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tikitatas wrote:May the Divine Spirit come for Terri soon, wrapping her in peace.

WcS Also the entire family Husband and parents.

Lightning Bolt wrote:We, as American citizens, are given the right to live.
We also should continue to have the right to die, if the situation presents itself as a choice.

When a person marries, that person cedes that decision to their partner.

The longer that this situation drags on, its' appearance as cruelty only grows larger, since YOU and I wouldn't even KNOW about this situation
if it wasn't held up in courts by the Religious Right. They are trying to change EXISTING laws of individual freedom.

It makes me feel terrible for the Schiavo family. They should've examined the realities of Terry's condition (now going on 15 years?) and accepted
her "passing" a long time ago. It sounds un-PC, but I believe her parents are being the selfish ones here.

I may not always agree with you Bolt, but this is one of the times I do. Her parents gave up any real right to govern her life when she turned 18, and certainly after she got married. That they keep holding on to this is the saddest part of all.

If I were that small spark in the very damaged shell, I would be praying for a massive failure of my pain-med pump, sending a huge spike of morphine straight into the needle and calling it good.

Hey Ringling, that is how most Hospice patients die.
If you get anything (drugs) you want, the patient takes advantage of it and the morphine relaxes their breathing so much that they pass in their sleep.

As much as I love my family if they leave me in a vegetated state for 15 YEARS when I finally do die I will come back and haunt them mercilessly!!!!!

East Texas Parrothead wrote: We were able to get her into a wonderful hospice facility in Tyler (angels among us, to be sure) and we were with her with she left us.

you're right, the hospice in tyler is great. they took care of my FIL and my aunt. whatever the outcome, i hope its the best thing for terry.

lovin_jimmy wrote:

East Texas Parrothead wrote: We were able to get her into a wonderful hospice facility in Tyler (angels among us, to be sure) and we were with her with she left us.

you're right, the hospice in tyler is great. they took care of my FIL and my aunt. whatever the outcome, i hope its the best thing for terry.

Did you say tyler???? As in Tyler, Texas??? Do you live there?

Mplsfins wrote:Hey Ringling, that is how most Hospice patients die.
If you get anything (drugs) you want, the patient takes advantage of it and the morphine relaxes their breathing so much that they pass in their sleep.

I understand that part.. however.. care to bet the odds of her just passing away from an OD without help in this case?

It's too bad she cannot make that decision for herself. And the guy that could and would is in prison. Dr. Kevorkian. Bless that man and all the help he provided to people who couldn't do it. Anyone ever see the Nip Tuck episode where Dr. Mac's girlfriend found out she was terminal and took care of it before she couldn't make that decision anymore.

Jason

nycparrothead wrote:

lovin_jimmy wrote:

East Texas Parrothead wrote: We were able to get her into a wonderful hospice facility in Tyler (angels among us, to be sure) and we were with her with she left us.

you're right, the hospice in tyler is great. they took care of my FIL and my aunt. whatever the outcome, i hope its the best thing for terry.

Did you say tyler???? As in Tyler, Texas??? Do you live there?

I don't live there, but my grandmother was in an Alzheimer's unit for 4 years there. Our home town is 60 miles due north of Tyler. And Tyler has the closest (and best, in my opinion) hospice within 100 miles of us.

12vmanRick wrote:As much as I love my family if they leave me in a vegetated state for 15 YEARS when I finally do die I will come back and haunt them mercilessly!!!!!

Too many emotions (and judges, and courts, and Jeb's, and elected officials, and...I'll stop at that)....she will NOT recover...and why the judge gave until March 18th is beyond me. The Schindlers lawyer wants "more time" to conduct additional tests?? What else can you test after 15 years? And why haven't you been doing them up to this point? I think that there has been ample time and documentation. I am definately not a cold hearted person...but enough is enough.

Let Judge Greer's decision stand...and let the "Higher Powers" decide if she is to continue this "so called life" she has "lived" for the last 15 years.

This has been in the courts since 1990. It's time to stop the nonsense, come to an agreement, and let Terri rest in peace...

While her parents believe that her laughing is a response to them, it's just random neurons in her brain firing off... and 3 of 5 Doctors say so as well... the two that didn't were hired by her parents... so of course they will say to the contrary...

How is this fair to Mr. Shiavo? Knowing his WIFE's wishes were not to be kept alive in this scenario, but not being able to do anything about it because of her parents... paying for it, not only monetarily, but emotionally as well... I don't believe for one second that the removal of her tube will be "cold blooded murder" as Terri's parents say... Rather closure for both Terri and her Husband...
I believe that Michael is having a tough time dealing with this, and while, yes, he does have another person in his life now, I believe that he needs someone to turn to just as much as the next person does when they are faced with such grief for a prolonged time...

If Quint were to leave me on life support for 15 years, with my brain nothing more than oatmeal in my head I think I'd have a really rough time with it... not that I'd notice....
I just don't even want to think that this could be me in the situation.

Mplsfins wrote:It's too bad she cannot make that decision for herself. And the guy that could and would is in prison. Dr. Kevorkian. Bless that man and all the help he provided to people who couldn't do it. Anyone ever see the Nip Tuck episode where Dr. Mac's girlfriend found out she was terminal and took care of it before she couldn't make that decision anymore.

Jason

Nip Tuck is one of my favorite shows on tv. That was quite an episode you mentioned.

Gulfbreeze wrote:

12vmanRick wrote:As much as I love my family if they leave me in a vegetated state for 15 YEARS when I finally do die I will come back and haunt them mercilessly!!!!!

Too many emotions (and judges, and courts, and Jeb's, and elected officials, and...I'll stop at that)....she will NOT recover...and why the judge gave until March 18th is beyond me. The Schindlers lawyer wants "more time" to conduct additional tests?? What else can you test after 15 years? And why haven't you been doing them up to this point? I think that there has been ample time and documentation. I am definately not a cold hearted person...but enough is enough.

Let Judge Greer's decision stand...and let the "Higher Powers" decide if she is to continue this "so called life" she has "lived" for the last 15 years.

For the record. I was stating this for ME in MY life. What is going on in hers and why is something I wish to not discuss on a board. Mainly because of two sides of it that none of us are family and know anything about.

Bottom line, whatever your wishes are GET A LIVING WILL!!

still trying to figure out why the husband is a scumbag - been following this story for awhile since I am in the area - have seen many tv reports... etc... Unless you walked in that man's shoes...... he sat by her side for SOOOO long... every day iun the hospital - there comes a time when you have to accept and move on - even if it tears your heart out. The fact that he met someone was boiund to happen eventually. The parents are thinking of themselves and not their daughter it seems. THEY will miss her THEY do not want her to leave - THEY do not agree with her wishes... how selfish is that! If I were in that state and my wishes were to remove the tube and they didn't - I can't even imagine.
The fact that Jeb Bush stepped in and made it his business made me even madder - he had no right. Her husband had the authority - her pain should have ended years ago. period.

Plain and simple-remove the tube.

Well the reasons the tests were not done earlier, during the past 15 years, is because the husband refused to allow them to be done.

He DID NOT bring this up until all the money was gone.... What happened to all the money that SHE was awarded to take care of her?

If she told her husband that these were actually her wishes...then WHY didn't she bother to tell anyone else? If she had a Living Will , fine well and good nothing could be said.

I posted something about her when rhis came up last time. I have more than once,seen what my mother went through when she lost a child.(4 separate times!) Who is being cruel here? To the parents that knew her alot longer the hubby did and she being their child? Or the husband that seems to only want the profit of what happened to her and her sufferings?

I have 2 sisters that are RN's. While Terri's case may well seem to be hopeless, many unexplainable things that are nothing short of being miracles can and do happen. No medical explanation for them. My sisters have told me of some they have personally seen.

I do believe in Hospice care and my brother that passed this Christmas Day 2004 was under hospice care.

Let her parents have her and take care of her if they want that....If there is nothing inside her to come back, then it will not matter to Terri and will give the parents at least some piece of mind knowing they are trying their very best and utmost. The hubby can move on with his new life and never have to worry about explaining where all the money went that was suppose to take care of her that was awarded in the lawsuit.

If we had legalized euthanasia how would you decide who is going to be next? The mongoloid or mentally handicapped children? Children with birth defects? People diagnosed with HIV or cancer or leukemia or Parkinson's or MD, MS, or any of the other numerous debilitating or terminal diseases?

Would you euthanize Stephen Hawking?

Who decides who is suffering ? Who can say what the person may or may not feel?

Patients in comas or under surgery have described things they have heard while in that coma or in surgery...What would Terri really want...I have no idea, but I have no reason to trust her husband's motives after all these years...

Common sense would apply? How common is common sense these days? Someone wanting their inheritence could no doubt have some doctor claim that the person wanted to be euthanised so they could collect it....

I am all for people not suffering... but how does one stop it from being taken to the extreme?

In Terri's case there is no clear cut answer and is painful to everyone involved and I agree with those who say get a living will!

I have heard, that drowning is a painless and peaceful way to die....... that does not mean that I want to drown.....anymore than I want to starve to death. Sure the body will release endorphins to ease the pain
at the latter stages...but going through it before the endorphins kick in......
is not very pleasant....

This is all so sad to watch. Sam, you and I got into discussions about this last time around, and I continue to respect you, your opinions, and all that you and your family have been through (and I value that this discussion has taken place without anyone resorting to the childishness so many discussions here have become). You and I disagree on this, and that is fine.

But the law says that this is the husband's call-not her parents, not the courts and not the governor. If the husband and parents' positions were reversed, while I would then disagree with the husband, I know that his position would be the one honored.

Yes it is unfortunate that Terri's wishes are not in writing, but if we do not honor and respect the wishes of the husband, the one who legally has the call, and if we continue to drag this out in court, the law becomes meaningless.

Nobody will come out the winner here, but this does need to be resolved and it seems to me that the law is pretty clear here.

Sam wrote:
If she told her husband that these were actually her wishes...then WHY didn't she bother to tell anyone else? If she had a Living Will , fine well and good nothing could be said.

I can say that this is quite possible. There are many conversations and issues I discuss with my husband that I don't have with anyone else. Especially my parents. I can completely picture this conversation with my husband, about not keeping me alive if it's machines doing all the work...but it would never occur to me in the day-to-day of things to bring this up with my mother. My expectation would be that she would respect the understanding my husband says we have...not prolong my incapacity for her own inability to let go of me.

The view of a parent is likely to be different than that of spouse, on many issues. I can sympathize with the parents, but I do not agree with them. I trust now that I am married, that my husband would make responsible and meaningful decisions about my life should I not be able to make them for myself.

I do hope Terri is able to pass quickly and painlessly.

ejr wrote:This is all so sad to watch. Sam, you and I got into discussions about this last time around, and I continue to respect you, your opinions, and all that you and your family have been through (and I value that this discussion has taken place without anyone resorting to the childishness so many discussions here have become). You and I disagree on this, and that is fine.

But the law says that this is the husband's call-not her parents, not the courts and not the governor. If the husband and parents' positions were reversed, while I would then disagree with the husband, I know that his position would be the one honored.

Yes it is unfortunate that Terri's wishes are not in writing, but if we do not honor and respect the wishes of the husband, the one who legally has the call, and if we continue to drag this out in court, the law becomes meaningless.

Nobody will come out the winner here, but this does need to be resolved and it seems to me that the law is pretty clear here.

ejr,
I remember and I respect your opinions as well. My whole point about this situation is the law and what happened to the money and why he denied the family those tests for all those years and why did he deicide to remember within the last year or so her alledged wishes.
I thank you for your kind words. I hope you and everyone here, never have to experience, anything even remotely close to any of those things I and my surviving sisters had to.

*************************************************************
This is a human life we are talking about....something very precious....If her wishes were so important to him why did he wait 15 years or so before bringing this up?

What about the money that was awarded to pay for her long term care?

Why has everyone overlooked this?

BB,
I am quite sure there are many things you and your husband discuss that is no one else's business.
The point is now moot, but I told my parents and my friends of my wishes
if I were to be in such situation. This was long before I ever heard of a Living Will. This was/is something important enough that I talked over with them to ensure that my wishes be known and be carried out.

I know all of us can opine as to what we would like to think or how we think we would feel at any given moment about what we would want to happen, if we were subjected to such tragic circumstances, but if there was any chance at all that deep inside you,...you knew you were alive and you continued to live...and no matter how hard you tried to communicate you were alive and still inside. Life is a gift and very precious. Something to hold and cherish.

I know of many people that have told me, they could not live if they lost a limb. Yet many do live with the loss of one or more limbs or are pararylized from the neck down, Christopher Reeves comes to mind. Stephen Hawking alsocomes to mind, suffering a most terrible and debilating disease....I could get personal here but I won't, no need to.

I am not looking for arguements, I am merely pointing out that perhaps she could have made or possibly never made those claims, unfortunately we only have her husbands word for it and he stands to collect financial gain from her death.

I feel that this should be investigated before she is killed. If she is not inside, then it will not matter,...if she is inside, then she deserves every opportunity and chance she can be given. What if she never made such a statement to him? Would you admit that possibility? Would that change your views?

It is tragedy enough of what happened to her and to her family, let alone bringing this upon everyone in the public and court system, but to kill her based upon the word of the one person that stands to gain financially and never mentioned any of this before,...is downright crimminal and past the borderline of obscene.

Sam wrote:He DID NOT bring this up until all the money was gone.... What happened to all the money that SHE was awarded to take care of her?

$300,000 over the course of 15 years isn't that much money when you are paying for this kind of care.

I highly doubt him refusing the tests because of not wanting to have them done...

He didn't wait 15 years to bring up the fact that she didn't want to be kept alive artificially... that's why this has been in the courts for so long, and Terri's suffering continues while her parents want to hold on, her husband is trying to let go, gain closure and grant his wife's wishes...

Any financial gain that comes to Mr Schiavo will go to legal and medical bills, funeral arrangements, and while there may be a paltry sum left over, shouldn't his suffering over the past 15 years be taken into consideration too?
No, he wasn't a vegetable like Terri is, but if you had to see your spouse in that same situation every day, don't you think it would take it's toll on you?
Unless you've walked a mile in his shoes...