Buffett to Perform During Vote for Change Tour

a1aara · Post by **a1aara** » August 11, 2004 10:33 am

I know a lot of Republicans that don't care for Bush. Do Republicans honestly think that he is the best canidate for the job? I'm not sure either canadate would be my pick if I had other legitimate canidates to choose from?

ph4ever · Post by **ph4ever** » August 11, 2004 10:35 am

tommcat327 wrote:
Key Lime Lee wrote:But alas, he'd never be the democratic nominee because he's black.
OR MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE HE'S SUCH A WINGNUT?

he's one of these???

tommcat327 · Post by **tommcat327** » August 11, 2004 10:41 am

ph4ever wrote:
tommcat327 wrote:
Key Lime Lee wrote:But alas, he'd never be the democratic nominee because he's black.
OR MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE HE'S SUCH A WINGNUT?

he's one of these???

YES,JUST A DIFFERENT COLOR

UWParrot · Post by **UWParrot** » August 11, 2004 10:48 am

a1aara wrote:I saw a bumper sticker that stated:

LICK BUSH
BEAT DICK

Hilarious (hear the sarcasm?)

Coconuts · Post by **Coconuts** » August 11, 2004 11:14 am

a1aara wrote:I saw a bumper sticker that stated:

LICK BUSH
BEAT DICK

I love it, but not as much as the

Only in America:
Lesbians Against Bush
Gays Against Dick

t shirt at Pride Fest.

Caribbean Soul Man · Post by **Caribbean Soul Man** » August 11, 2004 1:35 pm

tommcat327 wrote:
Key Lime Lee wrote:But alas, he'd never be the democratic nominee because he's black.
OR MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE HE'S SUCH A WINGNUT?

Agreed - I could definitely see myself voting for Condoleeza Rice or maybe even Colin Powell although I'm not always certain where he stands regarding issues. However, there are MANY issues which would prevent me from ever even considering the Reverend Al for public office and the color of his skin is NOT one of them.

Coconuts · Post by **Coconuts** » August 11, 2004 2:00 pm

Caribbean Soul Man wrote:
tommcat327 wrote:
Key Lime Lee wrote:But alas, he'd never be the democratic nominee because he's black.
OR MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE HE'S SUCH A WINGNUT?
Agreed - I could definitely see myself voting for Condoleeza Rice or maybe even Colin Powell although I'm not always certain where he stands regarding issues. However, there are MANY issues which would prevent me from ever even considering the Reverend Al for public office and the color of his skin is NOT one of them.

Sort of agreed, only I wouldn't vote for anyone who had an oil tanker named after them. I would vote for Powell in a heartbeat, but I do think he could be another Carter- great man, horrible politician.

tommcat327 · Post by **tommcat327** » August 11, 2004 2:02 pm

Coconuts wrote:
Caribbean Soul Man wrote:
tommcat327 wrote:
Key Lime Lee wrote:But alas, he'd never be the democratic nominee because he's black.
OR MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE HE'S SUCH A WINGNUT?
Agreed - I could definitely see myself voting for Condoleeza Rice or maybe even Colin Powell although I'm not always certain where he stands regarding issues. However, there are MANY issues which would prevent me from ever even considering the Reverend Al for public office and the color of his skin is NOT one of them.
Sort of agreed, only I wouldn't vote for anyone who had an oil tanker named after them. I would vote for Powell in a heartbeat, but I do think he could be another Carter- great man, horrible politician.

THATS STILL BETTER THAN A BAD PERSON/BAD LIAR/LAWYER/PRESIDENT

Caribbean Soul Man · Post by **Caribbean Soul Man** » August 11, 2004 2:18 pm

Key Lime Lee wrote:I hear the term "liberal" thrown around a lot and am genuinely curious about what folks think it means...

Lee,
This may be overly simplified because there are obviously several different dimensions to this question but in recent years, this is the way I would differentiate the two philosophies:

Liberals for the most part believe that America is great because of our government and that the U.S. Government is (effectively) what creates jobs, moves the economy, etc.

Conservatives for the most part believe that America is great because of the American People - that is to say that America is great in spite of the government. True Conservatives do not believe it is the role of government to create jobs or move the economy; the government should create an environment which allows both small and large businesses to invest and grow the economy which, in turn, leads to job creation.

Conservatives advocate personal freedom (especially personal property rights) and personal responsibility. We all make an endless series of life choices which lead us to our eventual circumstances (education, career paths, where we choose to live, when and how many children we have, etc.). Conservatives do not believe it is the responsibility of the government to solve all of the problems we encounter as a result of our decisions.

Perhaps even more relevant to today is the disagreement of whether a U.S. President should be beholden to the U.N. when it comes to issues of OUR national security. Clearly, the U.N. is not concerned with what is in our best interest as a country. And when they (U.N.) have been identified as an organization full of corruption up to, and including the highest levels of administration (can anyone say Oil for Food?), I'm surprised anyone (regardless of party affiliation) would advocate that they assume a broader role in anything as important as the rebuilding of Iraq.

I am not one who believes that all liberals hate America or don't care about national security, etc. But by the same token, it would be just as innaccurate for liberals to insinuate that conservatives don't care about clean water, air, the elderly, etc. We probably have many similarities in our visions for America; it's more a philosophical question of priorities and how to go about realizing that vision.

Coconuts · Post by **Coconuts** » August 11, 2004 2:37 pm

Caribbean Soul Man wrote:Lee,
This may be overly simplified because there are obviously several different dimensions to this question but in recent years, this is the way I would differentiate the two philosophies:

Liberals for the most part believe that America is great because of our government and that the U.S. Government is (effectively) what creates jobs, moves the economy, etc.

Conservatives for the most part believe that America is great because of the American People - that is to say that America is great in spite of the government. True Conservatives do not believe it is the role of government to create jobs or move the economy; the government should create an environment which allows both small and large businesses to invest and grow the economy which, in turn, leads to job creation.

Conservatives advocate personal freedom (especially personal property rights) and personal responsibility. We all make an endless series of life choices which lead us to our eventual circumstances (education, career paths, where we choose to live, when and how many children we have, etc.). Conservatives do not believe it is the responsibility of the government to solve all of the problems we encounter as a result of our decisions.

Perhaps even more relevant to today is the disagreement of whether a U.S. President should be beholden to the U.N. when it comes to issues of OUR national security. Clearly, the U.N. is not concerned with what is in our best interest as a country. And when they (U.N.) have been identified as an organization full of corruption up to, and including the highest levels of administration (can anyone say Oil for Food?), I'm surprised anyone (regardless of party affiliation) would advocate that they assume a broader role in anything as important as the rebuilding of Iraq.

I am not one who believes that all liberals hate America or don't care about national security, etc. But by the same token, it would be just as innaccurate for liberals to insinuate that conservatives don't care about clean water, air, the elderly, etc. We probably have many similarities in our visions for America; it's more a philosophical question of priorities and how to go about realizing that vision.

This is scary, by your definition I'm a conservative.

(Seriously, I'm as socially liberal as they come, but a centrist when comes to the econmy- was the Clinton boom the product of a Dem controlled congress, or Rep controlled- no one really knows, but both side will certainly try to claim it!) But I certainly agree with the last paragraph.

Caribbean Soul Man · Post by **Caribbean Soul Man** » August 11, 2004 2:44 pm

Coconuts wrote:This is scary, by your definition I'm a conservative. (Seriously, I'm as socially liberal as they come, but a centrist when comes to the econmy- was the Clinton boom the product of a Dem controlled congress, or Rep controlled- no one really knows, but both side will certainly try to claim it!) But I certainly agree with the last paragraph.

I think in many ways Clinton did try to get out of the way and let the economy grow. Probably one of the better decisions he made.

LIPH · Post by **LIPH** » August 11, 2004 2:49 pm

I admit this is oversimplified but I think the Clinton boom was due in large part to the dot com bubble. As soon as all those overpriced internet stocks crashed and burned the economy went in the crapper.

a1aara · Post by **a1aara** » August 11, 2004 3:25 pm

Caribbean Soul Man wrote:

Conservatives advocate personal freedom (especially personal property rights) and personal responsibility. We all make an endless series of life choices which lead us to our eventual circumstances (education, career paths, where we choose to live, when and how many children we have, etc.). Conservatives do not believe it is the responsibility of the government to solve all of the problems we encounter as a result of our decisions.

I don't think this is the case lately. It seems that Conservatives want to restrict our personal freedoms. Everything from Abortion, to Stem Cell, to what you are hearing on Morning radio. This very administration have asked Americans to give up numerous personal freedoms in this war on terror.

Caribbean Soul Man · Post by **Caribbean Soul Man** » August 11, 2004 4:24 pm

a1aara wrote:Caribbean Soul Man wrote:

Conservatives advocate personal freedom (especially personal property rights) and personal responsibility. We all make an endless series of life choices which lead us to our eventual circumstances (education, career paths, where we choose to live, when and how many children we have, etc.). Conservatives do not believe it is the responsibility of the government to solve all of the problems we encounter as a result of our decisions.

I don't think this is the case lately. It seems that Conservatives want to restrict our personal freedoms. Everything from Abortion, to Stem Cell, to what you are hearing on Morning radio. This very administration have asked Americans to give up numerous personal freedoms in this war on terror.

I think the stance individuals choose on abortion or stem cell research is probably more of a moral issue than political. Personally I don't think abortion should illegal but I don't want my tax dollars funding it (kindof back to the personal responsibility issue). As far as stem cell research goes, we have donated cord blood from each of our 3 children but I would have reservations about the type of stem cell research which would harvest cells from fetuses. In other words, I think it depends on where the cells are coming from. I don't know if "W" has anything to do with the new push for decency from the FCC but I think the left is also involved in surpressing free speech when it disagrees with their positions. I'm generally against censorship because I can always change the channel but it can certainly be an issue when you're driving down the road w/ the keets, listening to the radio, and all of the sudden Camel Toe comes on.

You'll have a tough time finding a conservative who wants to tell you that you can't use your own property in the way you wish because of the spotted fuzzy wax worm fly larvae which are breeding there.

As far as Patriot Act issues, we live in a different world now (that's obvious) and I'm all for common sense decisions regarding homeland security but I'm not an advocate of giving up freedom for security.

rednekkPH · Post by **rednekkPH** » August 11, 2004 4:27 pm

Caribbean Soul Man wrote:the spotted fuzzy wax worm fly larvae

Ooh...that sounds like great trout bait!

weirdo0521 · Post by **weirdo0521** » August 11, 2004 4:31 pm

Still checking...any word if JB& the CRB are playing any of the dates.I'm guessing no

live2ski · Post by **live2ski** » August 11, 2004 4:49 pm

Key Lime Lee wrote: I hear the term "liberal" thrown around a lot and am genuinely curious about what folks think it means...

In my opinion, the term Liberal is used too much, and does not accurately describe where those who we consider liberals are today. I define this as New liberalism Or Modern Liberalism Which is a stance in political economy that argues for wide-ranging government regulation and hands on, extensive intervention in economy.

Socially it is a stance in universal policies, based on the idea that the society has no right to moralize its populace, but the society has tasks to guarantee equal opportunities for each of its citizens.

Just my .02

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » August 11, 2004 5:35 pm

I don't have time to reply right now but...

THANK YOU!

So refreshing to see folks expressing well thought out opinions without animosity.

Regarding Rev. Al - I don't think most folks here would have a problem voting for a president who was black, but I have my doubts about whether the nation, as a whole, is ready for it. Racism still runs pretty deep. But then I'm not sure you could feasably elect a Jew as president either in this day and age.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying I don't think the country is that progressive.

phenwayparrothead · Post by **phenwayparrothead** » August 12, 2004 12:39 am

I would agree to an extent that our nation is not ready for a black president. At the same time there hasn't been an African American to run since Jesse Jackson whose really felt winning was a goal. I do not think Sharpton really felt he had a shot at winning the democratic vote, nevermind the presidency, he just wanted to get his views out there. I think the left has in a way tried to take advantage of African American politicians such as Sharpton, using him to gain African American voters. I do think within the next 20 years(next 5 elections) we are going to see either an African American President, or a Woman (possibly Hillary in 08).

phenwayparrothead · Post by **phenwayparrothead** » August 12, 2004 12:40 am

thats supposed to say 08 not the smiley face