New Pledge of Allegiance

captainjoe · Post by **captainjoe** » November 2, 2004 2:44 pm

Sam wrote: How about : "We hold these truths to be self evident, that All Men are created equal and endowed with certain inalieanble Rights by their CREATOR......."?

You just proved our point,

Rights by their CREATOR......."

They do not point out God, or Allah or anyone else. They left it nonspecific for a reason.

meisinger · Post by **meisinger** » November 2, 2004 2:51 pm

I think Sam is pulling our leg with these posts. Bravo. Very funny stuff.

PHBeerman · Post by **PHBeerman** » November 2, 2004 2:53 pm

meisinger wrote:I think Sam is pulling our leg with these posts. Bravo. Very funny stuff.

Nope Sam is the anti Lee

You know on a scale like this

Lee----Anarchist----Liberal---Moderate---Conservative---Reactionary---Sam

Sam · Post by **Sam** » November 2, 2004 2:58 pm

Lee
I am not sure what you went through in the last 18 months or how bad it was.......................I am trully saddened to hear that you had probs like that.

I will not go into mine or what I have seen and experienced......I have experienced and heard and seen so many people do it ,too many times.

You may well remain a convicted atheist but you will know the situation when it happens to you. You may not admit to anyone .but you will know you did pray and ask for help...into something you don't believe.

You will risk it, just incase it is or might be true and you have nothing lose...only you will know when that time comes..... I am not preaching or anything like that.just telling you....

As to why you will...or anyone else does...well I guess because it was the last thing to come out of Pandora's Box... it is called Hope!
w
Sort of like when its 3rd down and long 3 seconds left and going for a Hail Mary play! A last resort.....

iuparrothead · Post by **iuparrothead** » November 2, 2004 2:59 pm

PHBeerman wrote:
meisinger wrote:I think Sam is pulling our leg with these posts. Bravo. Very funny stuff.
Nope Sam is the anti Lee

You know on a scale like this

Lee----Anarchist----Liberal---Moderate---Conservative---Reactionary---Sam

ROTFLMAO!!!

Sam · Post by **Sam** » November 2, 2004 3:00 pm

PHBeerman wrote:
meisinger wrote:I think Sam is pulling our leg with these posts. Bravo. Very funny stuff.
Nope Sam is the anti Lee

You know on a scale like this

Lee----Anarchist----Liberal---Moderate---Conservative---Reactionary---Sam

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THANK YOU BRO!!!
I will let you buy me a beer and rhum for that one!

PHBeerman · Post by **PHBeerman** » November 2, 2004 3:02 pm

Sam wrote:
PHBeerman wrote:
meisinger wrote:I think Sam is pulling our leg with these posts. Bravo. Very funny stuff.
Nope Sam is the anti Lee

You know on a scale like this

Lee----Anarchist----Liberal---Moderate---Conservative---Reactionary---Sam

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THANK YOU BRO!!!
I will let you buy me a beer and rhum for that one!

Done

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » November 2, 2004 3:09 pm

Sam wrote:Okies but it isn't me with the double standards.

Nor me.

Sam wrote:No one is forcing religion on your child or anyone by the mention of God.

Not by the mention of God, but when the state requires my child to acknowledge God through the pledge, that's different.

Sam wrote:So please tell me aare you going to rewrite American History and the things the "Founding Fathers" spoke/wrote of?

Why would you think that? Have you been paying attention at all?

Sam wrote:How about : "We hold these truths to be self evident, that All Men are created equal and endowed with certain inalieanble Rights by their CREATOR......."?.

Note the use of the PC term "creator" not "God".

Sam wrote:How many successful "Columbine" type attaacks do I know of ? Well one quite similiar but maybe not as thouroughly dedicated to destruction was in Arkanas (?) I think it was..... I know of hmmmm at least 3 ( and am sure of quite a few others) other ones, that were supposedly being planned and someone found out somehow, and turned them in so they never happened...is that good enough?

Assuming that you're correct, that would be 5.

According to a 2002 report released by the U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics there are 91,380 public schools in America. A seperate study by the national center for education statistics shows 29,273 religious schools at the same time. So you're going to base your theory that its lack of God that caused shootings in public schools on a sampling of 5 instances amongst 120,653 schools?

The total number of schools affected by shootings is .00004% your still 4 decimal places away from even APPROACHING something of statistical significance and even then you wouldn't have a reasonable sample from which to base a hypothesis.

LIPH · Post by **LIPH** » November 2, 2004 3:10 pm

meisinger wrote:I think Sam is pulling our leg with these posts. Bravo. Very funny stuff.

Think of the most conservative right winger you know. Then think of someone who would make that person sound like a liberal and it would probably be Sam.

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » November 2, 2004 3:13 pm

Sam wrote:You will risk it, just incase it is or might be true and you have nothing lose...only you will know when that time comes.....

No I won't. I think Pascal was a pussy.

PHBeerman · Post by **PHBeerman** » November 2, 2004 3:14 pm

LIPH wrote:
meisinger wrote:I think Sam is pulling our leg with these posts. Bravo. Very funny stuff.
Think of the most conservative right winger you know. Then think of someone who would make that person sound like a liberal and it would probably be Sam.

And vice versa with Lee.

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » November 2, 2004 3:14 pm

Nah Troy - no anarchy for me. I'm more a "Henry David Thoreau" Civil Disobedience kind of guy.

Society is dependent on everyone accepting the rules and affecting change through the system.

meisinger · Post by **meisinger** » November 2, 2004 3:14 pm

PHBeerman wrote:
Sam wrote:
PHBeerman wrote:
meisinger wrote:I think Sam is pulling our leg with these posts. Bravo. Very funny stuff.
Nope Sam is the anti Lee

You know on a scale like this

Lee----Anarchist----Liberal---Moderate---Conservative---Reactionary---Sam

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THANK YOU BRO!!!
I will let you buy me a beer and rhum for that one!
Done

Beerman is my hero. He calls someone more extreme than a reactionary and gets a thank you. Now that's tact.

PHBeerman · Post by **PHBeerman** » November 2, 2004 3:20 pm

meisinger wrote:
PHBeerman wrote:
Sam wrote: WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THANK YOU BRO!!!
I will let you buy me a beer and rhum for that one!
Done
Beerman is my hero. He calls someone more extreme than a reactionary and gets a thank you. Now that's tact.

I do so with love.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » November 2, 2004 3:47 pm

Lee
Tell that to the parents and friends of those killed.
Tell that to the parents who fear it happening and losing their child.
Larry
You are rating me right up with Garry! I thank you!!
Youhave never paid me such a compliment, and I did not get you anything for your birthday, either!

Is ok Christmas is coming up!

LOL Sorry Elle Macpherson and Sandra Bullock are spoken for!

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » November 2, 2004 3:56 pm

Sam wrote:Lee
Tell that to the parents and friends of those killed.
Tell that to the parents who fear it happening and losing their child.

Why would I do that? What they believe is up to them.

semitruths · Post by **semitruths** » November 2, 2004 4:00 pm

Sam, not as an attack on you but just as someone putting in their $0.02 worth, I haven’t seen anyone I can agree with totally but I tend to agree with Lee on many things.

I have been in many situations before of wanting to call upon a greater power for help. I couldn’t bring myself to do it. I don’t believe in such a thing. I was brought up as a Christian and I believe that a morally correct lifestyle helped me to become the good person I am today ....... but I live my life morally correct as I see the definition to be and do not view my life to be based on the power of gods. Like with Lee this was not an overnight decision.

My take on religion:
Whether it be heathen-istic gods or a Jesus based religion, they all are a crutch for those who, as humans, cannot accept those things which they do not understand. Those people have to justify their/our ignorance of these things by saying a deity of sorts is responsible for it. I can admit that there will always be things past, present, and future that I will not understand. I do not have to believe it to be the will of an intangible god (*any* god …. The God, Zeus, Allah, Buddha … ). ...... and I have always been tolerant and respectful of all people and their beliefs.

I believe as Tomm does in allowing each person to believe as they wish without forcing a religion on them (as with kids). I believe you can bring up good kids without having Christianity or any other religion being a part of the upbringing. I have raised 3 great kids who learned tolerance and good moral values without the direct influence of Christianity. I am very proud of each one. I did allowed them all to experience Christianity ..... and talked openly about religion with them, I gave the them opportunity and choice to decide. One of them taught me my ignorance of the Wicca religion (which is not the worshiping of evil) though she does not practice that faith either.

The States were founded (partially) on the idea of religious freedom ...... I am so thankful for that .....

Has the word ‘god’ come out in my personal life?? ...... of course ....... but not because I believe in such, only ‘cause it tends to be part of typical American phrases.

As far as the original post ........ I don’t believe a simple mention of God in the pledge will be forcing the religion on anyone. I fear more for the lack of unity as a nation that removing the pledge will do to this country. The kids should be respecting that unity and learn the reasoning behind the pledge ...... not be debating over one word within.

volcanohead · Post by **volcanohead** » November 2, 2004 4:05 pm

tikitatas · Post by **tikitatas** » November 2, 2004 4:07 pm

Bubba sings it best maybe???

"Religion! Religion! Oh, there's a thin line between Saturday
night and Sunday morning. Here we go now.
Alright, alter boys."

Mea Culpa Mea Culpa Mea Maxima Culpa
Mea Culpa Mea Culpa Mea Maxima Culpa

Where's the church, who took the steeple
Religion is in the hands of some crazy-ass people
Television preachers with bad hair and dimples
The god's honest truth is it's not that simple
It's the Buddhist in you, it's the Pagan in me
It's the Muslim in him, she's Catholic ain't she?
It's the born again look its the WASP and the Jew
Tell me what's goin on, I ain't gotta clue !!!!

iuparrothead · Post by **iuparrothead** » November 2, 2004 4:24 pm

semitruths wrote:My take on religion:
Whether it be heathen-istic gods or a Jesus based religion, they all are a crutch for those who, as humans, cannot accept those things which they do not understand. Those people have to justify their/our ignorance of these things by saying a deity of sorts is responsible for it. I can admit that there will always be things past, present, and future that I will not understand. I do not have to believe it to be the will of an intangible god (*any* god …. The God, Zeus, Allah, Buddha … ). ...... and I have always been tolerant and respectful of all people and their beliefs.

Not a crutch per se... it is simply faith. I have faith, not ignorance nor do I use my faith as a crutch for phenomena of which I cannot explain.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing your view. I respect it completely. I'm just offering an alternate and more appropriate explanation for what many of us who do believe in God feel.