[rant]

[PHBeerman]

I'm actually quite surprised the tsunami hasn't been blamed on President Bush yet

The media basically has blamed him. Since he did not do a knee jerk money drop, he is a bad person. I love it when the left turns death into a political issue.

Be fair. If a demmycrat was in office, the right would have done the same. It's just politics.

I disagree. The only time that the right ever turned death into politics during the Clinton era (That I remember) was when our soldiers were dying and nothing was being done to retaliate.

[PHBeerman]

But that is not what p*** me off. What p*** me off is the Media. All of them, Fox, CNN, NBC, BS, and ABC all included. They are always trying to make news instead of reporting it. That is what is wrong with our system right now.

[phtnt]

But that is not what p*** me off. What p*** me off is the Media. All of them, Fox, CNN, NBC, BS, and ABC all included. They are always trying to make news instead of reporting it. That is what is wrong with our system right now.

you never see that crap on ESPN

[tikitatas]

Cate...I'm not sure that's Troy's point. I think it's discouraging that the US is looking like "bad people" in the media because it's not enough..it's not enough...it's not enough.

It's a God awful trajedy what happened but I think it's a shame the first thing that happens is finger pointing to the US that we're not doing enough to fix it fast enough.

Without speaking for all of us, I'd venture to guess that MOST of us will help out with the relief in one way or another whether directly or indirectly. But it's downright preposterous to hear in the media that we're not doing enough.

I don't think anyone is asking for recognition...we're asking for the finger not to be pointed directly at us and let those good U.S. (and BN) hearts show through.

JM VERY HO

-Mal

Thanks Mal. That is exactly what my point is. I think we should be giving these people as much as we can. But what the media is not saying is that while other nations are giving relief in the form of loans, our relief is not. Yet still we are the bad guys.

Point heard and taken, Mal and Troy. The media has spun it to cast your country in the worst possible light. The world knows how generous you are.

[IsleReef]

I'm actually quite surprised the tsunami hasn't been blamed on President Bush yet

For some reason, strange sh* t happens when Shane has not been around.............

[buffettbride]

Cate...I'm not sure that's Troy's point. I think it's discouraging that the US is looking like "bad people" in the media because it's not enough..it's not enough...it's not enough.

It's a God awful trajedy what happened but I think it's a shame the first thing that happens is finger pointing to the US that we're not doing enough to fix it fast enough.

Without speaking for all of us, I'd venture to guess that MOST of us will help out with the relief in one way or another whether directly or indirectly. But it's downright preposterous to hear in the media that we're not doing enough.

I don't think anyone is asking for recognition...we're asking for the finger not to be pointed directly at us and let those good U.S. (and BN) hearts show through.

JM VERY HO

-Mal

Thanks Mal. That is exactly what my point is. I think we should be giving these people as much as we can. But what the media is not saying is that while other nations are giving relief in the form of loans, our relief is not. Yet still we are the bad guys.

Point heard and taken, Mal and Troy. The media has spun it to cast your country in the worst possible light. The world knows how generous you are.

Thanks Cate. 'Cause we all know it's Canada's fault

[creeky]

The "world" (not me, or my personal opinion, but what I as a "foreigner" see, hear and read in the media etc) sees the USA as the biggest superpower in the world.

Along with that - as you know in High School with the "top group" of people etc - comes the perception of them being arrogant and opinionated along with that power.

That - from what I see - is what people percieve - and it happens in all parts of society where a group of people or a person is in a position of power.

I have people here that would never travel to the USA (their loss) because of the perception they have .... but it is nothing against the USA specifically - I would not travel to some parts of Sydney here either because of what I perceive them to be like - its just part of life...

but for the record - I love Americans and I agree that you are in the main to be generous and caring people (like all countries - we do have those we wish we could dis-own!)


So - rather than worry about what people think of you (I have learnt this lesson quickly this year with my movement to management position) - put your energies in to things you can change - you will not change perception of people in power - just think about how you feel about your boss etc ..... (tho I am sure if you asked my team they would say that I am lovely )

[kurt]

(like all countries - we do have those we wish we could dis-own!)

What a line! I love it! Creeky... I MISS YOU!!!! A Wolf Blass Chard (or a top of the line Penfolds) for you. ...I do remember that you don't like the reds even though it's been a while!

[CaptainP]

I'm actually quite surprised the tsunami hasn't been blamed on President Bush yet

The media basically has blamed him. Since he did not do a knee jerk money drop, he is a bad person. I love it when the left turns death into a political issue.

Be fair. If a demmycrat was in office, the right would have done the same. It's just politics.

I disagree. The only time that the right ever turned death into politics during the Clinton era (That I remember) was when our soldiers were dying and nothing was being done to retaliate.

Then you have been blinded by your political beliefs. Me, I'm a non-partisan observer of politics, and I believe the biggest flaw with our system of government is the party system. It's divisive, and your point of view shows a good example of it...

It goes like this:

"I see something I don't like. Political party A is in office. I'm with Political party B. It's Party A's fault."
AND
"I see something I don't like. Political party B is in office. I'm with Political party B. It's Party A's fault, because of policies that were passed when Party A used to be in office!"


I'm not cutting you personally, PHB. Just the blind Party Politic point of view that way too many people in this country have. Michael Moore is the #1 example of this in today's society. When he comes out with a statement saying, "51% of the voters in the US were uninformed at the last election", he's casting a blind eye to any point of view that doesn't agree with his own.

[Tony5150RN]

I agree 100% and I'm also tired of hearing requests for donations to relief agencys every two seconds. Don't get me wrong, if anyone here knows what it's like to suffer unexpected losses, as a result of mother nature, it's me. However, as far as sending a monetary donation, to a third world country, I have my reservations for several reasons:

First of all, and I know all of you are sick of hearing about the hurricanes, but hear me out. After Charley, there was allegedly a large amount of money donated to our area yet my wife and I never saw a cent of it and didn't get anything from FEMA. all of our money came from insurance companies and we had to get an independant adjuster to get a semi reasonable amount. I sit here wondering where all these donations went. Afterall, if victims in the U.S. didn't receive donations, after a disaster, how can you expect the true needy, in a third world country, to get anything you send?

Secondly, this part of the world is another area always experiencing unrest. There are many Muslim factions, some Al Quaeda based, fighting for supremacy. How do you know that your money will goto recovery and not guns??

Finally, people in this area really don't like the United States or Americans in general. Sure, this may be a chance to change their minds but how can we be sure we're truly funding a relief effort?

I'd really like to help out monetarily but I'd also like to be sure the people who actually need the money get it and that I'm not funding the next 9/11. Just some food for thought...

[Tony5150RN]

One more thing:

[tikitatas]

I agree 100% and I'm also tired of hearing requests for donations to relief agencys every two seconds. Don't get me wrong, if anyone here knows what it's like to suffer unexpected losses, as a result of mother nature, it's me. However, as far as sending a monetary donation, to a third world country, I have my reservations for several reasons:

First of all, and I know all of you are sick of hearing about the hurricanes, but hear me out. After Charley, there was allegedly a large amount of money donated to our area yet my wife and I never saw a cent of it and didn't get anything from FEMA. all of our money came from insurance companies and we had to get an independant adjuster to get a semi reasonable amount. I sit here wondering where all these donations went. Afterall, if victims in the U.S. didn't receive donations, after a disaster, how can you expect the true needy, in a third world country, to get anything you send?

Secondly, this part of the world is another area always experiencing unrest. There are many Muslim factions, some Al Quaeda based, fighting for supremacy. How do you know that your money will goto recovery and not guns??

Finally, people in this area really don't like the United States or Americans in general. Sure, this may be a chance to change their minds but how can we be sure we're truly funding a relief effort?

I'd really like to help out monetarily but I'd also like to be sure the people who actually need the money get it and that I'm not funding the next 9/11. Just some food for thought...

Two words : Red Cross

[creeky]

I agree 100% and I'm also tired of hearing requests for donations to relief agencys every two seconds. Don't get me wrong, if anyone here knows what it's like to suffer unexpected losses, as a result of mother nature, it's me. However, as far as sending a monetary donation, to a third world country, I have my reservations for several reasons:

First of all, and I know all of you are sick of hearing about the hurricanes, but hear me out. After Charley, there was allegedly a large amount of money donated to our area yet my wife and I never saw a cent of it and didn't get anything from FEMA. all of our money came from insurance companies and we had to get an independant adjuster to get a semi reasonable amount. I sit here wondering where all these donations went. Afterall, if victims in the U.S. didn't receive donations, after a disaster, how can you expect the true needy, in a third world country, to get anything you send?

Secondly, this part of the world is another area always experiencing unrest. There are many Muslim factions, some Al Quaeda based, fighting for supremacy. How do you know that your money will goto recovery and not guns??

Finally, people in this area really don't like the United States or Americans in general. Sure, this may be a chance to change their minds but how can we be sure we're truly funding a relief effort?

I'd really like to help out monetarily but I'd also like to be sure the people who actually need the money get it and that I'm not funding the next 9/11. Just some food for thought...

Two words : Red Cross

While the red cross do AMAZING work - check where the charity dollar goes

ie Red Cross take 10c in the dollar for admin.

Care International that I donated to only take 7c in the dollar and 93c will get to the people on the ground that need it ....

[Sam]

The donations and fees happen with every charity. Anyone remember the United Way fiasco a few years back? How about the Jerry Lewis telethons for MD and how much actually went to research???

The ARC does more, but it has to do with the orgaanizational set up from years ago. I could name events that the volunteers for the ARC did that were troublesome and turned me away from them.....YET I have benefited from the aid of the ARC when a tornado came through and dropped a tree on where we lived and had no insurance. I have disliked and liked the ARC.

It is not about "recognition for us" aiding and helping people. It is about that America never refuses to open her wallet to those in need. And they hate us and always expect us to aid and help them.

No matter how much we give to anyone, it will NEVER be enough.

We complain about our taxes...who wants to pay more in taxes? You want to pay more and do more then volunteer and give it.

We have hungry and homeless people and people that cannot read right here in America. We have veterans sleeping on the streets. We have many problems right here. Should we help them and try to solve some of them first or aid people that hate us first? Granted there is the benefit of winning more "friends" now means less problems later. We have to help out , but our purse is not unlimited. It is not about bragging rights on who gives the most to blah blah blah. it is about doing what we can as best we can to help people. Could it be done better? hindsight is always 20/20!

If Americans went in only being prepared to deal with 2,000 dead what would be said when they found out there are well over 100,000 dead?

We even help those take care of their dead. The U.S. goverment has NEVER aided me or my family in any of the deaths in my family! Nor did I expect them to.

There are hurricaine survivors that are living in travel trailers provided by FEMA. Maybe everyone did not get FEMA funds...but many did! I just saw an interview with several familes right before Christmas....how they decided on who got what, I do not know.

How many times has America, not been the first or among the first to respond to disasters in other countries?

Often it takes the time to assess the situation and gather and to organize a delivery system. Initial reports are often wrong and way off. From 2,000 to now over 150,000?

To set up a system of loading and delivering supplies is not cheap, you want to get adequate supplies and aid into the area. Not enough and you can have riots or worse...Often military personel, cargo planes, and helicopters are used...than can carry the cargo and supplies and paid workers. Can those military people and aircraft be spared or are they dedicated for another mission elsewhere, when relief and supplies are needed on such a large scale. How many sorties have to be generated? and how many man hours and aircraft are readily available and can be generated? etc.

Yes, screw ups happen and wrong supplies are delivered because some one made a mistake in the whatever digit number or something. When dealing with all those digits and letters it is bound to happen. I have experienced it first hand.

All of that aside.....It is not about how much more we should give.... after all lets take a look at the big media and the owners....... ABC,CBS,CNN,FOX,MSNBC,NBC, BBC, etc... how much are they giving and contributing to relief efforts? How many aircraft are they supplying?
Certainly Ted Turner and Rupert Murdoch and the rest could dig deep and fork over more than all of us combined and never miss it. Yet their reporters continue to condemn America and Americans.

Yet they accuse the U.S. Goverment and Americans as to not doing enough?

I have no problem with aiding countries and victims in such times...yet America is still considered "The Great Satan" by many and including those who need America's and American aid and relief.

There are so many Americans that need help. There are many U.S. military veterans that need help. There are many children in America that need the help. There are many elderly people that need help and often forgotten about. The list could on and on. I am pretty sure this happens in other countries all over the world with possibly a few exceptions.

Yet America and American's continue to freely give and volunteer aid and supplies all over the world and ignore our own back yard for the most part.

I don't want to deny anyone or country much needed aid, but what about our own people that are in dire need being helped first? I am not promoting any particular social cause or program or healthcare or anything like that.

Why are we helping so many people that look down on us and not helping our own first? America is a generous country and a generous people overall. We feed most of the world with the food produced and grown.
Yet America is still looked down upon....

[creeky]

We all have our own needs in our own backyard - we all have homeless, hungry, illiterate people etc. However, I think most countries are donating ..... at one point the USA government donation was just a little more than Australia's donation - when you consider the size of each country (our national population is same as NY) - I think that may have prompted some outcry - however, that has been changed and they have come to the party with the cash ......

And I dont think ALL of these people have a dislike for the USA - think about - its the people that dislike things that you always hear the loudest .....

[Sam]

Right, we as nations and countries all have our needs.....and I agree with your point that NOT everyone hates America and Americans. But my point is that the people that hate us or the media saying America is and Americans are NOT doing enough.

The squeaky wheel always gets the most oil. I am not being arrogant or stuck up or asking for recognition for America or Americans!

I am merely saying that those who hate or detest us, are always the first in need asking for America an Americans to help in time of castastrophe or disaster.

I cannot think of any country, that we as Americans have ever refused to help and aid and volunteer to go to, yet for the most part the media continues to give us a black eye and a fat lip and try to hit below the belt.

I am sick and tired of this crap. Rather I want the media to stop considering America and Americans in such light and ignoring all the good that America and Americans has/have been done and continuing to show us in such a bad way. I want to see them put THEIR money where their mouth is and on the line! How much more should we give? Put our own families and national security at risk? Will that be enough for them?


I am not asking for recognition! I am merely asking for the media to stop the slams on the U.S. and to give credit where credit is due and to stop the BS about we are not doing enough! No doubt that will never happen.

Taxpayers here are giving $$$ in the taxes they pay to the goverment, and the goverment is giving their money away to people that hate them. Then on top of that, people are giving of their own money voluntarily. They are donating items such as clothing and other items and of themselves. All this in addition to the tax dollars. Yet we are constantly told those same peopl hate us. NOTE I GIVE THE POINT NOT EVERYONE HATES US! But there are those that do! Just as there are American citizens that hate too. America is not perfect, and I never made the claim she is.....But I do not know of a better country to live that grants so many Freedoms and Rights to everyone. Even Illegal aliens recieving goverment benefits and recognition.

Yet to be told America and Americans are not doing enough??? Tell me where is CNN Ted and FOX Rupert? Where are all of those that own other media outlets?


We have American military helos ferrying in supplies where trucks cannot go!

We are not doing enough?
Just how much do we or any nation need to do? We can only do so much, no more, no less!
I am still waiting to hear word of a a very good friend and his wife. I have heard nothing!
In the meantime I have contributed to a couple of agencies... yet I am still considered by some to be disdained and hated and despised and for the media to tell me I don't do enough?

I don't hear the media talking about any other nation not doing enough.
America and coalition forces are at war and there are those who do not care one way or the other about the war, or those that oppose the war, and those that support the war.

Resources are not infinite and priorities are there.
Sort of like triage in a MASH or emergency unit....save the ones that you can....comfort those who will not survive.

The media is showing it's colors and just what they actually care for. When CNN Ted and FOX Rupert and the rest of the media stop their BS and cough up and dig deep into THEIR wallets that they ask US to dig deep into...maybe I will change my mind about the biased BLEEPING BLEEPS! But until then, they are just as much anti American, as the enemy in any war and aiding and abetting the enemy's cause.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!! Hopefully this will be a better and more pleasant trip around the Sun for All!!!

[a1aara]

Former presidents to lead tsunami private aid effort
White House picks Clinton, Bush
Monday, January 3, 2005 Posted: 10:09 AM EST (1509 GMT)





WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush has tapped former Presidents Clinton and Bush to lead a nationwide charitable fund-raising effort for victims of the Asian tsunamis, the White House announced Monday.

The two men will lead an effort "to encourage the American people and American businesses to support, through private contributions, non-governmental and international organizations" relief and reconstruction to areas devastated by the tsunamis, White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

The president was announcing the effort in the White House's Roosevelt Room with the two former presidents at his side.

Afterward, Bush was paying brief visits to the embassies of the four nations -- Indonesia, Sri Lanka, India and Thailand -- hit hardest by the disaster. Bush was to sign condolence books at each embassy, McClellan said.

Meanwhile, the Pentagon has decided to send the USNS Mercy, a 1,000-bed hospital ship based at San Diego, to join the tsunami relief effort in south Asia, two officials said Monday, speaking on condition of anonymity. The ship, currently at sea for a previously scheduled test, is capable of receiving patients by helicopter or by ship, either at anchor or while under way.

Bush has not yet made a contribution to the relief effort, but plans to give an unspecified amount, McClellan said.

At the same time, the president was waiting to hear back from a delegation he dispatched to the region to assess what more the United States government can do to help. That team, led by Secretary of State Colin Powell and the president's brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, arrived in the region Monday. (Full story)

Bush faced criticism for being slow to respond publicly to the December 26 disaster. Other countries were quicker to commit large amounts of aid money, and Japan has outpaced the U.S. total of $350 million pledged so far.

Private donations have been pouring in from people in the United States and around the world, and the White House was encouraging that flow to continue.

The White House's Freedom Corps outfit, which helps facilitate volunteer efforts around the country, is to assist the two former presidents in soliciting private contributions.

[ejr]

Tony:

I understand your concerns. But FEMA is a federal agency and its money comes from the government, not from private donations. I have seen directly how organizations like the Red Cross can get in and help-just locally, in the Chicago area about 15 years ago we had serious flooding following a 9 inch rainstorm-a colleague of mine's home was totally under water, and the Red Cross came, block by block providing clean water and food for those trying to save anything from their homes.

The charities all of us are talking about go over and provide food, water, clothes and comfort themselves so the money will not be put in terrorists hands. That is why all of us urge donations to those charities that do this kind of thing, and do it well. There are lots of ways to check out these charities to make sure they do what you want.

[PHBeerman]

Then you have been blinded by your political beliefs. Me, I'm a non-partisan observer of politics, and I believe the biggest flaw with our system of government is the party system. It's divisive, and your point of view shows a good example of it...
It goes like this:
"I see something I don't like. Political party A is in office. I'm with Political party B. It's Party A's fault."
AND
"I see something I don't like. Political party B is in office. I'm with Political party B. It's Party A's fault, because of policies that were passed when Party A used to be in office!"
I'm not cutting you personally, PHB. Just the blind Party Politic point of view that way too many people in this country have. Michael Moore is the #1 example of this in today's society. When he comes out with a statement saying, "51% of the voters in the US were uninformed at the last election", he's casting a blind eye to any point of view that doesn't agree with his own.

Yeah you are non-partisan that is for sure.


As long as non-partisan means left of Lee.

[ejr]

Two websites that are recommended for checking out charities and finding out where the money goes are www.guidestar.org and www.give.org.