickets, just like plane tickets. That way, people would only buy the tickets they know they would use, or would be willing to lose the money on. I don't think they would go nearly as quickly, but I'm sure he would still sell out.

Signed,
Freezing and waiting impatiently for warm weather and the Tiki Time Tour!

FinsUp328 · Post by **FinsUp328** » March 10, 2003 2:02 pm

I agree with LastMango's suggestion of raising the pricing structure. I recall purchasing tickets (online) to last years Vegas show 12 hours after the tickets went on sale. Granted the only tix left were the most expensive but, had they been the same price as some of the other shows, I'm sure they would've sold out just as quick.

I was fortunate enough, this time around, to get 4 tix to Great Woods for the Thursday night show (but I've also been shutout a number of years in the past). Though not my first choice, I'll probably still pay a higher price to be there on Saturday. I think that most true fans would be willing to shell out the extra cash for the tickets directly from TM and thus putting some the "ticket brokers" out of work.

Eliminating the brokers will probably never happen but, just like being at a Buffett show, one can try to imagine a different way of life!

puckhead · Post by **puckhead** » March 10, 2003 2:05 pm

I too left empty handed on Saturday

This is the first time I got shut out completely and there seems to be an extraordinary number of PH's without tickets this year.

I still hold out hope that I will get to at least 1 show, but I know that it will cost me a lot more then I originally thought.

Some ideas: Why doesn't Buffett have a pre-sale like other artists do? He could limit the number of tickets available per person on the internet pre-sale and ensure that PH's get at least 2 tickets to the show?

Also, what is happening to the Ticket Exchange on this site. Two years ago, I sold tickets for face value, last year I was able to get a pair of tickets to the Pittsburgh show for $55.00 each. Now I am getting e-mails
from people offering to sell lawn tickets for $150 !! I know that if I really want to see him, I should just hold my nose and pay the money, but I though that the board restricted scalping. I don't mind paying a little over the price but $150 for lawn?

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » March 10, 2003 2:22 pm

puckhead wrote:
Some ideas: Why doesn't Buffett have a pre-sale like other artists do? He could limit the number of tickets available per person on the internet pre-sale and ensure that PH's get at least 2 tickets to the show?

Also, what is happening to the Ticket Exchange on this site. Two years ago, I sold tickets for face value, last year I was able to get a pair of tickets to the Pittsburgh show for $55.00 each. Now I am getting e-mails
from people offering to sell lawn tickets for $150 !! I know that if I really want to see him, I should just hold my nose and pay the money, but I though that the board restricted scalping. I don't mind paying a little over the price but $150 for lawn?

Presales won't guarantee parrotheads will get tickets... just requires a password and for brokers in the know, they'll just get an earlier shot at tix.

And if you're getting emails for more than face value, PM some of the moderators of this board to tell them. It IS being restricted, but if you're getting emails, then the moderators won't know unless you tell them....

As far as ticket maximums - frankly I think a 6 or 8 ticket max INCREASES my chances. We had 8 different people on phones/cellphones and internet Saturday. Only would have taken ONE person to get through for all of us to go.

daddymention · Post by **daddymention** » March 10, 2003 2:33 pm

We are all fans, and we all share the frustration of getting tickets, especially on the east coast...unfortunately there is no quick fix to the ticket problems....hopefully fans will sell to other fans at face value, yet that won't be able to satisfy or take care of everyone that wants to go since the demand outweighs the number of seats....my suggestion is to move to San Diego, where you can get lawn seats up to 3 weeks after tickets go on sale...

Good luck to those who have to struggle for tickets year after year....sincerely...

Ceol na Mara · Post by **Ceol na Mara** » March 10, 2003 3:50 pm

Frosted Fins, bite your tongue!! I don't think the solution is for Jimmy to stop touring. Every time I read Lee's words that Jimmy only has about ten more years of touring left, I know he's right and I feel so awful.

I happen to have no problem with brokers, as long as it is above board. This is a letter I just emailed to the National Association of Ticket Brokers. I will probably send a copy of it to the NJ Attorney General. I don't think it's enough for us to b**** and moan about it to each other, and I really don't think it's Jimmy's problem.

"Dear Sir or Madam:

I am addressing this to you as counsel for National Association of Ticket Brokers (you are the only one with an email address). If this would be better being sent to someone else at the organization, I would appreciate it if you would forward it to him/her.

Saturday, March 8, 2003, tickets to Jimmy Buffett concerts in various venues went on sale at 10:00 am through Ticketmaster. By 10:01 all that were available were lawn seats. That seems just a little bit suspicious. I can understand that he is very popular, but 1 minute? I don't think the phone lines, online and Ticketmaster outlets could even handle that kind of volume in 1 minute. I am a member of a Buffett chatgroup with over 3,000 members, and most people got closed out. They couldn't even get lawn seats, even though they were trying online and by phone since 10:00. Of the few who did get seats, no one got seats in the pit or orchestra.

But strangely enough, the brokers all have excellent seats. They've got lots of pit and orchestra, eight seats right next to one another. Gee, I wonder how they managed such luck. These lucky brokers are now selling orchestra tickets for over $1,600 per ticket, and pit for almost $1,900.

I have no problem with ticket brokering. We still live in a capitalistic society, and people are entitled to make a profit. Even though I live and breathe Buffett, his concerts are not actually necessary for my life's sustenance. It's not like making a killing on air or water. But what I do have a problem with, what I have a big problem with, is deception or even fraud. Are some brokers cutting under the table deals with Ticketmaster or Ticketmaster employees to get tickets before they actually go on sale? Ticketmaster says that all tickets go on sale at the same time, whether to general public or to brokers. If that is not the case, then they should say so. I also realize that the band itself gets the best tickets for family, friends, business associates. But they don't get three quarters of the stadium.

The fans would like a level playing field. I am reminded of the days of payola in the music business. At that time it was agreed (by way of U.S. House of Representative Oversight Subcommittee investigations) that deejays should not take gifts from record companies in return for playing their records on their shows. I think that same principal applies here. If Ticketmaster or any other ticket service or their employees are taking gratuities from brokers, and I do say "if", to sell them blocks of tickets ahead of their scheduled release, or in some way setting them aside for the brokers, the same principles of commercial bribery would exist.

I am requesting that NATB, which is an ethical organization, investigate this situation, and correct any misconduct, if any.

Thank you.

Sincerely,"

Jenaideu · Post by **Jenaideu** » March 10, 2003 4:01 pm

I agree with everyone who has made the point that this is not a problem that Jimmy can help much with. Most of our issues are due to Ticketmaster's policies and the fact that those b**tards can't handle the volume they get.

Ticket brokers and scalpers are a major problem, but raising ticket prices or lower ticket allowances WILL ONLY MAKE IT WORSE for us!!!! And selling only in the local area for the first 10 minutes?! Come on!... Do you realize how these brokers work? These sorts of tactics are not going to "confuse" them... this is what they do and they will find ways to do it.

Think about it...

I agree that the system s**ks right now, ticketmaster, E-bay, brokers, and scalpers are the ones to blame. The system is run by them and artists and fans can protest and demand change, but it's unlikely to happen. Other artists, like Pearl Jam, have come out against Ticketmaster, but guess who's tickets were sold there for the Atlanta show last month?? The venues control how the show is sold...

Jenaideu · Post by **Jenaideu** » March 10, 2003 4:04 pm

Ceol na Mara: YES!

puckhead · Post by **puckhead** » March 10, 2003 4:45 pm

Jenaideu wrote: Other artists, like Pearl Jam, have come out against Ticketmaster, but guess who's tickets were sold there for the Atlanta show last month?? The venues control how the show is sold...

But Pearl Jam also sets a large number of tickets aside for members of their fan club. This allows members to get tickets from the club rather then through ticketmaster.

Why couldn't Jimmy organize a fan club through his website and therefore we could all request tickets prior to them going on-sale. I understand that it is usually a lottery system, and that you would not always be guaranteed tickets, but it may increase the odds. I would rather pay Jimmy $50 a year to belong to his club then a scapler $150 for a ticket.

Either way, no point in complaining, becuase you are all right, scalpers will always find away, and we just have to deal with it and except the fact that if we really want to go we'll have to pay the price.

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » March 10, 2003 4:59 pm

Does anyone remember when Pearl Jam went before congress about the ticketmaster monopoly? Remember how the senators determined that there was no monopoly. Then Pearl Jam got blackballed from most major venues and fell off the radar.

Yes, they're back playing now. Yes, they do have a lottery at some venues. But they also sell tickets through TM. The system sucks that much - even those who HAD the power and the money to try to fix it couldn't.

Besides the obvious problems with the TM/CC monopoly, there's also just too damned many of us Parrotheads...

Look at it this way:

Jimmy plays 33 shows with an average capacity of 20,000.

That's 660,000 tickets to see Jimmy. Pretend that every one of them is available to us (big stretch there but...)

Now consider that Beaches, Boats, Bars, Ballads has been certified quadruple platinum. That means they sold 4,000,000. Let's assume that every parrothead owns one and only one. Now some of you may own two, but some of youmay have gotten them through record clubs which may or may not count towards sales, depending on what price they were sold for. Never mind that some may own one copy and have two parrotheads in the house.

So we're looking at 4,000,000 parrotheads.

Now if only 50 percent of those parrotheads want to go BY THEMSELVES to ONLY ONE SHOW that means we have 2,000,000 parrotheads vying for 660,000 seats.

Statistcially speaking, that means chances are you're only going to get tickets once every 3 years. Or, another way: 67% of the parrotheads are going to be p*** off every year.

Now factor in that maybe you want to bring a date or maybe you want to go to more than one show and your odds lessen.

Maybe we should all go to only one JB show a year, thus increasing the chances for others to get tickets....