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Oh.. Also, this war has liberated millions of Iraqi's who were held hostage in their own country by a murdering, raping, maniacal lunatic. Why does that upset you? Is it selfishness or just lack of caring for other people?
[quote]

So what's changed - it's just happening in a different demographic now - or in prison

It's the religious folks that are the most hypocritical.... if they actually followed the teachings of Jesus they would let GOD judge whether two gay men should marry, not do the judging themselves.

But since when do religious folks follow the teaching of jesus?????

Ermie wrote:

nycparrothead wrote:Oh.. Also, this war has liberated millions of Iraqi's who were held hostage in their own country by a murdering, raping, maniacal lunatic. Why does that upset you? Is it selfishness or just lack of caring for other people?

So what's changed - it's just happening in a different demographic now - or in prison

Sorry.. I'm not sure I understood what you were trying to say.
Iraqis aren't afraid to live their lives the way they want anymore, hence they've become liberated. Sure they'll be even better off when we leave, but we can't just bail out on them before the government is stabilized or they'll be right back in the same boat.
If I missed you're point and didn't respond to what you meant, try and rephrase it for me.

Ermie wrote:

It's the religious folks that are the most hypocritical.... if they actually followed the teachings of Jesus they would let GOD judge whether two gay men should marry, not do the judging themselves.

But since when do religious folks follow the teaching of jesus?????

Hee hee.. This is fun.. We agree and disagree at the same time! I totally agree with you on this one!

Iraqis aren't afraid to live their lives the way they want anymore, hence they've become liberated.

I don't believe that - they are still afraid, they still can't lead their lives - they still get shot, raped, bombed etc - it's just being done by different groups.

Ermie wrote:

Iraqis aren't afraid to live their lives the way they want anymore, hence they've become liberated.

I don't believe that - they are still afraid, they still can't lead their lives - they still get shot, raped, bombed etc - it's just being done by different groups.

Actually, it's being done by a lot of the same people that were doing it before. The difference is that these groups are now fragmented and without direction and are acting out of desperation. Being in the military, I know a whole bunch of people who have been over there and are still over there and they have told me that, although the Iraqi people will be glad when things settle down more, they are extremely grateful and much happier now than they were under Sadaam.
Fighting for democracy isn't the easiest thing in the world to do. We were just lucky enough that in our countries it happened long before we had to be alive to witness it.

nycparrothead wrote:

Ermie wrote:

It's the religious folks that are the most hypocritical.... if they actually followed the teachings of Jesus they would let GOD judge whether two gay men should marry, not do the judging themselves.

But since when do religious folks follow the teaching of jesus?????

Hee hee.. This is fun.. We agree and disagree at the same time! I totally agree with you on this one!

I'm used to that - happens all the time with my husband

Ermie wrote:

nycparrothead wrote:

Ermie wrote:

It's the religious folks that are the most hypocritical.... if they actually followed the teachings of Jesus they would let GOD judge whether two gay men should marry, not do the judging themselves.

But since when do religious folks follow the teaching of jesus?????

Hee hee.. This is fun.. We agree and disagree at the same time! I totally agree with you on this one!

I'm used to that - happens all the time with my husband

MelliJellyBean wrote:I'm suprised this thread hasn't been deleted.

Why would it be deleted?

PHBeerman wrote:

MelliJellyBean wrote:I'm suprised this thread hasn't been deleted.

Why would it be deleted?

I wondered that too...

nycparrothead wrote:

Ermie wrote:

Iraqis aren't afraid to live their lives the way they want anymore, hence they've become liberated.

I don't believe that - they are still afraid, they still can't lead their lives - they still get shot, raped, bombed etc - it's just being done by different groups.

Actually, it's being done by a lot of the same people that were doing it before. The difference is that these groups are now fragmented and without direction and are acting out of desperation. Being in the military, I know a whole bunch of people who have been over there and are still over there and they have told me that, although the Iraqi people will be glad when things settle down more, they are extremely grateful and much happier now than they were under Sadaam.
Fighting for democracy isn't the easiest thing in the world to do. We were just lucky enough that in our countries it happened long before we had to be alive to witness it.

I guess if you don't keep telling yourself that it would be hard to keep fighting - personally I think it's a delusion.

Big Phan wrote:

Key Lime Lee wrote:

UAHparrothead wrote:

Key Lime Lee wrote:What concerns me more is the number of folks who voted to ban gay marriage and limit domestic partner rights....

Is America really THIS conservative?

If it is, I may be in the wrong country....

I'll send you on plane my friend...one way

You think I'm kidding...

It's the religious folks that are the most hypocritical.... if they actually followed the teachings of Jesus they would let GOD judge whether two gay men should marry, not do the judging themselves.

Amen, Brother Lee!!!! For everyone against the gay marriage ban...when did YOU decide to be heterosexual?

I guess when I understood right from wrong.

nycparrothead wrote:

PHBeerman wrote:

MelliJellyBean wrote:I'm suprised this thread hasn't been deleted.

Why would it be deleted?

I wondered that too...

We agree again

nycparrothead wrote:

Ermie wrote:

Iraqis aren't afraid to live their lives the way they want anymore, hence they've become liberated.

I don't believe that - they are still afraid, they still can't lead their lives - they still get shot, raped, bombed etc - it's just being done by different groups.

Actually, it's being done by a lot of the same people that were doing it before. The difference is that these groups are now fragmented and without direction and are acting out of desperation. Being in the military, I know a whole bunch of people who have been over there and are still over there and they have told me that, although the Iraqi people will be glad when things settle down more, they are extremely grateful and much happier now than they were under Sadaam.
Fighting for democracy isn't the easiest thing in the world to do. We were just lucky enough that in our countries it happened long before we had to be alive to witness it.

here is where We need to teach folks to fish and not give them a fish

Ermie wrote:I guess if you don't keep telling yourself that it would be hard to keep fighting - personally I think it's a delusion.

Iraqis running up and hugging our troops in mass and playing baseball for the first time is no delusion, it just doesn't make the 6 o'clock news cause death tolls and conspiracies get better ratings.

ragtopW wrote:

nycparrothead wrote:Actually, it's being done by a lot of the same people that were doing it before. The difference is that these groups are now fragmented and without direction and are acting out of desperation. Being in the military, I know a whole bunch of people who have been over there and are still over there and they have told me that, although the Iraqi people will be glad when things settle down more, they are extremely grateful and much happier now than they were under Sadaam.
Fighting for democracy isn't the easiest thing in the world to do. We were just lucky enough that in our countries it happened long before we had to be alive to witness it.

here is where We need to teach folks to fish and not give them a fish

Then we'd be no better than France.

I guess when I understood right from wrong.

Can we be so sure??? What happened to tolerating differences and not imposing our views on others?

Ermie wrote:

I guess when I understood right from wrong.

Can we be so sure??? What happened to tolerating differences and not imposing our views on others?

Although, I'm sure I won't convince Troy, I used to think that being gay was a choice until I realized that one of my friends in college was gay. I watched the kid cry on many occasions asking why he was so screwed up and why he couldn't just be normal. A genetic defect, maybe. But it certainly isn't a choice they make, that I'm sure of.

Iraqis running up and hugging our troops in mass and playing baseball for the first time is no delusion, it just doesn't make the 6 o'clock news cause death tolls and conspiracies get better ratings.

I guess different sides of the world get different perspectives and feed back.

Ermie wrote:

I guess when I understood right from wrong.

Can we be so sure??? What happened to tolerating differences and not imposing our views on others?

Our views?


I thought I wrote when "I" understood right from wrong.

Not when "We" understood right from wrong.


I was imposing my beliefs on myself.