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12vmanRick wrote:

RinglingRingling wrote:

12vmanRick wrote:I dont care if they have food stamps as long as they are willing to give up their right to VOTE if they get any type of goverment assistance

are you out of your mind? Why not just return to the era of the damn poll tax and literacy tests.

Jeeeez.

Do you really think we are that far away? And before commenting on one statement I made, read further and see my explanation/thought about it.

I understand what you are saying... you do realize the longterm implications of the "take money from the government, lose the right to vote"... I don't think you see all the possible applications of the ban. Hence, it is a very slippery slope, and ultimately removes any possibility of a democracy.

CaptainP wrote:My wife worked with a girl who would come in once a month and say, "I got my child-support payment today! I'm going shopping, theres this great new leather jacket I want!".


Isn't that money supposed to be for the child?

(That would be the child that she brought in to visit work, and the kid (still in diapers) STUNK of cigarette smoke.)

It is supposed to be for the child, and this is a perfect example of why teaching abstinence as the only method of birth control (it is one, but not every teenager is realistically going to practice it) is doomed to failure.

Don't get me wrong: You have to prove proficiency with a handgun for a concealed carry permit (and undergo a lot of checks into your background); you have to prove a knowledge of the basic traffic laws and proficiency with a vehicle to get a driver's license. I have no problem with requiring licensing and testing, to prove that you are able to raise a child (because a kid is a lot more dangerous in the long run than a car, or guy with a handgun and a couple magazines)....

RinglingRingling wrote:It is supposed to be for the child, and this is a perfect example of why teaching abstinence as the only method of birth control (it is one, but not every teenager is realistically going to practice it) is doomed to failure.

Don't get me wrong: You have to prove proficiency with a handgun for a concealed carry permit (and undergo a lot of checks into your background)

You don't have to prove proficiency in Indiana, you just have to have $50 and pass a background check.

Coconuts wrote:

RinglingRingling wrote:It is supposed to be for the child, and this is a perfect example of why teaching abstinence as the only method of birth control (it is one, but not every teenager is realistically going to practice it) is doomed to failure.

Don't get me wrong: You have to prove proficiency with a handgun for a concealed carry permit (and undergo a lot of checks into your background)

You don't have to prove proficiency in Indiana, you just have to have $50 and pass a background check.

you dont have to do anything in VT,just be 18 and you can carry concealed or open.and funny thing is that vermont has one of the lowest rates for violent crime with a gun per capita
yet MA has one of the highest with all kinds of ridiculous anti gun owner laws

tommcat327 wrote:and funny thing is that vermont has one of the lowest rates for violent crime with a gun per capita
yet MA has one of the highest with all kinds of ridiculous anti gun owner laws

Why do you think that is Tomm?

rednekkPH wrote:

buffettbride wrote:Also...what exactly is the plan for educating these not-so-smart folks so they are ABLE to pass your voting test? I know I get confused at the polls some times regarding the language that is used on a particular referendum or bill. Who's supposed to teach us this stuff? I am a pretty smart cookie, but I don't always understand it.

There is no plan for educating the ignorant. They had their chance to learn. If they chose to ignore the opportunity then, they can live with the consequences now.

and the point was raised: what if you are in a school district where, for whatever reason, you did not receive the same opportunities that one does in an affluent suburban district where the textbooks are not 20 years old, and the physical plant is not shot to hell? Is that ignorance on the part of the student, or is that failure on the part of the school district for whatever reason? Do you condemn those folks as "ignorant" and create a two tier society where based on sheer luck, you might live where you have a chance, or you are automatically written off because your grandparents stayed on a farm in a rural area?

There are a few more factors than the simple cut-and-dried one you present.

Coconuts wrote:

RinglingRingling wrote:It is supposed to be for the child, and this is a perfect example of why teaching abstinence as the only method of birth control (it is one, but not every teenager is realistically going to practice it) is doomed to failure.

Don't get me wrong: You have to prove proficiency with a handgun for a concealed carry permit (and undergo a lot of checks into your background)

You don't have to prove proficiency in Indiana, you just have to have $50 and pass a background check.

OH requires a cert. course, payment of a fee, background check, etc.

Now we are on to the right to be armed. I have a glock 40 caliber and two shotguns that remain loaded and ready at all times. I often work in low income, high crime areas and am forbidden from carrying a weapon, even though I have controlled drugs onboard at all times. I am permitted to defend my home, but I am not allowed to protect myself at work. Again, I grew up in a rural area with a bad school and came out just fine due to dilligent PARENTS.

tommcat327 wrote:

SuperTrooper wrote:Restricting who votes based on some arbitrary qualification method is a slippery slope away from democracy. I'm sorry that you feel "insulted" that people who aren't involved in politics to your degree get to vote. Since we are human beings, it wouldn't take long for someone to use a position of power to prevent the opposition from voting.

i'm not involved in politics like frank,as a matter of fact i hate politicians for the most part,but i too feel insulted knowing that my vote could be cancelled out by a bunch of idiots who will vote for whoever jesse jackson or farrakahn tells them to.

again,this could all be solved by putting me in charge

And I kinda resent my vote, fairly informed, being cancelled out by the Dittoheads who take whatever Rush and Falwell tell them, and march to the voting booth with the light of Jesus (or fanaticism) in their eyes too

Key Lime Lee wrote:

tommcat327 wrote:and funny thing is that vermont has one of the lowest rates for violent crime with a gun per capita
yet MA has one of the highest with all kinds of ridiculous anti gun owner laws

Why do you think that is Tomm?

i have some ideas but i dont know for sure.the only thing i think it proves is that anti gun laws dont work.criminals will commit crimes no matter how many laws are in place to limit my rights.
the way i look at is if someone is willing to break the biggest most important law we have(murder) why would they care if they do it without a permit or with an illegal gun?its not like someone was going to commit murder and then stopped after he realized he didnt have the proper license to carry a weapon yet i have to pay alot of money,take classes and deal with all kinds of hassles to carry in this stupid state

irishcajunphan wrote: I have a glock 40 caliber and two shotguns that remain loaded and ready at all times.

thats illegal here

Ok gonna pipe in here, After 6th grade I went to a "rough"
school over 70% from 7th to 8th grade did time, poverty??
in my home room there were 3 maybe 5 of us that
did not have lunch tickets. I saw ODs my first week
now some of this was the parents fault mostly White trash
with some Mexican and east Indians mixed in with a smattering
of others. the Mexican kids had a Translater. they got better
grades, East Indians? way better grade.Why? one of the kids blew it
during an arguement and shouted. Our translater is a
teacher she gives us the answers. not a smart thing to say
bad situation for years. I still have issues with "help" for
the kids that don't speak english.or the Adults that need "help"
with a Driving test.

Our first day of High School we were told by the guidence dude.
"don't look to go to college, not gonna happen, we have a J/C
in town. learn to weld or paint cars that will do. and the lucky ones
will get city/county/state jobs. or the Armed Services are always
hiring" Uh thanks for that. it is a cycle and not easly (sp) broken
but most of those folks worked and were on "relief"
sorry saw way too many cases of abuse.
Yes some people need help and yes often (and this stinks) those
that need help the most can't get it . I know it's not all the schools
fault but burnout is rampant in those areas. Maybe a rotation system??
one years in two out???

Just my 2 cents

BTW Irish? still proud of you!!

BTW Irish? still proud of you!!

Thank you! I didn't mean to set off a firestorm on the boards, really! Just wanted opinions outside of my area. I believe I did the right thing in speaking out due to the conversations and threads sparked by it. By the way, those of you in Florida, y'all doing ok? Charley turned into a badda$$ storm. I grew up dealing with hurricanes and follow them avidly, must be my black sense of humor! I had an idea a few weeks ago, instead of masking tape on windows, use painter's tape. It comes off easier. Actually, my family has special boards for all our windows. Way off topic, but I want to make sure you guys are all doing well!

RinglingRingling wrote:

tommcat327 wrote:

SuperTrooper wrote:Restricting who votes based on some arbitrary qualification method is a slippery slope away from democracy. I'm sorry that you feel "insulted" that people who aren't involved in politics to your degree get to vote. Since we are human beings, it wouldn't take long for someone to use a position of power to prevent the opposition from voting.

i'm not involved in politics like frank,as a matter of fact i hate politicians for the most part,but i too feel insulted knowing that my vote could be cancelled out by a bunch of idiots who will vote for whoever jesse jackson or farrakahn tells them to.

again,this could all be solved by putting me in charge

And I kinda resent my vote, fairly informed, being cancelled out by the Dittoheads who take whatever Rush and Falwell tell them, and march to the voting booth with the light of Jesus (or fanaticism) in their eyes too

Good point
I thought the same thing when I read that.
It goes both ways

RinglingRingling wrote:

12vmanRick wrote:

RinglingRingling wrote:

12vmanRick wrote:I dont care if they have food stamps as long as they are willing to give up their right to VOTE if they get any type of goverment assistance

are you out of your mind? Why not just return to the era of the damn poll tax and literacy tests.

Jeeeez.

Do you really think we are that far away? And before commenting on one statement I made, read further and see my explanation/thought about it.

I understand what you are saying... you do realize the longterm implications of the "take money from the government, lose the right to vote"... I don't think you see all the possible applications of the ban. Hence, it is a very slippery slope, and ultimately removes any possibility of a democracy.

Thanks for your reply and reread. I know what you are saying. It was only a thought.

I want to comment ... on the child support

but I cant


DRAT

however, we dont have food stamps here. But people can get a voucher from the Salvation Army for food from their fundraising. I shop at the supermarket near the base and see these people shopping there a fair bit.

I have seen where their voucher is for say $100.00 and their groceries come to $95 and they work out what they can spend the other $5 with ...

Most of the time - it goes on junk food that is more expensive or bottles of coke - why not get milk or fruit or something that goes further for the $$$

I know there are genuine people that are in need - but some people just do abuse the system unfortunately.

semitruths wrote: *AND* also possibly regulating things like the amount of ‘snack’ items purchased. You will always have the debate regarding what is acceptable to purchase …. but I think this is a way to control it.

big hat carmen ... I would really like to hear your opinion on this.

1. Thanks, semitruths, for asking my opinion.
2. While I agree in theory with limitations on items that can be bought with food stamps, I have to ask if the effort is worth the payoff. Most of the food stamp recepitents that I see, try to follow the rules to the best of their ability. Any changes in benefit structure cost millions of dollars and that funding moves away from needy persons. I do not view the issue of what is purchased with the food stamps as abuse of the system. I would rather see our efforts directed at genuine abuse -- I once had a client, a single female, who reported to the welfare agency that she had 8 people living in her household, that is true abuse. Abuse is trading food stamps for crack or hookers.
3. The welfare system has changed greatly, thanks to the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act of 1996, benefits have a 60 month maximum. In Ohio, people are not getting rich on state benefits. Often, the money being used for luxury items comes from other sources, the drug trade and prostitution. These are not social welfare issues; they are law enforcement issues.
4. SSI, Supplemental Security Income, federal welfare is capped at the federal benefit rate of $564/month. That is not my idea of a high living standard.
5. For every abuse situation or people making poor nutrition choices, there are many people who depend on the system for their basic existence. I could tell hundreds of stories concerning successful transitions from the welfare system, but it seems that few want to hear those stories. Thanks for listening, Terri

Wow! I missed a lot here today!

I'm just going to pipe in on a couple issues that were raised several pages back.

1) Language
2) Public Schools
3) Klan

1) BB: The national language of the United States of America is English. NOT Spanish. Now I have made an effort to learn Spanish, as I work with approximately 20 mexican or Puerto Rican born employees. But the ones I respect have made an effort to learn English. They are attempting to adapt to their surroundings, not expecting their surroundings to adapt to them.

2) Public Schools. Don't blame the teachers. At least they are there, and believe me, they appreciate it when a student actually makes the effort to learn! You have to WANT to learn, otherwise even the most patient teacher won't be effective!

3) Whoever brought up the KKK? What was that about? This was a debate about people below the poverty line. Not one word had been mentioned up to that point about black or white. It's that racist attitude that makes it so hard to get past skin color in this country. People like you keep bringing it up when it isn't there.

OK....that's my opinion. I'm prepared for it to be attacked....Fire away!

but race was indeed brought up

the "large black family" with food stamps (if they were white would that have been mentioned)
If I were black on here this would offend me, but being that that I'm white and my wife is black it is offensive anyway.

"Puerto Ricans just take our welfare"
The comment about "Idiots who vote for whoever Al Sharton, Farakahn, and Jesse Jackson", mostly black and everyone knows this.
I mean come on just say it , ya know you want to.

Some people should realize that some of the people or races they are talking about could be on here and how could these comments not be offensive when you're stereotyping or profiling?
From my unique perspective and experiences I've seen it a million times and am pretty good at reading between the lines.

I am not going to read back through all of this. I am sure some very valid points were made on both sides of the issue. Its the stoopid comments that are on both sides of the issue I choose to not read.

Original topic:

food Stamps, yes there is fraud. yes there are people who take advantage of the system. However there are just as many grossly rich people, who's tax scams cost us every day a million times more than what the few people on foods stamps may or may not be costing all of us rightous tax payers

However, if you ever have a wife, three children and get "downsized" because your 300% profit margin was below what stock analysts had predicted. if you ever spend 9 months unemployed. If you ever go weeks without serving a meat based food item in your house, you will know first hand like I what a necessary evil they are. It never failed, every time we used them, someone we knew was in the line before or after us and just gave us a look that would make you want to crawl in a hole and die. Do you know what it is like to grocery shop at the Walmart Supercenter at 3:30 am so that nobody will see how you HAVE to pay for the food your family needs for basic survival. I do.

I do not disagree with the basic premis. Food stamps should be limited to basic food items (within reason) and hygene items. Is the system, government flawed and need some fine tuning? Oh course. But it is incumbent on us as a society to care for those that can't. Do some people take advantage, of course they do.But from the comfort of our little computer rooms with the privilage we have around us, is it our place to judge. That woman with the $26 crab legs. Do you know her story? could that have been the first non-spaghetti-o meal for her family in months? could that have been a celebration using up the last of their food stamps because gainful employment was found? (I did it too) We do not know the specifics, things are not always what they appear on the surface. It is not our place to judge

For every case you can mention of abuse, there are 1000 people like Mrs Bear and I who used them, were purposely humiliated by certain individuals for using them, yet only used them in the manner they were intended.