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my generation (im 21) i would say have had a few that i think would compair to lennon, Kurt Cobain, Tupac, and perhaps even Chris Farley.

mings wrote:

captainjoe wrote:I just went back to my original post and read it again. I am no different than the people that I am complaining about. I may read more and discuss the topics at hand more than other kids but I am not doing anything that really matters. I am not running for office or anything like that. I do recycle and help others when I can. I treat others the way I want to be treated and I try to point out when people are being discriminated against. I do look out for our brothers and sisters in this world. But sometimes I feel like I am just watching the wheels go around! Honestly, I have no clue what to do. I could never run for office. I do not have the self esteem it takes to be a politician. I would not like it for someone to try to break me on the six o'clock news every night. I do, however, take the time to find out about the world around me. Maybe if we all just do that from time to time, we might be in better shape.

I think it's funny that you think politicians have a strong sense of self esteem. We have completely different points-of-view on this, and we can leave it at that.

Truthfully, I do what I know how to do. Will it change the world? No, but maybe a few hundred people will be different, and maybe one of them will be in a position to change the world. As a coach, I teach my rowers more that how to effectively move a boat. Does everybody learn? No, but my best work is rarely on the river. That's the only thing I know how to do and that's the best thing I do do. I don't think there's a "magic bullet" theory of creating unity. There's too much dissention.

The thing is do what you can,when you can, as best you can, and nothing more can be asked of you. Yes you can change the world...one person at a time. It won't happen overnight and you cannot help people that will not help themselves.

I don't really believe John Lennon or Jimi Hendrix or others really ever thought they would change the world. They just did what they did and they did it well and were DAMN GREAT at it.

Let's take a look at Jimmy Buffett...Look at his life and career. He never expected anything like he has now...How many bands have come and went, in all the years and time he has been playing and singing??? How many bands get the same amount of radio air time he does and are still successfull and recording...let alone releasing over 40 albums and selling out concert minutes after the tickets go on sale?

I suppose it is how one looks at things and life. You question yorself and your generation asking the question what legacy are we going to leave behind...don't worry about asking it.... be more concerned about living it.

I can honestly say that every generation has had it positive and negatives...........some more obcure....some out in the open.

Live your life as best you can with no regrets or as few as possible regrets. The rest will take care of itself...eventually your generation is going to become world leaders. They will have their chance to make things better or screw them up just as every other generation has had.

And Captain....I would love to have a one on conversation with you and Mings, and we could do some serious drinking and listening to music....

Some last words for you
The problems of life
There are problems YOU CAN solve or correct. ( or you can substitute the word questions you can answer)
There are problems YOU CANNOT solve or correct. ( again you can substitute questions for problems)
There are those problems that will solve themselves. ( again you can substitute questions answering themselves)
THE main problem/issue is learning to tell those 3 apart and concentrating on the ones you can solve and answer.

I don't want this to sound like preaching or trying to convert you or anyone.... but look at how Christ lived his life. As a simple carpenter that
lived over 2000 years later people are still arguing about him. He treated people well and helped them as he could. Do you think when he was growing up he intended to become the Messiah? Did he really act like a Messiah? I dunno how is a Messiah suppose to act. He went where he was needed. He did not teach his lessons in any fancy expensive building outfitted with the latest in high tech gizmos. He lived his life as best he could doing what he could for people.

I think far too many people want to be THEIR IDEA of him and live the so called "Good Life" or for everyone to have THEIR IDEA of him and live the so called Good life, rather than trying to live like him and live the actual "Good Life" as best they can....

thegoatgod wrote:my generation (im 21) i would say have had a few that i think would compair to lennon, Kurt Cobain, Tupac, and perhaps even Chris Farley.

Really? I'm 27 and I respectfully disagree with all of your choices. Chris Farley was funny. But did any of those three people unite people through pushing for change? Tupac? No. He was a west coast rapper, and in fact, died at the hands of east coast rappers, when both rapped about the problems that plagued their communities, and the false perceptions held by them. Infighting, a clear LACK of unity, has caused for them (Tupac, Biggie, and the rest of their groups) to kill each other. How ludacris is that? As for Kurt Cobain, I don't think that someone who used heroin to retreat from the world and who sang songs of depression and disillusionment can be seen as a role model. The fact that he is, is disturbing to me.

John Lennon united people for a few reasons. The first is that there were fewer, but more simple and far-reaching polarizing issues when he was alive. Another reason is that either through the Beatles or through his own music, he was able to reach millions of people at a time when there were little distractions or alternatives. The "establishment" that Lennon clashed with (ie: the FBI, and generally older generations) were seen as dodgy unaware and aloof. It was an era, a culture of change when John Lennon was around, so in a time like that its easy for someone of the right caliber to step up and assume the role of spokesperson/leader.

As I said earlier, I don't think anyone like John Lennon will ever happen again as long as things continue as they are. The media, and society in general won't allow it - sad as that may be. So while some people may have been upset or bummed when Kurt, Tupac, or Chris Farley all died, their lives nor their deaths had a mere percentage of the impact that John Lennon's had.

thegoatgod wrote:my generation (im 21) i would say have had a few that i think would compair to lennon, Kurt Cobain, Tupac, and perhaps even Chris Farley.

Just what are you smoking??? Have you been grazing in the loco weed again???

I am pretty certain, if that is the best your generation has to offer, then all hope is lost....how did they affect music world and just what did they leave behind??
(My apologies I could not resist that one!!!)

Tell me how many people can name one song by Kurt Cobain or Tupac?
How about 5 years from now...let alone 35.....
I will lay odds the numbers are not even close in comparison as to how many can name at least one Lennon song.....

Tell me do you really think 35 years from now anyone will still be talking about either of them and what they did to the music industry or John Lennon/the Beatles 70 years or so after The British Invasion?
True some people were impacted by their music and tragic deaths, but no where of the world wide magnitude of Lennon or others.

Chris Farley? I honestly could not name one movie that he ever did and I have seen several, and he only died how long ago?

As the Country and Western song goes... "Who is Going to Fill Their Shoes?" Only time and the future will tell....if anyone does at all...

mings wrote:

thegoatgod wrote:my generation (im 21) i would say have had a few that i think would compair to lennon, Kurt Cobain, Tupac, and perhaps even Chris Farley.

Really? I'm 27 and I respectfully disagree with all of your choices. Chris Farley was funny. But did any of those three people unite people through pushing for change? Tupac? No. He was a west coast rapper, and in fact, died at the hands of east coast rappers, when both rapped about the problems that plagued their communities, and the false perceptions held by them. Infighting, a clear LACK of unity, has caused for them (Tupac, Biggie, and the rest of their groups) to kill each other. How ludacris is that? As for Kurt Cobain, I don't think that someone who used heroin to retreat from the world and who sang songs of depression and disillusionment can be seen as a role model. The fact that he is, is disturbing to me.

John Lennon united people for a few reasons. The first is that there were fewer, but more simple and far-reaching polarizing issues when he was alive. Another reason is that either through the Beatles or through his own music, he was able to reach millions of people at a time when there were little distractions or alternatives. The "establishment" that Lennon clashed with (ie: the FBI, and generally older generations) were seen as dodgy unaware and aloof. It was an era, a culture of change when John Lennon was around, so in a time like that its easy for someone of the right caliber to step up and assume the role of spokesperson/leader.

As I said earlier, I don't think anyone like John Lennon will ever happen again as long as things continue as they are. The media, and society in general won't allow it - sad as that may be. So while some people may have been upset or bummed when Kurt, Tupac, or Chris Farley all died, their lives nor their deaths had a mere percentage of the impact that John Lennon's had.

I agree with you on the fact that none were great role models, and I didnt intend for that to be how that was read. I merely think in my experience through out highschool, and college, that the deaths of those i mentioned are mourned by people my age. My bad for not fully explaining my reasoning behind posting those names.

thegoatgod wrote:

mings wrote:

thegoatgod wrote:my generation (im 21) i would say have had a few that i think would compair to lennon, Kurt Cobain, Tupac, and perhaps even Chris Farley.

Really? I'm 27 and I respectfully disagree with all of your choices. Chris Farley was funny. But did any of those three people unite people through pushing for change? Tupac? No. He was a west coast rapper, and in fact, died at the hands of east coast rappers, when both rapped about the problems that plagued their communities, and the false perceptions held by them. Infighting, a clear LACK of unity, has caused for them (Tupac, Biggie, and the rest of their groups) to kill each other. How ludacris is that? As for Kurt Cobain, I don't think that someone who used heroin to retreat from the world and who sang songs of depression and disillusionment can be seen as a role model. The fact that he is, is disturbing to me.

John Lennon united people for a few reasons. The first is that there were fewer, but more simple and far-reaching polarizing issues when he was alive. Another reason is that either through the Beatles or through his own music, he was able to reach millions of people at a time when there were little distractions or alternatives. The "establishment" that Lennon clashed with (ie: the FBI, and generally older generations) were seen as dodgy unaware and aloof. It was an era, a culture of change when John Lennon was around, so in a time like that its easy for someone of the right caliber to step up and assume the role of spokesperson/leader.

As I said earlier, I don't think anyone like John Lennon will ever happen again as long as things continue as they are. The media, and society in general won't allow it - sad as that may be. So while some people may have been upset or bummed when Kurt, Tupac, or Chris Farley all died, their lives nor their deaths had a mere percentage of the impact that John Lennon's had.

I agree with you on the fact that none were great role models, and I didnt intend for that to be how that was read. I merely think in my experience through out highschool, and college, that the deaths of those i mentioned are mourned by people my age. My bad for not fully explaining my reasoning behind posting those names.

GG, I'll agree with you on the fact that from our perpective, a lot of our peers were upset when they died, but that's where the similarities end.

mings wrote:As for Kurt Cobain, I don't think that someone who used heroin to retreat from the world and who sang songs of depression and disillusionment can be seen as a role model. The fact that he is, is disturbing to me.

John Lennon also fought heroin addiction and wrote "songs of depression and disillusionment". As for either of them being called role models, I've never heard them referred in this way. Cobain was called "a spokesman for a generation", a label that was also put on Bob Dylan. It was also one neither of them acknowledged because it was something thought up by the press. Did either of them have an impact on society? Most definitely but in their own different ways.

Jahfin wrote:

mings wrote:As for Kurt Cobain, I don't think that someone who used heroin to retreat from the world and who sang songs of depression and disillusionment can be seen as a role model. The fact that he is, is disturbing to me.

John Lennon also fought heroin addiction and wrote "songs of depression and disillusionment". As for either of them being called role models, I've never heard them referred in this way. Cobain was called "a spokesman for a generation", a label that was also put on Bob Dylan. It was also one neither of them acknowledged because it was something thought up by the press. Did either of them have an impact on society? Most definitely but in their own different ways.

OK!!!!...but how many members of SOCIETY AROUND THE WORLD, are you talking about? Perhaps just a few in the U.S.? Europe? Elsewhere?????
I will lay odds that no current conventional band has ever succeeded them....I am willing to listenthough..........!!!!

Sam wrote:

Jahfin wrote:

mings wrote:As for Kurt Cobain, I don't think that someone who used heroin to retreat from the world and who sang songs of depression and disillusionment can be seen as a role model. The fact that he is, is disturbing to me.

John Lennon also fought heroin addiction and wrote "songs of depression and disillusionment". As for either of them being called role models, I've never heard them referred in this way. Cobain was called "a spokesman for a generation", a label that was also put on Bob Dylan. It was also one neither of them acknowledged because it was something thought up by the press. Did either of them have an impact on society? Most definitely but in their own different ways.

OK!!!!...but how many members of SOCIETY AROUND THE WORLD, are you talking about? Perhaps just a few in the U.S.? Europe? Elsewhere?????
I will lay odds that no current conventional band has ever succeeded them....I am willing to listenthough..........!!!!

I have no idea how many people around the world have heard of Cobain or Lennon but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. I also wasn't trying to imply anyone else has had a larger impact.

I hate to be the one to p*** in the punchbowl, but John Lennon was a musician. Nothing more, nothing less. Did his music have an impact? Sure it did. Is the world a better place today because of his music, or anything else he did? I don't think so. He didn't find a cure for cancer, he didn't invent anything that made peoples' lives better. He strung notes and words together in a way that sounded good to a lot of people. It was terrible that he was killed, but he was just a musician. He's dead, move on.

Flame away.

LIPH wrote:I hate to be the one to p*** in the punchbowl, but John Lennon was a musician. Nothing more, nothing less. Did his music have an impact? Sure it did. Is the world a better place today because of his music, or anything else he did? I don't think so. He didn't find a cure for cancer, he didn't invent anything that made peoples' lives better. He strung notes and words together in a way that sounded good to a lot of people. It was terrible that he was killed, but he was just a musician. He's dead, move on.

Flame away.

Larry, you can't ignore the fact that Lennon's music gave voice/soundtrack to more important and wide-spread dilemmas that society was dealing with at the time. The acceptance of Lennon's music during this time gave him some ligitmacy (whether you like it or not) in terms of how his life was then portrayed to affect the issues of the time. THat's the issue at hand. NO ONE now, in a similar position will ever be able to acheive the same status. Bono can try, but he's a far distant second.


NOTM Dec 2005

Jahfin wrote:

Sam wrote:

Jahfin wrote:

mings wrote:As for Kurt Cobain, I don't think that someone who used heroin to retreat from the world and who sang songs of depression and disillusionment can be seen as a role model. The fact that he is, is disturbing to me.

John Lennon also fought heroin addiction and wrote "songs of depression and disillusionment". As for either of them being called role models, I've never heard them referred in this way. Cobain was called "a spokesman for a generation", a label that was also put on Bob Dylan. It was also one neither of them acknowledged because it was something thought up by the press. Did either of them have an impact on society? Most definitely but in their own different ways.

OK!!!!...but how many members of SOCIETY AROUND THE WORLD, are you talking about? Perhaps just a few in the U.S.? Europe? Elsewhere?????
I will lay odds that no current conventional band has ever succeeded them....I am willing to listenthough..........!!!!

I have no idea how many people around the world have heard of Cobain or Lennon but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. I also wasn't trying to imply anyone else has had a larger impact.

My apologies... my intent was more of hmmm.... who created and built a lasting and memorable trail rather than leaving tracks at the low water mark on the beach. The trail will be long lasting and remembered while the tracks of those who walk in the tidelines will be gone and quickly forgotten, if you will allow the allegory......Granted the paths that people walk, all make an impression but it is how long that impression last and how it impacts. Sometimes the most minor and tiniest of things that occur, have far reaching and world changing results. For example: simple bread mold leading to the development of modern antibiotics.
Certainly Kurt Cobain had talent and created works of art/music but I don't think history is going to remember them as being a part of something on the global scale the way John Lennon is.
A movie you may or may not have seen and may or may not have liked if you did..Eddie and The Cruisers comes to mind. I feel the story it told...somehow applies..maybe it dosen't. I won't say because if you haven't seen it, might influence you or spoil the movie for you.
Again my apologies.

LIPH wrote:I hate to be the one to p*** in the punchbowl, but John Lennon was a musician. Nothing more, nothing less. Did his music have an impact? Sure it did. Is the world a better place today because of his music, or anything else he did? I don't think so. He didn't find a cure for cancer, he didn't invent anything that made peoples' lives better. He strung notes and words together in a way that sounded good to a lot of people. It was terrible that he was killed, but he was just a musician. He's dead, move on.

Flame away.

Larry,
I happen to agree with you.BUT... I think the point being that The Beatles or Lennon can roughly pinpoint a time for pretty much anyone around the world. Music is one thing (besides math) that is universal and transcends all borders.

Mozart, Vivaldi, Brahms, or others did not really do anything more than string a few notes together. Yet their music still has impact today... centuries later. I do think that while they ( or even Jimmy Buffett for that matter) may not have invented anything...they did create something that makes peoples lives better. It makes people ......well allows people to feel
things, to experience things, it inspires some, it relaxes some, it does many things and impacts in many ways. Thus by doing so it does create change.....Jimmy Buffett has more or less promoted a certain lifestyle and he has created his own, not so little niche. Has he really done anything to change the world??

Will there be another musician that comes along and can write and perform the way Mozart or Lennon or Jimm Buffett has done?? Certainly!!! It is only a matter of timing and when it happens. Certainly it is not up to Sony BMG or others.....After all, look at all the garbage they offer on an album/cd....JB "thumbed his nose" at Nashville after the way they treated him...if he can do it, anyone else with enough talent and backing can do it too!!

My point is (or was), he's been dead for 25 years. I don't think there's any need to continue to "celebrate" (for want of a better word) his death every year. He's gone, he's not coming back. Get over it.

LIPH wrote:My point is (or was), he's been dead for 25 years. I don't think there's any need to continue to "celebrate" (for want of a better word) his death every year. He's gone, he's not coming back. Get over it.

Well, once Doc Brown fixes my flux capacitor, it just may happen. Then who'll look silly.

NOTM Dec 2005

I don't think anyone's celebrating anything. Remembering would be a more appropriate word. As for what Lennon did to help change people's outlook, that went far deeper than the music. He wasn't on the FBI's list for nothing.

LIPH wrote:I hate to be the one to p*** in the punchbowl, but John Lennon was a musician. Nothing more, nothing less. Did his music have an impact? Sure it did. Is the world a better place today because of his music, or anything else he did? I don't think so. He didn't find a cure for cancer, he didn't invent anything that made peoples' lives better. He strung notes and words together in a way that sounded good to a lot of people. It was terrible that he was killed, but he was just a musician. He's dead, move on.

Let's see, my daughter is 24. Wonder what I was doing 25 years ago ....

RhumChum wrote:Let's see, my daughter is 24. Wonder what I was doing 25 years ago ....

crap - now I feel old

RhumChum wrote:Let's see, my daughter is 24. Wonder what I was doing 25 years ago ....

Well around that time ( give or take a few months) perhapsyou were going OOOOOO AHHHHHH STOP!!! DON'T STOP!!! MORE!!! MORE MORE MORE!!! and a lot of moaning or perhaps saying WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU YOUR DONE......????
And mayhaps have been a tad bit hot and glistening and wee bit out of breath???
MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAA
GEEZE what do you think you were doing?