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It was a great loss to the music world. Thank you, John.

25 years ago today Mings was 25 years younger. How bout that?

NOTM Dec 2005

mings wrote:25 years ago today Mings was 25 years younger. How bout that?

NOTM Dec 2005

Sorry pal... don't care

Was watching MNF too. Howard Cosell is NOT the kind of guy I wanted to hear that kind of news from.
What was remarkable to me about that night was how I instantly thought,
"Damn, this is my generation's John F. Kennedy-type loss".
I went to a girlfriend's house and she cried and we listened to his music til dawn.

Lightning Bolt wrote:

mings wrote:25 years ago today Mings was 25 years younger. How bout that?

NOTM Dec 2005

Sorry pal... don't care

Was watching MNF too. Howard Cosell is NOT the kind of guy I wanted to hear that kind of news from.
What was remarkable to me about that night was how I instantly thought,
"Damn, this is my generation's John F. Kennedy-type loss".
I went to a girlfriend's house and she cried and we listened to his music til dawn.

I seriously felt that way when Phil Hartman was shot by his goofy wife. Phil couldn't sing, but his comedy was great.

NOTM Dec 2005

mings wrote:

Lightning Bolt wrote:

mings wrote:25 years ago today Mings was 25 years younger. How bout that?

NOTM Dec 2005

Sorry pal... don't care

Was watching MNF too. Howard Cosell is NOT the kind of guy I wanted to hear that kind of news from.
What was remarkable to me about that night was how I instantly thought,
"Damn, this is my generation's John F. Kennedy-type loss".
I went to a girlfriend's house and she cried and we listened to his music til dawn.

I seriously felt that way when Phil Hartman was shot by his goofy wife. Phil couldn't sing, but his comedy was great.

NOTM Dec 2005

I was seriously bummed when Phil Hartman was killed, too.
Didn't stay up all night watching his SNL skit reruns, but I still miss his comic genius a helluva lot

But, John Lennon was an icon, a symbol of many of our youths.
..and as history has revealed, his later music and outspoken manners also served as a generation's conscience.
You just can't say that about many persons...

Lightning Bolt wrote:

mings wrote: I seriously felt that way when Phil Hartman was shot by his goofy wife. Phil couldn't sing, but his comedy was great.

NOTM Dec 2005

I was seriously bummed when Phil Hartman was killed, too.
Didn't stay up all night watching his SNL skit reruns, but I still miss his comic genius a helluva lot

But, John Lennon was an icon, a symbol of many of our youths.
..and as history has revealed, his later music and outspoken manners also served as a generation's conscience.
You just can't say that about many persons...

Agreed - but this generation never had that. The media doesn't allow it. This generation has moved from one of concerned with change towards a generation with ADD, and who is constantly bombarded on all sides. This generation is numb with the current political climate. We stick headphones in our ears and tune it all out. Unlike the 60s & 70s when change was embraced (or the resistance to change was even-more-so embraced), my generation, this current generation of youth, disregards it ignores it. Basically, if it doesn't fit into a 10-15 second highlight clip (thank you SportsCenter) it's lost in the current mess of events. Mess is the right word, too. Ask a teen or college kid how often they read the paper. Where do they get in-depth information? That change which John Lennon fought so hard for people to accept, is taken for granted. So is it any wonder that I see a comedian's death as a landmark event in my life? No. I consider my self a student of history. I'm a history minor, and my personal reading books on my bookshelf show that my desire to learn about what has already happened did not end when I left the classroom. I understand John Lennon's role as much as I possibly can. (I even saw "Lennon" on Broadway this summer, even though it got horrible reviews.) I respect him for all that he did, and appreciate his music, but I can tell you that other than hard-core Beatles fans, no one of my generation can really understand how you guys feel about this. Sept 11th maybe will have a similar affect on people, but its depth, touch, and reach is far different and is therefore incomprable.

Sail on John.

mings wrote:

Lightning Bolt wrote:

mings wrote: I seriously felt that way when Phil Hartman was shot by his goofy wife. Phil couldn't sing, but his comedy was great.

NOTM Dec 2005

I was seriously bummed when Phil Hartman was killed, too.
Didn't stay up all night watching his SNL skit reruns, but I still miss his comic genius a helluva lot

But, John Lennon was an icon, a symbol of many of our youths.
..and as history has revealed, his later music and outspoken manners also served as a generation's conscience.
You just can't say that about many persons...

Agreed - but this generation never had that. The media doesn't allow it. This generation has moved from one of concerned with change towards a generation with ADD, and who is constantly bombarded on all sides. This generation is numb with the current political climate. We stick headphones in our ears and tune it all out. Unlike the 60s & 70s when change was embraced (or the resistance to change was even-more-so embraced), my generation, this current generation of youth, disregards it ignores it. Basically, if it doesn't fit into a 10-15 second highlight clip (thank you SportsCenter) it's lost in the current mess of events. Mess is the right word, too. Ask a teen or college kid how often they read the paper. Where do they get in-depth information? That change which John Lennon fought so hard for people to accept, is taken for granted. So is it any wonder that I see a comedian's death as a landmark event in my life? No. I consider my self a student of history. I'm a history minor, and my personal reading books on my bookshelf show that my desire to learn about what has already happened did not end when I left the classroom. I understand John Lennon's role as much as I possibly can. (I even saw "Lennon" on Broadway this summer, even though it got horrible reviews.) I respect him for all that he did, and appreciate his music, but I can tell you that other than hard-core Beatles fans, no one of my generation can really understand how you guys feel about this. Sept 11th maybe will have a similar affect on people, but its depth, touch, and reach is far different and is therefore incomprable.

Sail on John.

well said, Sir Mings, well said...

Oh... and kudos for checking out "Lennon" on Broadway. I don't think I would've let myself see it. As a hard-core Beatles fan, I'm conditioned to hate Yoko Ono

Kinda a freaky moment yesterday.
I was watching Sportscenter and they did a piece on Lennono's death and how Cossell had to announce it on MNF. Just as they were playing it I turned my page-a-day sports calander to yesterday's date and the little "article" was about Cossell's MNF announcement. Amazingly, I was listening to Christmas Island and, albiet Jimmy's version, Happy Christmas (War is Over) came on. It was just one of those surreal moments. I was also too young for Lennon and to really understand what he meant to his generation, but man was his music good.

Sail on John.

mings wrote:
Agreed - but this generation never had that. The media doesn't allow it. This generation has moved from one of concerned with change towards a generation with ADD, and who is constantly bombarded on all sides. This generation is numb with the current political climate. We stick headphones in our ears and tune it all out. Unlike the 60s & 70s when change was embraced (or the resistance to change was even-more-so embraced), my generation, this current generation of youth, disregards it ignores it. Basically, if it doesn't fit into a 10-15 second highlight clip (thank you SportsCenter) it's lost in the current mess of events. Mess is the right word, too. Ask a teen or college kid how often they read the paper. Where do they get in-depth information? That change which John Lennon fought so hard for people to accept, is taken for granted. So is it any wonder that I see a comedian's death as a landmark event in my life? No. I consider my self a student of history. I'm a history minor, and my personal reading books on my bookshelf show that my desire to learn about what has already happened did not end when I left the classroom. I understand John Lennon's role as much as I possibly can. (I even saw "Lennon" on Broadway this summer, even though it got horrible reviews.) I respect him for all that he did, and appreciate his music, but I can tell you that other than hard-core Beatles fans, no one of my generation can really understand how you guys feel about this. Sept 11th maybe will have a similar affect on people, but its depth, touch, and reach is far different and is therefore incomprable.

Sail on John.

mings..you are sooo very very correct. I have a daughter barely 26 years old..

and hence, the term...generation gap!

Moonie wrote:

mings wrote:
Agreed - but this generation never had that. The media doesn't allow it. This generation has moved from one of concerned with change towards a generation with ADD, and who is constantly bombarded on all sides. This generation is numb with the current political climate. We stick headphones in our ears and tune it all out. Unlike the 60s & 70s when change was embraced (or the resistance to change was even-more-so embraced), my generation, this current generation of youth, disregards it ignores it. Basically, if it doesn't fit into a 10-15 second highlight clip (thank you SportsCenter) it's lost in the current mess of events. Mess is the right word, too. Ask a teen or college kid how often they read the paper. Where do they get in-depth information? That change which John Lennon fought so hard for people to accept, is taken for granted. So is it any wonder that I see a comedian's death as a landmark event in my life? No. I consider my self a student of history. I'm a history minor, and my personal reading books on my bookshelf show that my desire to learn about what has already happened did not end when I left the classroom. I understand John Lennon's role as much as I possibly can. (I even saw "Lennon" on Broadway this summer, even though it got horrible reviews.) I respect him for all that he did, and appreciate his music, but I can tell you that other than hard-core Beatles fans, no one of my generation can really understand how you guys feel about this. Sept 11th maybe will have a similar affect on people, but its depth, touch, and reach is far different and is therefore incomprable.

Sail on John.

mings..you are sooo very very correct. I have a daughter barely 26 years old..

and hence, the term...generation gap!

Thanks. It's funny. I'm goofy a lot, so I didn't even know I felt that way. But seriously, I was just talking about this with my father and we failed to come up with anyone that this current generation would react similarly in the event of their untimely death. The only one we came up with was Princess Di, and in fact, those who so greatly mourned her death were a) not of my generation and b) more likely to be the very same people who mourned John's passing 25 years ago.

The world is simply a different place now. I can't say that, on a whole, it's changed for the better.

By the way, I'm 27. So..... is your daughter single??? Just kidding.

I dunno if it is marketing or media or what. It may be that since the icons of the 60s and 70s were there that so many want to become one and none really succeed. It might be there was nothing that really pulled the youth/people together and united them or tore them apart as the media and Peace movement did with the Vietnam war. It may be something else entirely.

A year or two ago, Yoko was doing a live nude performance to raise money for some charity or cause. I thought she is what ....70 or so??? Geeze how many people would pay money for her to keep her clothes on and how much more money they could raise. Even when Yoko was young she probably could have raised more money by keeping her clothes on and never attempted to what some people called sing.

I can and do understand many people were very deeply affected by the senseless act of his murder.
I was not affected that much by Lennon's murder...I liked his music but never cared for his politics very much, nor was I into or interested in that type of culture. Granted I did feel bad about his murder, but I was not deeply affected by it. Right after his murder, a crude joke was going around:Q: "What will it take to get "The Beatles" back together? A:3 more bulllets.

Not that this has anything to do with Lennon, but Sir Paul is going to play a concert in China .....not for Human Rights......but for Animal Rights.....

Lightning Bolt wrote: well said, Sir Mings, well said...
Oh... and kudos for checking out "Lennon" on Broadway. I don't think I would've let myself see it. As a hard-core Beatles fan, I'm conditioned to hate Yoko Ono

You know, I'm not a big fan on Yoko either, however, I was intrigued about how they would portray his life, all stages of it. With the exception of a few small parts that bothered me (one of the two leads had an Irish accent no English & some of the girls that sang tried to change the sound of the song too much - maybe that was the direction, who knows) I thought that it was well done. Will it win a Tony? Hell no, but at least I don't want those 2 hours of my life back.

NOTM Dec 2005

Last night on the NBC national news program, Brian Williams showed the footage of NBC making the announcement, interrupting Ed and Johnny chatting on the Tonight Show, breaking in with the news of Lennon's death, and returning to the Tonight Show. Clearly a generational thing that Brian Williams did that.

I was always a bigger Paul McCartney fan back then, but when Lennon was killed, it struck me how much his life was always a marker of what was going on for our generation.

Yesterday, the local oldies station played a lot of Lennon, and it made me very sad all over again.

Sam wrote:I dunno if it is marketing or media or what. It may be that since the icons of the 60s and 70s were there that so many want to become one and none really succeed. It might be there was nothing that really pulled the youth/people together and united them or tore them apart as the media and Peace movement did with the Vietnam war. It may be something else entirely.

Not that this has anything to do with Lennon, but Sir Paul is going to play a concert in China .....not for Human Rights......but for Animal Rights.....

Sam, you say two things that I thought very interesting. One is that the media and entertainment industries are force feeding celebrity status to those who have no business having it (ie: Paris Hilton, Nicole Ritchie), and those that have it have such a limited audience that there is no person who has the depth and reach of a celebrity from years past who has earned the status and respect of the public. In short, there is no time to earn respect, and even little ways to earn it with the fluidity of modern celbrity status.

The second thing is that the causes of the 60's and 70's were basic. All may not have agreed with the anti-war sentiment, or the women's lib or civil rights movements, but they were basic parts of our lives that affected EVERYBODY. What do people in North Dakota care about manatees? How bout people in West Virginia caring about children in the third world who've lost limb because of land mines? There are too many causes. It seems that every different actor, musician, model (and anyone else who has "celebrity status") has a different cause. Why? Everything is too watered down, and hence the bonds that created a unified public, a generation with the same thoughts and goals, have been washed away with the waters of excess.

Sometimes there is such a thing as too much.

Ming is absolutely right. Our generation (I'll be 27 in 24 hours) has not produced one influential person to date. All we need to do is look at who is popular right now. Jessica Simpson, Brittney Spears and 50 Cent are what is cool. What is it that they have to say? Oops, I did it again? Give me a break! Our problem is that we have been handed everything We have not had to work for it like our parents and grandparents did. Our parents had to work for what they have because their parents were fresh out of the Depression. The Great Depression made our grandparents become "tough" parents by teaching our parents that if they wanted something, they had to work for it. I think that is a trait that has not been handed down for the most part. Everything is at our fingertips or we can always rely on our mommy and daddy to bail us out.

The people of my generation that are interested in politics and helping their fellow man are few and far between. I don't know where it went wrong. Was it the Clinton impeachment disaster or is it a carry over from Watergate? Is it something as simple as our parents becoming disenfranchised with our government from Nixon and it has just spilled over? I do not know what we are going to do. How do we get this generation excited? It seems that if a speaker does not have a kick ass bass hook behind them, no one in my generation will listen to it. Who is going to be my generation's John Lennon? Are we just going to sit back and hope one emerges or are we just going to say "The hell with it! This is my world too and we better get our asses in gear before it is too late" I just want something to happen soon!

I am not what you call a big Beatles fan (In fact, I do not like their music) but I sure can appreciate what he accomplished.

mings wrote:

Sam wrote:I dunno if it is marketing or media or what. It may be that since the icons of the 60s and 70s were there that so many want to become one and none really succeed. It might be there was nothing that really pulled the youth/people together and united them or tore them apart as the media and Peace movement did with the Vietnam war. It may be something else entirely.

Not that this has anything to do with Lennon, but Sir Paul is going to play a concert in China .....not for Human Rights......but for Animal Rights.....

Sam, you say two things that I thought very interesting. One is that the media and entertainment industries are force feeding celebrity status to those who have no business having it (ie: Paris Hilton, Nicole Ritchie), and those that have it have such a limited audience that there is no person who has the depth and reach of a celebrity from years past who has earned the status and respect of the public. In short, there is no time to earn respect, and even little ways to earn it with the fluidity of modern celbrity status.

The second thing is that the causes of the 60's and 70's were basic. All may not have agreed with the anti-war sentiment, or the women's lib or civil rights movements, but they were basic parts of our lives that affected EVERYBODY. What do people in North Dakota care about manatees? How bout people in West Virginia caring about children in the third world who've lost limb because of land mines? There are too many causes. It seems that every different actor, musician, model (and anyone else who has "celebrity status") has a different cause. Why? Everything is too watered down, and hence the bonds that created a unified public, a generation with the same thoughts and goals, have been washed away with the waters of excess.

Sometimes there is such a thing as too much.

BRO!!! You and me have gotta sit and do some serious drinking sometime!!!

It is like the war on terrorism.... many ( NOT ALL) people want it to be another Vietnam so they can either relive their "Glory Days" or else are too young to have been a part of them and know nothing of the situation THEN, and are wannabees of such of the time, and want to be a part of something as meaningful as that particular movement was. Granted not everyone.
Much was happening in the 60s from Civil Rights to THE WAR to the music.
I don't see any changes of that magnitude or comparable in this modern age.
When The Beatles and the Rolling Stones and others came along it was called "The British Invasion". Can you foresee anything like that happening in the music world today? That literally takes the WHOLE WORLD (not just the music world) and dominates it then and broke all the rules and made a new rule book that is more or less still in effect.
25 years after Lennon's murder people still feel the effects.

I don't know if the things I mentioned are right or wrong but they are definitely a part of it. I don't know if it is modern day celebs acting like a multi headed hydra, each one headed here or there in their own direction or cause or whatever...but none are making any progress in any particular direction or thing,nor are they really creating anything new in the music world.

A guy that I used to know and has since passed, told me long ago the one modern day invention that did the most to change the world and brought about a world wide revolution was/is ........the electric guitar....

captainjoe wrote: The people of my generation that are interested in politics and helping their fellow man are few and far between. I don't know where it went wrong. Was it the Clinton impeachment disaster or is it a carry over from Watergate? Is it something as simple as our parents becoming disenfranchised with our government from Nixon and it has just spilled over? I do not know what we are going to do. How do we get this generation excited? It seems that if a speaker does not have a kick ass bass hook behind them, no one in my generation will listen to it. Who is going to be my generation's John Lennon? Are we just going to sit back and hope one emerges or are we just going to say "The hell with it! This is my world too and we better get our asses in gear before it is too late" I just want something to happen soon!

You know what I fear? I fear that we may be beyond saving, beyond uniting as anything that has been, as generations before us. That doesn't mean we're all doomed, the world is going to implode, and... well it was nice knowing ya. Look at every generation from the past, and in varying degrees change and progress has caused all of them to grow beyond their predecessors. I thought that September 11th was the thing that would unite our generation, and reverse the trend. However, after a short glimpse of unity, it went back downhill again. I can't (nor do I want to) imagine something worse September 11th, and hence I can't imagine something that would unify this generation. I don't expect an end to protests for the rights of Rats outside CBS Studios, celebrity flavors of the week, and everything else that we've turned numb to. I'd love to think that this generation has the opportunity to have a unified goal, perspective, and point of view - but truthfully I don't see it happening.

mings wrote:

captainjoe wrote: The people of my generation that are interested in politics and helping their fellow man are few and far between. I don't know where it went wrong. Was it the Clinton impeachment disaster or is it a carry over from Watergate? Is it something as simple as our parents becoming disenfranchised with our government from Nixon and it has just spilled over? I do not know what we are going to do. How do we get this generation excited? It seems that if a speaker does not have a kick ass bass hook behind them, no one in my generation will listen to it. Who is going to be my generation's John Lennon? Are we just going to sit back and hope one emerges or are we just going to say "The hell with it! This is my world too and we better get our asses in gear before it is too late" I just want something to happen soon!

You know what I fear? I fear that we may be beyond saving, beyond uniting as anything that has been, as generations before us. That doesn't mean we're all doomed, the world is going to implode, and... well it was nice knowing ya. Look at every generation from the past, and in varying degrees change and progress has caused all of them to grow beyond their predecessors. I thought that September 11th was the thing that would unite our generation, and reverse the trend. However, after a short glimpse of unity, it went back downhill again. I can't (nor do I want to) imagine something worse September 11th, and hence I can't imagine something that would unify this generation. I don't expect an end to protests for the rights of Rats outside CBS Studios, celebrity flavors of the week, and everything else that we've turned numb to. I'd love to think that this generation has the opportunity to have a unified goal, perspective, and point of view - but truthfully I don't see it happening.

I just went back to my original post and read it again. I am no different than the people that I am complaining about. I may read more and discuss the topics at hand more than other kids but I am not doing anything that really matters. I am not running for office or anything like that. I do recycle and help others when I can. I treat others the way I want to be treated and I try to point out when people are being discriminated against. I do look out for our brothers and sisters in this world. But sometimes I feel like I am just watching the wheels go around! Honestly, I have no clue what to do. I could never run for office. I do not have the self esteem it takes to be a politician. I would not like it for someone to try to break me on the six o'clock news every night. I do, however, take the time to find out about the world around me. Maybe if we all just do that from time to time, we might be in better shape.

Eh, don't lose heart, or give up so easily..

Yeah the 60's/70's were fun..lotsa good drugs, etc...but..there was a major down side to it...

we'd seen a President assassinated almost before our very eyes, threat of nuclear war almost every day..I was very young at the time,old enough to remember it though...

not to mention the conflict in Southeast Asia..

Lennon's politics may be debatable, he was very non-violent and was raising his son when his life was taken..he took great pleasure in being a Father. After all he'd been a Beatle, and they revolutionized music as much as Elvis had done..

And your generation will be the first one that will not be as fortunate as the last one (so they say) in that you'll probably not have the income nor the opportunities the previous generation had (baby boomers, that is)...good jobs without benefit of college education, to name one..

Sooo, wonder where we went wrong..??

captainjoe wrote:I just went back to my original post and read it again. I am no different than the people that I am complaining about. I may read more and discuss the topics at hand more than other kids but I am not doing anything that really matters. I am not running for office or anything like that. I do recycle and help others when I can. I treat others the way I want to be treated and I try to point out when people are being discriminated against. I do look out for our brothers and sisters in this world. But sometimes I feel like I am just watching the wheels go around! Honestly, I have no clue what to do. I could never run for office. I do not have the self esteem it takes to be a politician. I would not like it for someone to try to break me on the six o'clock news every night. I do, however, take the time to find out about the world around me. Maybe if we all just do that from time to time, we might be in better shape.

I think it's funny that you think politicians have a strong sense of self esteem. We have completely different points-of-view on this, and we can leave it at that.

Truthfully, I do what I know how to do. Will it change the world? No, but maybe a few hundred people will be different, and maybe one of them will be in a position to change the world. As a coach, I teach my rowers more that how to effectively move a boat. Does everybody learn? No, but my best work is rarely on the river. That's the only thing I know how to do and that's the best thing I do do. I don't think there's a "magic bullet" theory of creating unity. There's too much dissention.