Please pray for Terri Schiavo

Gulfbreeze · Post by **Gulfbreeze** » March 8, 2005 10:31 pm

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:
jxnparrothead wrote:Don't ya just hate it when a thread gets hijacked??

Nice...... That would be a picture of Captain John Testrake, the pilot of TWA 847, hijacked by terrorists in June, 1985. Let's see, if memory serves, those same terrorists beat the sh*t out of Petty Officer Robert Stetham, U.S. Navy, shot him in the head, and dumped his body on the tarmac.

Pretty tasteless post, IMHO, and about as unfunny as one can get.

should have been here earlier...no wait, be thankful you weren't...it was even more disgusting...

SchoolGirlHeart · Post by **SchoolGirlHeart** » March 8, 2005 10:36 pm

Gulfbreeze wrote:should have been here earlier...no wait, be thankful you weren't...it was even more disgusting...

in which case, I'm thankful I wasn't...... this is what some parrotheads are about? for shame.....

DonnaKayDunbar · Post by **DonnaKayDunbar** » March 8, 2005 10:45 pm

I guess you can only take so much of someone's extremist views... so... with that, I post a link.

If you're easily offended, please don't click it.

**edited for extra sensetivity**

I think it's kind of amusing, but you don't have to look at it if you don't want to.

Not directed at anyone in particular, moreso about the entire situation.

(It's a joke, you know, not to be taken seriously.)

ragtopW · Post by **ragtopW** » March 8, 2005 10:47 pm

DonnaKayDunbar wrote:I guess you can only take so much of someone's extremist views... so... with that, I post a link.

If you're easily offended, please don't click it.

http://matrix.netsoc.tcd.ie/~64ndhi/pro ... ngjump.jpg

I think it's kind of amusing, but you don't have to look at it if you don't want to.

Not directed at anyone in particular, moreso about the entire situation.

(It's a joke, you know, not to be taken seriously.)

you are a sick puppy I have always liked that about you

DonnaKayDunbar · Post by **DonnaKayDunbar** » March 8, 2005 10:49 pm

ragtopW wrote: you are a sick puppy I have always liked that about you

It's part of my charm.

springparrot · Post by **springparrot** » March 8, 2005 11:03 pm

DonnaKayDunbar wrote:I guess you can only take so much of someone's extremist views... so... with that, I post a link.

If you're easily offended, please don't click it.

http://matrix.netsoc.tcd.ie/~64ndhi/pro ... ngjump.jpg

I think it's kind of amusing, but you don't have to look at it if you don't want to.

I don't care why you posted it...but in my opinion, that is tasteless.
Again, my opinion.

DonnaKayDunbar · Post by **DonnaKayDunbar** » March 8, 2005 11:06 pm

springparrot wrote: I don't care why you posted it...but in my opinion, that is tasteless.
Again, my opinion.

That's ok, I respect your opinion, that's why I didn't post the image here, so if you came back to the post, you wouldn't have to see it unless you clicked it.

(I've got enough tact to not post the image)

Post by **SMLCHNG** » March 8, 2005 11:18 pm

Geez...... enough already people.

springparrot · Post by **springparrot** » March 8, 2005 11:26 pm

Penny--it might be time to lock this one before it gets uglier.

Post by **SMLCHNG** » March 8, 2005 11:28 pm

springparrot wrote:Penny--it might be time to lock this one before it gets uglier.

Wish I could, Molly.. I would.....

SchoolGirlHeart · Post by **SchoolGirlHeart** » March 8, 2005 11:30 pm

Although I've mostly chosen to stay out of this discussion, I think lots of points have been made and there's been plenty of good, wide-ranging discussion; I'd actually rather not see it get locked, for the sake of the people who are actually discussing the issues at hand. It's the tasteless posts that are mostly off-topic that bug the crap out of me.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » March 8, 2005 11:56 pm

ph4ever wrote:
Sam wrote:
ph4ever wrote:
Sam wrote: Do I have the Right to question the motives of her husband that waited 8 years before deciding to remember a one time conversation? I think the Guardian Ad Litem addresses this issue in the report - at least it gave a clear understanding of Michael's position.

Do I have a Right to question that death by starvation should be considered humane treatment? You do have the right to question just as I have the right to question is leaving her in this vegative state that the majority of physicians who have examined her feel she will never recover from a form of cruel and unusal punishment and inhumane treatement.

As for empathy and what I feel about the whole situation,...do I have the Right to feel the way I do? Show me where I said you didn't have the right

Have I ever said no one has the Right to feel differently?

All of us hurt from this tragedy. agreed 100%

Some, maybe all, have tried to think what is best for Terri. Some try to imagine what it must be like for Terri and her family and for her husband. I believe I fall in that category as well as you

Can anyone honestly say that they actually know Terri is not inside?
If she is not inside then she cannot be feeling any pain and is whereever the transition from life to death takes us. How do you know there is always pain during the transition from life to death? The information I've read regardiing vegatative state all say the longer a person is in a vegative state the less likely they are to recover. The longest vegative state I've found where someone recovered is 3 months vegatative state with recovery.

Can anyone honestly say who will or will not recover? the majority of physicians that have examined her say she won't recover.

Does she deserve every chance at life or any potential or possible recovery? Where do we draw the line. When does leaving someone in a vegative state become an act of kindness/mercy or cruel and unusual punishment?

One thing for sure....killing her will deny any chance....
Please read the report

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/WolfsonReport.pdf
Three out of Five doctors. Yes there were 5 doctors that did evalueate her for the court. But let's not forget the countless number of physicians she has seen in California as well as FloridaOkies so you want to kill someone that has no voice... she has no brain left that would enable her to talk. that's why the court appointed the Guardian Ad Litem
Who is wanting to push their views permanently upon someone?
Didn't you accuse me of saying only my views were valid or some such? no, what I said is you act as if it is a personal attack against you if someone disgrees with you
At least I am against starving someone to death.... Her brain - which controlled her personality, her speach, her life is no longer there - she is but a body whose brain is gone but the body dosn't realize it - which is more cruel - allowing her to possibly suffer for God knows how long or to finally be at peace with God?

Death as we know it is a forever end to life as we know it to be. Yes it is however I also believe there is life after death - in heaven or hell be it where you are destined to go. Why deny a person to travel to that plane? If it is time to let go it's time to let go and let the person go. Her time to go was quite possibly long ago. It's not my place to judge. Is it yours?
Again I ask YOU DO YOU KNOW BEYOND A SHADOW OF DOUBT of her status or only what you have read? And I ask you DO YOU KNOW BEYOND A SHADOW OF DOUBT OF HER STATUS?? I have read the Guardian Ad Litem report which was based on all the documents both medical and legal as well his his visits with all parties concerned. Have you read it?
As for myself...I only know what I have read and I do find the motives of waiting 8 years to recall an alledged onetime conversation, questionable.
The Guardian Ad Litem report addresses this point but again I ask, did you even bother to read it? Also this aleged one time conversation took place in the presence of 2 witnesses whose testmony was deemed as hearsay. Is it not possible that the conversation actually took place considering the 2 witnesses?? And it dosn't matter who they are. It would be like your close friend telling you, and your sister and brother in law that she didn not want to be kept alive by a supported means. During those 8 years she saw countless specialists and was even taken to California for surgery in hopes that what was left of her brain would be stimulated by implants. The surgery did not work.

I know I find death by starvation to be quite horrible....no matter what drugs are induced. If she is not there why induce the drugs and admit what you want done is plainly killing someone ... taking a life. Why give drugs to someone that is not there? Is that saying we don't know if she is in there or not?

Will you deny her any further examinations or therapy or treatments, if any, are available? You certainly will if you take her life...
How badly to you want to take her life? Is she suffering, if she is not inside? How can one determine that? Seems you and others have said so, so the rest of us must believe it and condone her death by starvation?
Again who is mandating their views are the only correct one to have?
Who is going for the abolute end?
Death (no matter what nice name you want to call it ) seems pretty permanent end to me!

Who will be next on your list?

Where will you stop?

Who will die of starvation next? And what does that say of your moral obligation to your fellow human? And who are you to question my moral values or my obligation to fellow humans. First you know NOTHING of my life and what I've been thru or what I have done for other humans. You pass judgement on me with statement when it is not your place to judge me. You talk of morals - what type of morals are you showing here? Last I heard there was only one person with the ability to judge my morals and pass judgement on me and you're not God.

None of us REALLY KNOW if Terri is inside or not do we?

People are placing their values and judgement on someone else and wanting that person to die.
All of the medical information I have read clearly indicates that she has little to no brain left - it's all mush from being deprived of oxygen. In essence she is just on the cusp of brain dead only her body dosn't know it. If you have read something to the contrary please post a link so I may be informed.

I find your line of questioning me (highlighted in blue) to be most disturbing. You act as if I am the sole person responsible for Terri's care and outcome and that simply is not the case and you know it. You post to me in a condeming manner as if I am a evil murder for my beliefs. So in following your line of post does that make you a person who commends human torture. Do YOU know for a fact that she is not living a tortorus existance? Personally if she is suffering I wish her no more suffering at all be it by death or by being placed in the care and custody of her parents. What do you wish for her?? I personally don't care about her husband my only concern is if Terri's possible suffering and what can be done to eliminate such suffering in her life.

Judge not for you be judged yourself and in the same manner that you judge, you will be judged.

After all of your tirade I can only say you have no trouble questioning my view on the issue and I am not the one that wants to kill someone....call it what you will it still ammounts to causing the intentional death.

If Terri is not inside then what can one say? Why give drugs and waste money on something that is not alive?

IF Terri is in fact inside then are you imposing your wishes upon her or what?
Can you prove the conversation did take place?

I do not have to prove it either way....I merely have questions about it.

I have not judged you or your views...I only raised questions none of which were condemning of you.

I do believe you mentioned there were over 30,000 pages in that report.. no I did not read them.Glad to know that you found the report interesting and had time to read them.

You posted the article and I merely responded to it.You told/asked me not to mention the Pope. Clearly your mindset is your own and you are telling me I am wrong for my views.

I have repeatedly said I do not know anything about Terri's condition, ( apparently you do not either) except what I read and seen on the news of Terri's condition. Unless you have personally evaluated her you do not know any more about her, than I or anyone here does.

People have come out of long term comas...I don't know if Terri is inside or not and have repeatedly said so.
Doctors have made wrong pronosis in the past.
Can Terri come back in any semblance? I really do not know...

I do know if she is starved to death the answer will be be an emphatic NO and her death would be intentional and last time I looked, the intentional taking of an innocent life is a crimminal offense.

You support the intentional starvation of her. I clearly do not! I have not condemned or accused you anywhere. Your view is your own just as mine is mine own or the vies of others that have posted here are the views of the respected poster.

Am I for toture? Until you can prove Terri is being tortured, No I cannot prove that she is or is not...but I am not for starving her to death. Can you claim causing intentional starvation is humane treatment and not torture?

If her brain is "all mush" as you claim based upon what you have read how can that be torture? Her husband let her be tortured for 8 years using your logic...before he bothered to remember an alledged one time conversation....

Post by **SMLCHNG** » March 9, 2005 12:02 am

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:Although I've mostly chosen to stay out of this discussion, I think lots of points have been made and there's been plenty of good, wide-ranging discussion; I'd actually rather not see it get locked, for the sake of the people who are actually discussing the issues at hand. It's the tasteless posts that are mostly off-topic that bug the crap out of me.

Agreed, Jen. Unfortunately, there are WAAAAY too many of the tasteless posts.

Tiki Bar · Post by **Tiki Bar** » March 9, 2005 12:08 am

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:I'd actually rather not see it get locked, for the sake of the people who are actually discussing the issues at hand.

Out of fairness to participants in the discussion, I'm holding off on locking it for now. But the tasteless activity within the thread has it hanging by a thread, and if it continues to present itself, it will be locked.

SchoolGirlHeart · Post by **SchoolGirlHeart** » March 9, 2005 12:14 am

Tiki Bar wrote:
SchoolGirlHeart wrote:I'd actually rather not see it get locked, for the sake of the people who are actually discussing the issues at hand.
Out of fairness to participants in the discussion, I'm holding off on locking it for now. But the tasteless activity within the thread has it hanging by a thread, and if it continues to present itself, it will be locked.

Maybe in this case, it might be appropriate to delete some of the offensive off-topic posts, and let the few who are trying to debate the issue have at it.....

(P.S. I speak somewhat from a position of ignorance.... Some of the offensive material is probably buried in some of the novella-length posts, but I haven't had the time or the inclination to wade through them...)

No amount of talkin' can change a mind that's been made up.... ~~ Mac McAnally

springparrot · Post by **springparrot** » March 9, 2005 12:15 am

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:
No amount of talkin' can change a mind that's been made up.... ~~ Mac McAnally

GREAT quote, Jen!!!

Gulfbreeze · Post by **Gulfbreeze** » March 9, 2005 12:24 am

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:
Tiki Bar wrote:
SchoolGirlHeart wrote:I'd actually rather not see it get locked, for the sake of the people who are actually discussing the issues at hand.
Out of fairness to participants in the discussion, I'm holding off on locking it for now. But the tasteless activity within the thread has it hanging by a thread, and if it continues to present itself, it will be locked.
Maybe in this case, it might be appropriate to delete some of the offensive off-topic posts, and let the few who are trying to debate the issue have at it.....

(P.S. I speak somewhat from a position of ignorance.... Some of the offensive material is probably buried in some of the novella-length posts, but I haven't had the time or the inclination to wade through them...)

No amount of talkin' can change a mind that's been made up.... ~~ Mac McAnally

The mods have done a very good job getting rid of the really repulsive pics in here...would have made you sick..so I applaud them all...it was very ugly...

Sam · Post by **Sam** » March 9, 2005 12:29 am

springparrot wrote:
SchoolGirlHeart wrote:
No amount of talkin' can change a mind that's been made up.... ~~ Mac McAnally
GREAT quote, Jen!!!

DITTO!!!

I made my peace with those that I offended or felt offended me.

THE BAR IS OPEN
Lee break out your git'fiddle we need some tuneage!

Post by **SMLCHNG** » March 9, 2005 12:36 am

Gulfbreeze wrote:The mods have done a very good job getting rid of the really repulsive pics in here...would have made you sick..so I applaud them all...it was very ugly...

You're such a s*** up.

But seriously? Thank you. I can't delete them here in OT.

But I would have if I could have. And whoever did, I sent my my thanks to.

Gulfbreeze · Post by **Gulfbreeze** » March 9, 2005 12:49 am

SMLCHNG wrote:
Gulfbreeze wrote:The mods have done a very good job getting rid of the really repulsive pics in here...would have made you sick..so I applaud them all...it was very ugly...
You're such a s*** up.

I got you wrapped right around my little finger...