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Posted: March 22, 2005 12:55 pm
by mermaidindisguise
I heard a discussion this am about the actual removal of the tube....they were saying that her brain cannot process the actual lack of food - therefore I am thinking (hoping I guess) that she will noteven realize that she is starving. Why again are we prolonging her going to heaven?
Without trying to sound like the barbarian, killer that so many of you like to accuse us of... I am just asking why you feel her lying in a bed for the rest of her life is better than her going to heaven. If I were God I would be taking this a little personal by now. I have alot more concern for little children starving - and there are MANY that have feelings and can feel the starvation... where are your threads voicing your concerns for these children???? Once again - 15 YEARS of your life on a bed and you want to have that continue until she is 60? 70? 80?
No one in their right mind would want this... I know it is hard for the parents... but they really are being selfish at this point. When someone dies ... WE miss them WE want them to stay WE are sad..... that is selfish on our part and we have to be strong and let them go the way nature intended it - no matter how sad that may make us - but as long as we remember they are moving on to a better place - that is what makes it ok...
I for one will be so happy for Teri when she is finally at peace and isn't lying in a bed with tubes coming out of her. I still haven't read any responses to what is so horrible about heaven..... I would love to hear what all you pro-feeding tubers have to say about that. I'm sure God would like to hear why as well
Posted: March 22, 2005 12:56 pm
by Wino you know
There should be a 12th commandment too. "Thou shalt not call themselves a Republican with the sole intention of getting elected."
Classic example-Mr. Ginsberg, Bloomstein, or whatever the mayor of N.Y.C.s name is. Seems to go on in Florida too.
Posted: March 22, 2005 12:57 pm
by AlbatrossFlyer
Wino you know wrote:There should be a 12th commandment too. "Thou shalt not call themselves a Republican with the sole intention of getting elected."
Classic example-Mr. Ginsberg, Bloomstein, or whatever the mayor of N.Y.C.s name is. Seems to go on in Florida too.
its' bloomberg and NYC is something like 70% registered democrat, 30% republican. as a former NY'er running as a republican isn't brightest idea to get elected anywhere in NY.
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:00 pm
by Blonde Stranger
Wino you know wrote:A LIBERAL JUDGE with no political leanings???
COME ON! I may have been born at night, but I wasn't born LAST NIGHT!
OF COURSE his "collegues" are going to say his stuff doesn't stink!
Even JUDGES have friends.
Your statements have no basis in fact.
Here's another article, which you will no doubt also dismiss out of hand. By the way, Judge Whittemore is a registered Republican, that's how liberal he is.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascit ... 195729.htm
Judge weighing Schiavo's fate known for by-the-book ways
BY NOAH BIERMAN
Knight Ridder Newspapers
TAMPA, Fla. - (KRT) - Congress broke with tradition by meeting on Palm Sunday to pass a bill that could get Terri Schiavo back on a feeding tube. The president of the United States interrupted his vacation and a good night's sleep to sign the bill into law.
But the man with the real power to make the decision, U.S. District Judge James Whittemore, made it clear Monday that he won't be stampeded. He adjourned his court hearing on Schiavo's fate without making any decision.
People who know him aren't surprised that he would handle this extraordinary case in a completely ordinary way. Lawyers say his hallmark is a by-the-book demeanor.
"He's very deliberate, cautious, well-reasoned," said Lansing Scriven, president-elect of the Hillsborough County Bar Association, who appeared before Whittemore several times when Whittemore was a state court judge.
The bar association's current president offered a similar view. "I don't think he'll be persuaded by popular belief, nor do I think he'll respond to philosophical pressures," said Bill Schifino.
It's hard to place Whittemore on an ideological grid. He's a registered Republican who was appointed to the bench by Democratic President Bill Clinton.
In 15 years as a judge in federal and state court, Whittemore has made headlines in the Tampa Bay area for issues as diverse as professional football and baseball, school uniforms, outlaw motorcycle gangs and sex shops.
Lawyers who have come before him say he's not the type to showboat when the press shows up. And his rulings show no particular tilt on the political scale.
"He couldn't care less about the spotlight," said Tom Morrison, a lawyer who argued before Whittemore in a lawsuit challenging the building of a football stadium for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers with public money.
Morrison lost the case but still praises Whittemore for ruling clearly and keeping the case from becoming a circus despite the combination of football, politics, public money and the media.
Morrison, like others, doubts Whittemore was glad to get the Schiavo case. Judges are assigned cases at random.
"I don't know that anybody would relish being part of the Schiavo case," Morrison said.
George Greer, the Florida circuit judge who's made most of the critical rulings in the Schiavo case over the years, has been so vilified by those who disagree with his rulings that he had to leave his own church.
With that backdrop, Whittemore's friends and family were skittish Monday in talking about him.
"He'll follow the law. Beyond that, I don't think there are other factors I should comment on," said Kent Whittemore, the judge's brother and a prominent lawyer in nearby St. Petersburg. "Personal life has no bearing on it."
Whittemore earned his bachelor's degree from the University of Florida and his law degree from Stetson University College of Law before joining the federal public defender's office in 1978, where he served three years before going into private practice. In 1990, he was appointed circuit judge in Hillsborough County, where Tampa is located.
Cases he handled as a state judge included the stadium suit, in which he allowed ballot language for an initiative to use public money to build Raymond James Stadium for the Buccaneers. He also sided with the city of Tampa when it was sued by Hillsborough County for allowing a sex shop too close to county residents.
He's known for doing his own research. Schifino remembers in one case Whittemore got out his own law book and found a more relevant example than either side could muster to make sure he was following precedent when he made his rulings.
The Florida Bar's young lawyers' division named Whittemore top state judge in 1999. The next year, after 10 years as a state judge, he was confirmed by the U.S. Senate to fill a lifetime position on the federal bench.
The issues got more complicated on the federal bench.
Whittemore had a second high-profile sports case in 2001, ruling that a Cuban defector, pitcher Rolando Viera, couldn't skip the Major League Baseball draft if he wanted to play. He also rejected a claim by a group of parents of elementary school children who wanted him to declare school uniforms unconstitutional. The 2002 ruling was among the first in the nation to address mandatory school uniforms.
Schifino said Whittemore's time as a state judge would make him sensitive to the history of the Schiavo case, which had been reviewed in state court for more than a decade before it came to him.
"The judge will take a clean, fresh look at whatever he's been asked to look at, but at the same time, as with any member of our judiciary, I think they respect the notion of judicial independence," Schifino said.
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:01 pm
by Wino you know
Albatross Flyer wrote:it's Bloomberg
oh yeah, BLOOMBERG!
my bad. 
Normally I'd agree with you-running as a republican in NY is surely political suicide, however, given the immense popularity of Rudy Guiliani as mayor of NYC, going as a republican in THAT particular election wasn't exactly the dumbest thing Bloomberg could have done either.
By the way-I'm STILL perplexed at the fact that Governor Pataki (whom I like very much) was able to get elected three times.
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:12 pm
by Wino you know
mermaidindisguise wrote:I for one will be so happy for Teri when she is finally at peace and isn't lying in a bed with tubes coming out of her. I still haven't read any responses to what is so horrible about heaven..... I would love to hear what all you pro-feeding tubers have to say about that. I'm sure God would like to hear why as well
NOTHING is horrible about Heaven, mermaid. All I've been saying all along (in addition to the fact I think starving a person is very cruel and inhumane-but that's just ME), is that if the parents are willing to take care of Terry and bear her medical expenses, why not let them? Give shithead a divorce, let him get his money and run off to Europe, and let the parents take care of Terry.
I'M still waiting to hear why so many of the anti-death penalty (for convicted felons) people have no problem letting Terry starve to death.
GOD, I hope no parent here (or anywhere) ever has to go through this.
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:15 pm
by AlbatrossFlyer
Wino you know wrote:Albatross Flyer wrote:it's Bloomberg
oh yeah, BLOOMBERG!
my bad.
Normally I'd agree with you-running as a republican in NY is surely political suicide, however, given the immense popularity of Rudy Guiliani as mayor of NYC, going as a republican in THAT particular election wasn't exactly the dumbest thing Bloomberg could have done either.
By the way-I'm STILL perplexed at the fact that Governor Pataki (whom I like very much) was able to get elected three times.
two of my favorite words
comrade cuomo
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:16 pm
by olemissbrad
Maybe Michael could donates Teri's body for this:
Austrians Used Corpses to Study Car Crashes
Tuesday, March 22, 2005
VIENNA, Austria — Researchers at an Austrian university used human corpses to study how to develop better crash-test dummies, and authorities are now investigating whether the scientists should be charged with violating the dignity of the dead, a prosecutor said Tuesday.
Researchers at the Technical University of Graz (search) used 21 bodies provided by The Medical University of Graz for tests performed between 1994 and 2003, said Alice Senarclens de Grancy, a spokeswoman for the Technical University.
Horst Sigl (search), a prosecutor in the southern city of Graz, said authorities are investigating whether researchers violated the dignity of the dead — a crime in Austria — by using the bodies in tests.
"The core of the problem is whether those used in the tests or their relatives gave permission," he said in a telephone interview.
During the tests, the bodies were placed in seats that moved with speeds up to 9 mph before being stopped in an effort to simulate a rear-end collision. Scientists observed how the bodies' vertebrae, upper bodies and backs moved.
Senarclens de Grancy (search) rejected any suggestion that the dignity of the dead could have been disturbed in the tests, saying they were carried out under strict ethical standards.
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:20 pm
by MojosMama
olemissbrad wrote:Maybe Michael could donates Teri's body for this:
What in the hell is wrong with you? Are you really that classless?
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:21 pm
by buffettbride
MojosMama wrote:olemissbrad wrote:Maybe Michael could donates Teri's body for this:
What in the hell is wrong with you? Are you really that classless?
Yes, Sandi, he is.
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:22 pm
by olemissbrad
Ummm...hell yes!
Comedy is a dish best served black!
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:22 pm
by a1aara
Wino you know wrote:A LIBERAL JUDGE with no political leanings???
COME ON! I may have been born at night, but I wasn't born LAST NIGHT!
OF COURSE his "collegues" are going to say his stuff doesn't stink!
Even JUDGES have friends.
Would it be ok if the judge was conservative with political leanings?
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:25 pm
by MojosMama
olemissbrad wrote:Ummm...hell yes!
Comedy is a dish best served black!
I'm all for dark comedy, but the word comedy would imply something's funny....what next? Child molestor humor? Really, dude....very uncool.
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:26 pm
by mermaidindisguise
wino - appreciate your comments but I am still curious as to how true is it that she will even know she is starving? Is there documentation on this? I am not an expert - and I understand the parents could take care of her - but once again - for how long? and if not starvation than how are they supposed to do this? If she would have collapsed in her home - alone... and no one found her - the heart failure would have killed her. I am sadly thinking that she would have been better off that way.
I don't think the husband would run off to Europe - I am actually hoping he takes no money. I am more leery of the parents - do you not think they are being a little bit selfish?
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:27 pm
by Wino you know
a1aara wrote:Wino you know wrote:A LIBERAL JUDGE with no political leanings???
COME ON! I may have been born at night, but I wasn't born LAST NIGHT!
OF COURSE his "collegues" are going to say his stuff doesn't stink!
Even JUDGES have friends.
Would it be ok if the judge was conservative with political leanings?
YES, it's okay if a conservative judge has political leanings.
IT'S OKAY FOR A LIBERAL JUDGE TO HAVE POLITICAL LEANINGS TOO.
What's NOT okay is for any of these clowns to say they have NO political leanings, because we ALL know it's a bunch of B.S.[/b]
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:37 pm
by Wino you know
mermaidindisguise wrote:wino - appreciate your comments but I am still curious as to how true is it that she will even know she is starving? Is there documentation on this? I am not an expert - and I understand the parents could take care of her - but once again - for how long? and if not starvation than how are they supposed to do this? If she would have collapsed in her home - alone... and no one found her - the heart failure would have killed her. I am sadly thinking that she would have been better off that way.
I don't think the husband would run off to Europe - I am actually hoping he takes no money. I am more leery of the parents - do you not think they are being a little bit selfish?
I don't know if I'd consider the parents SELFISH, mermaid-I just think they're being PARENTAL. Hopefully none of us here have ever had to experience the death of a child. To me, that would be the ULTIMATE pain. If they're scared to let go, can you really blame them? They're SCARED. Hell, they're PARENTS. Please don't begrudge a parent for loving their child so much. (I'm not saying YOU do, mermaid-that's simply a statement).
As for the husband-I don't know. Maybe because of my profession and things I've seen when it comes to family matters I naturally don't trust many husbands (sorry, guys), but he just has that G.D. SHIFTY look about him that drives me up a freaking wall. I know I shouldn't let MY emotions take over, but I've delivered sad news to many parents about their children, and it hurts ME to see their pain as well.
To address your first question (which was my intent)-I would thing that if the parents WERE taking care of her, they'd exercise common sense and NOT leave her home alone.
And, no
I would not want to live that way-as I said yesterday, just throw me in the river to the fish, or whatever's down there. But if the parents are willing to do what is necassary to take care of Terry, I think they should be given a chance.
Thanks.
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:41 pm
by Wino you know
Albatross Flyer wrote:two of my favorite words
comrade cuomo
Okay. On THAT note, I need to start getting ready for work.
Anybody who wants to continue this discussion with me later, I'll be back on line at 5:00 PM (central time).
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:44 pm
by MojosMama
Wino you know wrote:mermaidindisguise wrote:If she would have collapsed in her home - alone... and no one found her - the heart failure would have killed her. I am sadly thinking that she would have been better off that way.
To address your first question (which was my intent)-I would thing that if the parents WERE taking care of her, they'd exercise common sense and NOT leave her home alone.
I'm pretty sure she meant the original heart attack that put her in this position. Had it taken place at home, she'd probably have died right away....but since it happened at the fertility clinic.....she lived. I would have to also, sadly, agree....sudden death would have been much better for this poor woman.
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:49 pm
by Lightning Bolt
Wino you know wrote:Albatross Flyer wrote:it's Bloomberg
oh yeah, BLOOMBERG!
my bad.
Normally I'd agree with you-running as a republican in NY is surely political suicide, however, given the immense popularity of Rudy Guiliani as mayor of NYC, going as a republican in THAT particular election wasn't exactly the dumbest thing Bloomberg could have done either.
Alright, I'm back,
and it is heartening to see that most people (including this judge, for one) can relate to this sad matter with objectivity based on medical intelligence
and constitutional consistency. I applaud the resounding judgement in the face of unprecedented interference by the Federal government.
The appeals court is likely to concur.
Meanwhile, somewhat sadly, others on this thread continue to rant in hyperbole and innuendo with NO RESPECT to professional medical intelligence,
understanding of constitutional law or even current events concerning political leaders and their respective histories.
(Wino, Guiliani's approval rating had never been lower just prior to 9/11. His ongoing affair with a staff aide was considered an embarrassment.
The popularity he now enjoys is greatly the benefit of his brave , though brief, leadership in the wake of the tragedy).
Get with the real facts, people, the real facts...
Posted: March 22, 2005 1:49 pm
by Wino you know
MojosMama wrote: I'm pretty sure she meant the original heart attack that put her in this position. Had it taken place at home, she'd probably have died right away....but since it happened at the fertility clinic.....she lived. I would have to also, sadly, agree....sudden death would have been much better for this poor woman.
Gotcha, M.M.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.