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SuperTrooper wrote:Restricting who votes based on some arbitrary qualification method is a slippery slope away from democracy. I'm sorry that you feel "insulted" that people who aren't involved in politics to your degree get to vote. Since we are human beings, it wouldn't take long for someone to use a position of power to prevent the opposition from voting.

rednekkPH wrote:Oh well, it was a good debate while it lasted. Since we are gonna start calling names and levelling allegations of bigotry, I'm bowing out here. Sorry, BB - I was enjoying our dialogue - maybe we can continue "over there".

Coconuts wrote:
Not speaking the language has nothing to do with being lazy or unproductive. These people left their homes and usually their families because they've dreamt of the lives they could make here and the freedoms we take for granted

buffettbride wrote:
Spanish/English simply because of the population in our country is a pleasant mix of both. I think you probably could smash the ATM, but then you might be put in jail with the Mexicans and that would be just horrifying for you, I'm sure.

I can sympathize with your frustration and do see your true point of view, and I have felt frustrated at times because it was difficult to communicate with a gas station clerk or a janitor in my building. But it does not make them bad people or less deserving of an education--and if they are Americans...they should have (and do have) the right to vote.

One thing I have never done is walked the shoes of a teacher or education administration, so unfortunately I can't speak for them.

rednekkPH wrote:

buffettbride wrote:What was their chance to learn? A 3rd rate public school where teachers make less than a retail store clerk and student-teacher ratios are almost 40-1? How is that a chance?

I am SO sick of the whining about these kinds of schools. These kids get a sh*tty education because they are more interested in selling crack, getting knocked up at 15 and shooting anyone that looks at them wrong - not because the teachers or the administration doesn't care. Maybe the district could spend more on books and teachers' salaries if they didn't have to hire armed security guards and install metal detectors. The kids turned the schools into what they are.

Coconuts wrote:
Let us know if this debate will make you late for your Klan meeting.

Coconuts wrote:Let us know if this debate will make you late for your Klan meeting.

phtnt wrote:most people give me a hard time because I don't vote. I'm glad you guy's respect my right to not have an opinion on which crooked politician holds office.

Big Phan wrote:

rednekkPH wrote:

buffettbride wrote:What was their chance to learn? A 3rd rate public school where teachers make less than a retail store clerk and student-teacher ratios are almost 40-1? How is that a chance?

I am SO sick of the whining about these kinds of schools. These kids get a sh*tty education because they are more interested in selling crack, getting knocked up at 15 and shooting anyone that looks at them wrong - not because the teachers or the administration doesn't care. Maybe the district could spend more on books and teachers' salaries if they didn't have to hire armed security guards and install metal detectors. The kids turned the schools into what they are.

As a public school educator - thank you, thank you, thank you - for not blaming the plight of school systems on teachers! I don't think I have ever heard anyone in a conversation about the state of schools say (type) that the problems MIGHT be related to shortcomings of others besides the teachers. We have teachers who shouldn't be teaching, I realize that, but the majority of us put our heart and soul into the job. Thanks for making your POV public!

live2ski wrote: My best friend is a public educator. I blame parents more than teachers.

tommcat327 wrote:

SuperTrooper wrote:Restricting who votes based on some arbitrary qualification method is a slippery slope away from democracy. I'm sorry that you feel "insulted" that people who aren't involved in politics to your degree get to vote. Since we are human beings, it wouldn't take long for someone to use a position of power to prevent the opposition from voting.

i'm not involved in politics like frank,as a matter of fact i hate politicians for the most part,but i too feel insulted knowing that my vote could be cancelled out by a bunch of idiots who will vote for whoever jesse jackson or farrakahn tells them to.

again,this could all be solved by putting me in charge

rednekkPH wrote:voting should not be a right, it should be a privilege earned by educating oneself about the issues.

Coconuts wrote:

rednekkPH wrote:

RinglingRingling wrote:are you out of your mind? Why not just return to the era of the damn poll tax and literacy tests.

Jeeeez.

Personally, I think the literacy test is a great idea, although not in the racial context it was originally implemented. I'm not comfortable with the future of our country being at least partially decided by people who can't read and comprehend.

I understand where you're coming from, but that's an entirely too slippery slope- I know a lot of very intelligent people who could care less about politics and just vote along party lines. Should they be excluded?

SuperTrooper wrote:Your vote isn't "cancelled out". Democracy isn't a zero-sum game, it is the cumulative expression of the will of the people. Your vote is your OPINION and it counts as much as mine. How I arrive at my vote is none of your concern.

Think of it this way: you and LEE vote in the next election. You are both well informed and involved, but you arrive at different choices. Each of your votes stands on its own in the final total. As do the votes of the uninformed on each side of the issue.

buffettbride wrote:

Coconuts wrote:
What part of "All men are created equal" are you having a problem with?! Not trying to start a fight, but you're scaring me.

<<<I'm a bit askeered myself>>>>

tommcat327 wrote:

buffettbride wrote: What was their chance to learn? A 3rd rate public school where teachers make less than a retail store clerk and student-teacher ratios are almost 40-1? How is that a chance?

I don't think I should be punished because I did not get an equal education to another. I could possibly think about supporting where you are coming from if you can come up with a way to provide equal education to all Americans.

if the schools have ever graduated an underpriveledged kid and even one has gone on to something better than that tells me that it's possible and can be done by others.so saying that because someone lives in the inner city is the reason they cant speak english is just wrong.maybe if those schools taught in ENGLISH they would be able to get a job and make something of themselves.the next town over from here they teach english class in spanish.to make it easier for them to graduate

12vmanRick wrote:

buffettbride wrote:

Coconuts wrote:
What part of "All men are created equal" are you having a problem with?! Not trying to start a fight, but you're scaring me.

<<<I'm a bit askeered myself>>>>

If you think everyone was created equal then you surely have blinders on.. not meaning to be an ass here but come on.. there are many levels of intelligence, money, health.. etc.

12vmanRick wrote:

buffettbride wrote:

Coconuts wrote:
What part of "All men are created equal" are you having a problem with?! Not trying to start a fight, but you're scaring me.

<<<I'm a bit askeered myself>>>>

If you think everyone was created equal then you surely have blinders on.. not meaning to be an ass here but come on.. there are many levels of intelligence, money, health.. etc.