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Sam wrote: Who tossed out the first insults in an otherwise civil conversation???

You.

I've never commented on you or your family.

I can be serious any time you want... can you?

One of my best friends just went through this with her husband. So while I haven't walked in those shoes, I've held the hand of someone walking in them, trying to cope with the fact that her soulmate would never recover, which was bad enough, but then the legal battle to let his body be at peace on top of it very nearly killed her too (literally- the stress made her not hungry, so she didn't eat, lost 1/3 of her body weight and ended up in the ICU for a very short time, then ended up with meningitis).

And I think that's the root of it- both of these are situations where the people will not recover. Could Mark have lived for years with a feeding tube? Probably, but to what end? So he could get bedsores and be in more pain until his body caught up with his mind? He was gone before he got to the hospital, and no amount of time would bring him back. It wasn't about protecting his life- his life was over, it was his body that just hadn't caught up yet.

Sam wrote:

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:Sam, knowing what you went thru with your family, I will understand if you can't or don't want to answer this question.

Would you have kept them on life support for 15 years if given that opportunity? I'm curious, since I really don't know anyone who has been in a situation like that, except for you, if you understand what I mean.

And even though Terri is their child, she is a grown woman. I wonder if people's feelings would be different if she were indeed a child?

I went thru a lot of this type discussion in college while dealing with head trauma clients. For me it has always come down to quality of life. If there is no quality of life, if I am a shell of what I once was, if I am merely existing, please pull the plug. I know my family feels the same as well...but it is indeed a personal choice and NEEDS to be discussed with those you love, as well as put in writing.

BEG,
I thank you for maintaining a civil attitude.... all of my sibblings were still my parents children...they always will be...no matter what.
When you are there and I hope you never are, I hope no one is ever placed inthat situation. However I am not naive enough to say it won't happen to anyone ever again.

Let me know when you choose to answer my questions then I will answer yours....I will say this much for now, please tell me how many parents you know of, would calmly and complacentlyand willingly, allow their child to starve to death.......

I don't understand why you can't answer my questions without me answering yours...didn't realize that was how this game was played. However, I will play along.

Is removing the feeding tube the most humane option? Perhaps not, but unfortunately it is the only option available right now in these situations. And I know as difficult as it would be for my folks, they would indeed do so, because I would have no quality of life. Like I said, merely existing is not an option for me, and they know that. The same holds true for them, if it comes down to it, they will not be kept alive by artificial means. IMHO, some of the "advancements" we've made in lifesaving techniques have not always been the best option for folks...but we dont have a crystal ball to see how things will come out, unfortunately. We have to live with the choices we make.

I don't think any parent would be calm or complacent while making that choice, you're assuming a lot there. I think they would be full of grief, but if they knew it was their child's wish, then they would do so with a clear conscience. They will grieve their loss like anyone else would.

Key Lime Lee wrote:

Sam wrote: Who tossed out the first insults in an otherwise civil conversation???

You.

I've never commented on you or your family.

I can be serious any time you want... can you?

You have dodged most every question I have asked. Who insulted who with the comment about too many drugs? I have been serious in all of my comments and expressing my opininion.
Not my fault you are what you are. Not only are you a blatant liar, you are also not worthy of any other response or my time.

Ya know Sam, I realize that you've experinced more losses than most of us, but that does not make your opinion on this matter any more valid than those of anyone else. And it certainly doesn't entitle you to be such a dick towards those of us with whom you disagree.

You haven't changed my views on euthanasia, but you have certainly made me a big supporter of birth control and/or abortion...

rednekkPH wrote:Ya know Sam, I realize that you've experinced more losses than most of us, but that does not make your opinion on this matter any more valid than those of anyone else. And it certainly doesn't entitle you to be such a dick towards those of us with whom you disagree.

You haven't changed my views on euthanasia, but you have certainly made me a big supporter of birth control and/or abortion...

Agreed. Yes, you've had more than your share of heartache, Sam, but please realize that other people can and will continue to have conflicting opinions, so just as others are respecting your opinion, you need to respect their positions too.

There's enough room for us all to play nice and be individuals.

Sam wrote:

Key Lime Lee wrote:

Sam wrote: Who tossed out the first insults in an otherwise civil conversation???

You.

I've never commented on you or your family.

I can be serious any time you want... can you?

You have dodged most every question I have asked. Who insulted who with the comment about too many drugs? I have been serious in all of my comments and expressing my opininion.
Not my fault you are what you are. Not only are you a blatant liar, you are also not worthy of any other response or my time.

My sincere apologies Sam if you thought I was seriously implying that you do drugs.

Bizarre that anyone would take it that personally but hey...

And a liar? Nah. Just stupid enough to think you're capable of a discussion... my fault. Won't make that mistake again.

Sam wrote:Not my fault you are what you are. Not only are you a blatant liar, you are also not worthy of any other response or my time.

Sam? I know what you have been through with your loved ones. And this is a very emotional subject for you. Ok?

But Lee is not a blatant liar. I know him, as well.

Maybe it's time for all of us to step back from this topic a bit and regroup.

And if anyone cares for my opinion?

I love my parents, my child, and Elrod. And I would not like to see any of them being kept alive 'artificially'.

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:

Sam wrote:

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:Sam, knowing what you went thru with your family, I will understand if you can't or don't want to answer this question.

Would you have kept them on life support for 15 years if given that opportunity? I'm curious, since I really don't know anyone who has been in a situation like that, except for you, if you understand what I mean.

And even though Terri is their child, she is a grown woman. I wonder if people's feelings would be different if she were indeed a child?

I went thru a lot of this type discussion in college while dealing with head trauma clients. For me it has always come down to quality of life. If there is no quality of life, if I am a shell of what I once was, if I am merely existing, please pull the plug. I know my family feels the same as well...but it is indeed a personal choice and NEEDS to be discussed with those you love, as well as put in writing.

BEG,
I thank you for maintaining a civil attitude.... all of my sibblings were still my parents children...they always will be...no matter what.
When you are there and I hope you never are, I hope no one is ever placed inthat situation. However I am not naive enough to say it won't happen to anyone ever again.

Let me know when you choose to answer my questions then I will answer yours....I will say this much for now, please tell me how many parents you know of, would calmly and complacentlyand willingly, allow their child to starve to death.......

I don't understand why you can't answer my questions without me answering yours...didn't realize that was how this game was played. However, I will play along.

Is removing the feeding tube the most humane option? Perhaps not, but unfortunately it is the only option available right now in these situations. And I know as difficult as it would be for my folks, they would indeed do so, because I would have no quality of life. Like I said, merely existing is not an option for me, and they know that. The same holds true for them, if it comes down to it, they will not be kept alive by artificial means. IMHO, some of the "advancements" we've made in lifesaving techniques have not always been the best option for folks...but we dont have a crystal ball to see how things will come out, unfortunately. We have to live with the choices we make.

I don't think any parent would be calm or complacent while making that choice, you're assuming a lot there. I think they would be full of grief, but if they knew it was their child's wish, then they would do so with a clear conscience. They will grieve their loss like anyone else would.

BEG,
What game?
I asked questions that have not been answered and if no one answers mine,...why should I bother to answer theirs? Game? I don't see it as any game....I see it as mutual respect. You want answers. I want answers....I asked questions in my first post that have been blatantly avoided.

Your last paragraph says it all. So why are her parents so selfish? I assume nothing. I point out the possibility that her husband is lying and he claimed she only told him such one time. I pointed out that he stands to gain financially. So tell us where was her husband's case 15 years ago !

So why are people blaming the parents who are personally INVOLVED , that want what they they feel is best for THEIR daughter? Look at the comments being made in here about Terri and the case.

How many have thought about the far reaching repercussions of Terri's situation?
Again I will say if she had a Living Will all of this will be moot, however all we have is the husband's claim that she told him ONE TIME....
Terri is breathing on her own.......she only requires the food tube and hygiene and basic care....yet so many of you want to kill her.....and condemn the parents for wanting their child kept alive but not me nor one of you really has the right to tear a family apart. As long as Terri is alive she deserves dignity and respect and none of us know what her actual wishes are or were.

Everyone can opine as to what they would or will or want.....I just wish Terri had made her position clear to everyone and not just some alledged
comment to the one and only person that stands to gain financially from her death.

How many would believe her if she was capalble of talking and she were to say I never told him that.......?

SMLCHNG wrote:

Sam wrote:Not my fault you are what you are. Not only are you a blatant liar, you are also not worthy of any other response or my time.

Sam? I know what you have been through with your loved ones. And this is a very emotional subject for you. Ok?

But Lee is not a blatant liar. I know him, as well.

Maybe it's time for all of us to step back from this topic a bit and regroup.

Well said, Penny.

The single unambiguous take-away I can see from this tragic situation is the same thing others have already said: make sure your wishes are clearly articulated with all of your loved ones, and have your lawyer put it in writing, in the strongest legal terms possible.

Well I have been respecting everyone's opine on the issue and I did not insult or attack anyone. Not one person, from ejr to whoever else that posted, there were no insults and no slams....just discussion.

Yet when I am blatantly insulted and accused by someone that also accuses me of starting the attack......pardon me while I go back and reassess who insulted who then turns around and accuses me of attacking?
One need only scroll back through the previous posts.... KLL DID BLATANTLY LIE about me. You want to defend him.........go for it....your choice but if you read what wwas posted by him and decide the same , oh well...

You expect me to eat that crap like pablum fed to a baby? I don't take that kind of crap from anyone and I am not about to start now. I am me and not a plastic person. I lived what I have lived through. I don't wear it like any chip nor do I rub anyone's nose into it. It happened. I would not wish it on anyone.

Perhaps just perhaps..........if people ....................


KLL your apology is about as sincere and real as you are! I already made my statements about letting me know when you decide to get real....keep slamming me and my family if you choose, instead of discussing the issue at hand...

Sam I posed my questions simply to gain more insight into what you would have done if given the choice, since you had a similar situation. My questions were not related to your original questions, therefore I was not avoiding them. And yet it appears that over and over you have avoided answering the difficult questions asked of you by in turn asking more questions or refusing to until someone addresses yours, whether or not that was their point. That is the "game" I was referring to.

I gather from your response that quality of life to you means existing...breathing in and out, yet unable to care for yourself, do anything, and unable to voice any of your feelings. If you are fine with that, so be it. It would not be my choice...I might be alive but I would for sure not be living.

I have to wonder, if given the choice, would Terri continue to want to exist like this? Or would she take her own life if she was capable of doing so, rather than existing.

Sam wrote:KLL your apology is about as sincere and real as you are!

Well I do think Descartes went too far with the whole "I think therefore I am" thing but...

(checking self)

Yep. Still real.

Not sure how I lied about you but I'm sure you'll tell me eventually in a really long email with lots of capital letters.

Sam,

None of us wants to kill Terri, rather let her body be at peace.

15 years ago Mr Schiavo was contending the same thing, but it went to court 7 years ago because after 8 years of testing and around the clock medical care nothing had come about.

There are many things that I wouldn't discuss with my parents, may they rest in peace, specifically about religion and right to die.

With her parents being Roman Catholic doesn't mean that she was practicing the same religion, and certainly doesn't give them the right to impose their beliefs on her after her demise.

What it comes down to is every situation is different, and wither you (or anyone else) like it or not, the tube will be removed by the order of the court no matter who her caretaker is.

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:Sam I posed my questions simply to gain more insight into what you would have done if given the choice, since you had a similar situation. My questions were not related to your original questions, therefore I was not avoiding them. And yet it appears that over and over you have avoided answering the difficult questions asked of you by in turn asking more questions or refusing to until someone addresses yours, whether or not that was their point. That is the "game" I was referring to.

I gather from your response that quality of life to you means existing...breathing in and out, yet unable to care for yourself, do anything, and unable to voice any of your feelings. If you are fine with that, so be it. It would not be my choice...I might be alive but I would for sure not be living.

I have to wonder, if given the choice, would Terri continue to want to exist like this? Or would she take her own life if she was capable of doing so, rather than existing.

Infer what you will..when people decide to answer me or deem my questions worthy of answers then I will consider questions asked of me to be such. I mean this as no insult to you or to anyone. As I stated I want answers...you see how many I have gotten ...Why do you feel you deserve answers more than I do???

Since someone accused me of obsseing with Stephen Hawking let me ask you.....how much can he do for himself? Would you kill him simply because he is incapable of feeding himself?

No matter what nice name anyone wants to call it it is still killing.....and the taking of a life..........that is what it comes down to....Who knows what Terri would say in her own defense.she breathes on her own.she needs a feeding tube......using that analogy ....what does that say about everyone else on a feeding tube that is in a coma or vegitative state? We want to do what is kindest for the person, I believe all of us really do, But letting someone starve to death when there is no reason for it other than the supposed mention of it only once..... To someone that will gain financially upon her death.....Who will the courts decide who dies next... the courts are not triage nor are they allowed to practice medicine...that I know of...
do you know different?

Key Lime Lee wrote:

Sam wrote:KLL your apology is about as sincere and real as you are!

Well I do think Descartes went too far with the whole "I think therefore I am" thing but...

(checking self)

Yep. Still real.

Not sure how I lied about you but I'm sure you'll tell me eventually in a really long email with lots of capital letters.

Email you?I doubt I need not waste my time nor do I have or want your email address....

Anyone that cares to know or wants to see how you lied about me only scroll back and read......

DonnaKayDunbar wrote:

rednekkPH wrote:Ya know Sam, I realize that you've experinced more losses than most of us, but that does not make your opinion on this matter any more valid than those of anyone else. And it certainly doesn't entitle you to be such a dick towards those of us with whom you disagree.

You haven't changed my views on euthanasia, but you have certainly made me a big supporter of birth control and/or abortion...

Agreed. Yes, you've had more than your share of heartache, Sam, but please realize that other people can and will continue to have conflicting opinions, so just as others are respecting your opinion, you need to respect their positions too.

There's enough room for us all to play nice and be individuals.

Please by all means, Please show where I said my opinion are/were/was more important or valid than anyone else's........ Please show where I insulted or attacked anyone for expressing their opinion other than being attacked by Key Lime Lee and my responses were in defending myself....or is there a problem with people defending themselves? Surely you do not expect people to roll over like a dog, and offer their belly and throat in submission..... do you?

Sam wrote:
Anyone that cares to know or wants to see how you lied about me only scroll back and read......

Yeah, still not seeing it.

I do see where you said you were done replying to me.. does that make you a brother liar?

Sam wrote:Anyone that cares to know or wants to see how you lied about me only scroll back and read......

I scrolled back and read. I don't see it.......

The KLL I know (in person, not just online) is not a liar.....

Can certain people-who-shall-remain-nameless please stop acting like spoiled 6 year olds?

What with the name calling and all...