Liberals Complaint Department

iuparrothead · Post by **iuparrothead** » November 3, 2004 3:49 pm

WHOA!!! All those that are scripture quoting are not necessarily the most appropriate representation of those that supported our President for re-election!!!

Lee!!! I didn't make any decisions based on my faith... certain morals, yes... but not on faith alone!!!

sailingagain · Post by **sailingagain** » November 3, 2004 3:50 pm

ph4ever wrote:you do realize that you are quoting the Old Testament? While I can't quote scripture for scripture without my Bible here isn't there a very specific reason there is an Old and New Testament?

Let me preface this by saying that I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic, high school and grammer school. I was in choir and and altar boy. And yes, I even considered becoming a priest when I was very young. I went to school and had VERY INTENSIVE bible studies. Reasons such as the bible being anti-gay were one of MANY reasons I am not a practicing Catholic anymore.

I am not a political expert by any means, but I do know the bible.

Here is a new testament quote for you:
"For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness,: full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgement of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Rom. 1:23-32

It basically says that gays are worthy of death.

ph4ever · Post by **ph4ever** » November 3, 2004 3:50 pm

Key Lime Lee wrote:
UAHparrothead wrote:
ph4ever wrote:
sailingagain wrote:
Key Lime Lee wrote:
sailingagain wrote: They believe that God has judged against it (bible), so they are just following his word.
But they're not - he said he would judge in the end...
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination." Lev. 18:22

you do realize that you are quoting the Old Testament? While I can't quote scripture for scripture without my Bible here isn't there a very specific reason there is an Old and New Testament?
Romans 1:26-27 in the New Testament
Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
You know you can't start quoting the bible and win, right? Not unless you want to say its okay to stone people.

you are completely wrong there Lee. Jesus said He who is without sin cast the first stone. No where in the Bible did it indicate that stonning people was an acceptable form of punishment.

PHBeerman · Post by **PHBeerman** » November 3, 2004 3:50 pm

Key Lime Lee wrote:
PHBeerman wrote:
Then what are you complaining about?
I'm just curious why, if its a religious institution, why they let me get married?

That would be due to the fact that your union is a natural one? Hell I don't know is my name at the bottom?

PHBeerman · Post by **PHBeerman** » November 3, 2004 3:52 pm

captainjoe wrote:
PHBeerman wrote: Are you saying that a child molestor or a petaphile is a second class citizen?

I am saying that we should not mess with an institution that has been and still is a religious one.
Did you just lump homosexuals with child molestors and pedaphiles?

As a matter of fact I did.

RAGTOP · Post by **RAGTOP** » November 3, 2004 3:52 pm

It basically says that gays are worthy of death.

need I explain why I don't read the Bible

captainjoe · Post by **captainjoe** » November 3, 2004 3:52 pm

PHBeerman wrote:
captainjoe wrote:
PHBeerman wrote: Are you saying that a child molestor or a petaphile is a second class citizen?

I am saying that we should not mess with an institution that has been and still is a religious one.
Did you just lump homosexuals with child molestors and pedaphiles?
As a matter of fact I did.

Wow

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » November 3, 2004 3:53 pm

ph4ever wrote:
you are completely wrong there Lee. Jesus said He who is without sin cast the first stone. No where in the Bible did it indicate that stonning people was an acceptable form of punishment.

"And The Lord said to Moses ... He who blasphemes the Name of The Lord shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him; the sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death." (Leviticus 24:13,16 RSV)

"If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods ... You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from The Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." (Deuteronomy 13:6,10 RSV)

"While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day ... And The Lord said to Moses, "The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp." (Numbers 15:32,35 RSV)

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » November 3, 2004 3:53 pm

sailingagain wrote:
It basically says that gays are worthy of death.

So then it's okay to kill the next gay I see? cool.

ph4ever · Post by **ph4ever** » November 3, 2004 3:53 pm

sailingagain wrote:
ph4ever wrote:you do realize that you are quoting the Old Testament? While I can't quote scripture for scripture without my Bible here isn't there a very specific reason there is an Old and New Testament?
Let me preface this by saying that I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic, high school and grammer school. I was in choir and and altar boy. And yes, I even considered becoming a priest when I was very young. I went to school and had VERY INTENSIVE bible studies. Reasons such as the bible being anti-gay were one of MANY reasons I am not a practicing Catholic anymore.

I am not a political expert by any means, but I do know the bible.

Here is a new testament quote for you:
"For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness,: full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgement of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Rom. 1:23-32

It basically says that gays are worthy of death.

Yes but it is not your or my "duty" to judge or condemn anyone to death because of their actions. Period. That is God's and only God's judgement. That is the point I'm trying to make. As Christians it is our duty to inform those of their errors, pray for them and love them regardless. Not to condemn them.

PHBeerman · Post by **PHBeerman** » November 3, 2004 3:54 pm

Key Lime Lee wrote:
sailingagain wrote:
It basically says that gays are worthy of death.
So then it's okay to kill the next gay I see? cool.

Nope, not your job.

sailingagain · Post by **sailingagain** » November 3, 2004 3:55 pm

Key Lime Lee wrote:"And The Lord [see Rock Of Ages] said to Moses ... He who blasphemes the Name of The Lord shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him; the sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death." (Leviticus 24:13,16 RSV)
"If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods ... You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from The Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." (Deuteronomy 13:6,10 RSV)

"While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day ... And The Lord said to Moses, "The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp." (Numbers 15:32,35 RSV)

Your right Lee. It does, however, play into the New Testament vs Old Testament question. My quote indicates that the New Testament(book of Jesus) also openly states it's anti-gay sentiments.

sailingagain · Post by **sailingagain** » November 3, 2004 3:56 pm

Key Lime Lee wrote:
sailingagain wrote:
It basically says that gays are worthy of death.
So then it's okay to kill the next gay I see? cool.

I think it sends the wrong message. You'll get no argument from me.

bravedave · Post by **bravedave** » November 3, 2004 3:58 pm

Wet Wing wrote:"“I don’t say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President,” she replied haughtily. “The Bible does.”

“Yes, it does!” he shouted. “Leviticus 18:22.” The president was just warming up. “I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I had you here. I’m interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She’s a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?”

After a brief moment, he continued: “While thinking about that, can I ask another? My chief of staff, Leo McGarry, insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it OK to call the police?”

Now on a roll, the president steamed on triumphantly. “Here’s one that’s really important, ‘cause we’ve got a lot of sports fans in this town. Touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean, Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point?

“Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side?

“Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads?"

Down that path lies Osama.

ph4ever · Post by **ph4ever** » November 3, 2004 3:59 pm

Key Lime Lee wrote:
ph4ever wrote:
you are completely wrong there Lee. Jesus said He who is without sin cast the first stone. No where in the Bible did it indicate that stonning people was an acceptable form of punishment.
"And The Lord said to Moses ... He who blasphemes the Name of The Lord shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him; the sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death." (Leviticus 24:13,16 RSV)

"If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods ... You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from The Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." (Deuteronomy 13:6,10 RSV)

"While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day ... And The Lord said to Moses, "The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp." (Numbers 15:32,35 RSV)

ok well you got me there. But what you are quoting is from the Old Testament. With the birth of Jesus Christians were given a new hope and a new beginning. I know I'm not explaining this right but there is a compelte difference between new testament laws and old testament laws

RAGTOP · Post by **RAGTOP** » November 3, 2004 4:01 pm

I credit that eight years of grammar school with nourishing me in a direction where I could trust myself and trust my instincts. They gave me the tools to reject my faith. They taught me to question and think for myself and to believe in my instincts to such an extent that I just said, "This is a wonderful fairy tale they have going here, but it's not for me."
-George Carlin

never have words rung so true for me, but that's just me oh ya and Lee

buffettbride · Post by **buffettbride** » November 3, 2004 4:02 pm

ph4ever wrote:
sailingagain wrote:
ph4ever wrote:you do realize that you are quoting the Old Testament? While I can't quote scripture for scripture without my Bible here isn't there a very specific reason there is an Old and New Testament?
Let me preface this by saying that I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic, high school and grammer school. I was in choir and and altar boy. And yes, I even considered becoming a priest when I was very young. I went to school and had VERY INTENSIVE bible studies. Reasons such as the bible being anti-gay were one of MANY reasons I am not a practicing Catholic anymore.

I am not a political expert by any means, but I do know the bible.

Here is a new testament quote for you:
"For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness,: full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgement of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Rom. 1:23-32

It basically says that gays are worthy of death.

Yes but it is not your or my "duty" to judge or condemn anyone to death because of their actions. Period. That is God's and only God's judgement. That is the point I'm trying to make. As Christians it is our duty to inform those of their errors, pray for them and love them regardless. Not to condemn them.

And to not allow our goverment to make laws that support or advocate one religion's views. The Bible is clearly anti-gay. But for our goverment to make a law so obviously in support of the Bible's teachings is, IMHO, wrong.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Last I can remember, our country is based on the United States Constitution, not the Bible.

RAGTOP · Post by **RAGTOP** » November 3, 2004 4:02 pm

I credit that eight years of grammar school with nourishing me in a direction where I could trust myself and trust my instincts. They gave me the tools to reject my faith. They taught me to question and think for myself and to believe in my instincts to such an extent that I just said, "This is a wonderful fairy tale they have going here, but it's not for me."
-George Carlin

never have words rung so true for me, but that's just me oh ya and Lee

TheSecretsInTheCrust · November 3, 2004 4:03 pm

Key Lime Lee wrote:
Lvskns wrote:
Key Lime Lee wrote:
RAGTOP wrote:but a lot of broad generalizations.
Of course its broad generalizations, but I'm attempting to understand it...

Perhaps you can help me understand how large numbers of people would vote for a President who lies to them... other than broad generalizations, I don't have a good explanation.
all presidents have lied... they all promise things they can't deliver... wake up people!
This one has lied more flagarantly... blatantly... and I'm seriously asking...

Lee,
Respectfully, I don't believe he lied. He may have said things that many people did not agree with and/or did not want to hear. Sometimes when your in charge you need to make decisions that are not popular, but necessary. When Clinton looked into the camera and claimed "I did not have sex with that woman"....that was a flagarant... blatant lie. I feel that the Democratic Party is not in touch with the majority of America. That may account for losing the Electorial vote, the popular vote, seats in the Senate and the House and several state Governor and represenative seats.

PHBeerman · Post by **PHBeerman** » November 3, 2004 4:12 pm

buffettbride wrote: And to not allow our goverment to make laws that support or advocate one religion's views. The Bible is clearly anti-gay. But for our goverment to make a law so obviously in support of the Bible's teachings is, IMHO, wrong.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Last I can remember, our country is based on the United States Constitution, not the Bible.

Congress did not make the law. Ballot initiatives were drafted and the people overwhelming decided that these ballot initiatives reflect their views.

It's called democracy.