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rsgeist wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

LIPH wrote:As long as cigarettes can be legally sold, smokers should be able to smoke wherever they want. If it's so bad for you, outlaw tobacco products altogether. Oh wait, there goes millions of dollars in tax money and billions of dollars the tobacco companies agreed to pay to the states when they signed the Master Settlement Agreement in 1998. Never mind.

I respectfully disagree with the gentleman from New York.

Alcohol is sold legally, but you can't drink wherever you want.....

Yeah, and try taking a cheeseburger and fries into Victoria's Secret .....

or leftover chinese food into a movie theatre... I got busted for that once

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:
The idea that they could work someplace else doesn't hold water for me. For instance, if a factory owner wants an unsafe practice in his factory, and uses the rationale that workers can go elsewhere if they don't want to be exposed to the unsafe practice, most of us would say that's ridiculous, the factory should be as safe as it can be. .

I am not disagreeing with the non smoking in workplaces..... But to compare it with a factory worker who uses unsafe practices is not the same thing. Manufacturers are guided under federal employment laws and OSHA which disallow unsafe workplaces. If an employee feels he is working in an unsafe place, one phone call to the DOL or OSHA will raise a red flag. And the employee does have the right to change jobs if he feels the problem has not been corrected.

As for no smoking in a workplace... I am fine with it. I am fine with no smoking in a restaurant . What I am not fine with is the government telling us what we can and cannot do with regard to our personal health.

If the business owner said.... OK... no more smoking in my restaurant for this, this and this reason... I would be a whole lot more comfortable!

Its just like seatbelts.... motorcycle helmets, drinking and being overweight..... We have seen the statistics. We are adults and know the risks....But if we choose to go without a seatbelt, not wear a helmet, contract liver disease....stay fat and die because of any of it.... its our choice.... we have been warned. I do not believe it is my government's responsibilty to fine me or tell me not to do any of it.... ya know?

And btw... I in turn do not expect the government to compensate me because I have made risky choices in my life.....

And btw... I in turn do not expect the government to compensate me because I have made risky choices in my life

but in the end they do. People who make risky choices end up on disabiity, welfare, unemployment, social security, etc. They they end up on government health care.
BTW I'm for very little gov't involvement. I just feel the risk from second hand smoke is veyr clear. I can choose to not be in a smoking establishment or to only be there one night a week. I know folks who for various reasons are qualified to only wait tables. They have to be there. They deserve a safe work place.

captainjoe wrote:One small step in getting cigarettes banned. Here is a question for all you smokers: Why? What is the purpose of them?

I wonder how much our health insurance rates would go down if they outlawed smoking???????

I don't smoke, won't smoke, and won't date someone who does BUT I won't advocate the banning of smoking. Just me.

captainjoe wrote: I wonder how much our health insurance rates would go down if they outlawed smoking???????

While your at it outlaw preservatives in food which may cause cancer, driving which causes accidents for which people need medical attention, alcohol which causes liver disease... shall I go on?

Its not the products that make your insurance go up. Its the rediculous monies insurance companies have to pay for advertising and in settlements and lawsuits that have a far greater impact on your rates.

I smoke. I don't smoke alot. I dont smoke in your house, in your car in your workplace or in your restaurants. I will quit someday. BUT If I get sick from it... the 30 years of my insurance premiums should make a big dent in my medical bills and not effect yours.

ToplessRideFL wrote:Its just like seatbelts.... motorcycle helmets, drinking and being overweight..... We have seen the statistics. We are adults and know the risks....But if we choose to go without a seatbelt, not wear a helmet, contract liver disease....stay fat and die because of any of it.... its our choice.... we have been warned. I do not believe it is my government's responsibilty to fine me or tell me not to do any of it.... ya know?

But it's not entirely a personal or individual issue. The public health repercussions of all those example negatively affect the entire society. In these cases, I genuinely view this as government acting in society's best interest. Skyrocketing healthcare costs (that affect the entire US & world economy) are attributed to two things, primarily: smoking and obesity. If the government needs to institute laws to curb tobacco use or prevent obesity, then I'm all for it. I have just as much right to be peturbed about the amount of public money that is spent on healthcare for those who chose not to obey the glaring warnings about smoking and obesity.

Let me understand this.....


The state with the most toxic waste per square inch is worried about what people breath.......interesting

iuparrothead wrote:Skyrocketing healthcare costs (that affect the entire US & world economy) are attributed to two things, primarily: smoking and obesity. If the government needs to institute laws to curb tobacco use or prevent obesity, then I'm all for it. I have just as much right to be peturbed about the amount of public money that is spent on healthcare for those who chose not to obey the glaring warnings about smoking and obesity.

Maybe I am completely wrong, but isn't a lot of the high insurance premiums due to rise people suing? Doctors have to maintain a higher malpractice coverage, which means higher costs, all because people become sue happy (not that I am in any way downplaying those malpractice suits that are caused by legitimate negligence). At least that's what the news kept saying last year when there was a big stink about all the doctor's in PA trying to leave because of the rising requirement for malpractice coverage and the lenient laws on being able to sue doctors and hospitals.

As a smoker and a slightly overweight person, I can still say very proudly that in all the years I've held a job, I have been far healthier than any of the non smoking, thin people around me. Last year, I was the only person who did not take time off for sickness. Saying that fat people and smokers are the primary reasons for rising health costs just doesn't seem to fit.

ironic, huh?

California has been smoke-free now since '98. and I didn't think I'd notice...
But now when I go out of state, especially to Vegas, and I walk into a "smoking OK" establishment, it just knocks my socks off!!

The reek just permeates everything...

Cubbie Bear wrote:Let me understand this.....


The state with the most toxic waste per square inch is worried about what people breath.......interesting

ironic, huh?

California has been smoke-free now since '98. and I didn't think I'd notice...
But now when I go out of state, especially to Vegas, and I walk into a "smoking OK" establishment, it just knocks my socks off!!

The reek just permeates everything...

Lightning Bolt wrote:ironic, huh?

California has been smoke-free now since '98. and I didn't think I'd notice...
But now when I go out of state, especially to Vegas, and I walk into a "smoking OK" establishment, it just knocks my socks off!!

The reek just permeates everything...

As an asthmatic--wLBs.

Try to find a slot machine in LV with a smoker close to it

i really see cigarette smoke as different the motor cycle helmets and other personal infringements. Cigarettes are a stupid choice that we affect others with. I'm generally very against gov't intrusion. The effects from working in a smoking environment may not show up for years. So if you are forced to work at a young age and are in a bar or restaurant at 16yo and remain there until you are 21 you may find yourself paying for it at 50.

I'm with Rick, "Laws...we don't need no stinkin' laws"

sy wrote:

iuparrothead wrote:Skyrocketing healthcare costs (that affect the entire US & world economy) are attributed to two things, primarily: smoking and obesity. If the government needs to institute laws to curb tobacco use or prevent obesity, then I'm all for it. I have just as much right to be peturbed about the amount of public money that is spent on healthcare for those who chose not to obey the glaring warnings about smoking and obesity.

Maybe I am completely wrong, but isn't a lot of the high insurance premiums due to rise people suing? Doctors have to maintain a higher malpractice coverage, which means higher costs, all because people become sue happy (not that I am in any way downplaying those malpractice suits that are caused by legitimate negligence). At least that's what the news kept saying last year when there was a big stink about all the doctor's in PA trying to leave because of the rising requirement for malpractice coverage and the lenient laws on being able to sue doctors and hospitals.

As a smoker and a slightly overweight person, I can still say very proudly that in all the years I've held a job, I have been far healthier than any of the non smoking, thin people around me. Last year, I was the only person who did not take time off for sickness. Saying that fat people and smokers are the primary reasons for rising health costs just doesn't seem to fit.

I applaud your work attendance, but can I ask this....?
Does that mean you were not sick at all, or that you did not feel sick enough that you couldn't come in?
As a former manager, I would be upset at my people that would drag themselves in, sneezing and coughing, cuz they didn't want to use the sick days

Lightning Bolt wrote:I applaud your work attendance, but can I ask this....?
Does that mean you were not sick at all, or that you did not feel sick enough that you couldn't come in?
As a former manager, I would be upset at my people that would drag themselves in, sneezing and coughing, cuz they didn't want to use the sick days

Sorry, I should have been more specific. No, I was not sick at all. If I am sick, even remotely, I relish the fact that I can stay home and no one can call me from work and bother me. Knock on wood, it's been ages since I've been sick. Injured, yes, but not sick. I won't even come in if I have a sinus headache. I will work from home, but it gets marked as such on our calendar.

Not that I am in any way defending or saying that smoking or overeating is in any way healthy.

all her germs died from second hand smoke exposure


for those old enough to remember Homer and Jethro, there was a line in a song.....


"I don't smoke and I don't chew
and I don't go with girls that do"

sy wrote:

iuparrothead wrote:Skyrocketing healthcare costs (that affect the entire US & world economy) are attributed to two things, primarily: smoking and obesity. If the government needs to institute laws to curb tobacco use or prevent obesity, then I'm all for it. I have just as much right to be peturbed about the amount of public money that is spent on healthcare for those who chose not to obey the glaring warnings about smoking and obesity.

Maybe I am completely wrong, but isn't a lot of the high insurance premiums due to rise people suing? Doctors have to maintain a higher malpractice coverage, which means higher costs, all because people become sue happy (not that I am in any way downplaying those malpractice suits that are caused by legitimate negligence). At least that's what the news kept saying last year when there was a big stink about all the doctor's in PA trying to leave because of the rising requirement for malpractice coverage and the lenient laws on being able to sue doctors and hospitals.

As a smoker and a slightly overweight person, I can still say very proudly that in all the years I've held a job, I have been far healthier than any of the non smoking, thin people around me. Last year, I was the only person who did not take time off for sickness. Saying that fat people and smokers are the primary reasons for rising health costs just doesn't seem to fit.

Yes, malpractice costs are a heavy burden on healthcare, but not even close in comparison to the burden of preventable, lifestyle choices of smoking and obesity. Increasing malpractice premiums are kind of a direct cost on physicians and subsequently patients. But there are billions of indirect costs to the public due to smoking and obesity that add up to significantly more in overall healthcare cost. The obesity crisis alone will eventually end up eliminating businesses from being able to provide healthcare coverage to their employees.

And with all due respect, your personal experiences, although admirable, does not reflect society as a whole. Smokers and the morbidly obese miss more work on average than non smokers and those at or near ideal weight.

sy wrote:
but isn't a lot of the high insurance premiums due to rise people suing? Doctors have to maintain a higher malpractice coverage, which means higher costs, all because people become sue happy (not that I am in any way downplaying those malpractice suits that are caused by legitimate negligence). .

Its one of the biggest reasons according to the several companies I have spoken with in the last few years....(for research in employee health plans)

iuparrothead wrote: Yes, malpractice costs are a heavy burden on healthcare, but not even close in comparison to the burden of preventable, lifestyle choices of smoking and obesity. Increasing malpractice premiums are kind of a direct cost on physicians and subsequently patients. But there are billions of indirect costs to the public due to smoking and obesity that add up to significantly more in overall healthcare cost. The obesity crisis alone will eventually end up eliminating businesses from being able to provide healthcare coverage to their employees.

And with all due respect, your personal experiences, although admirable, does not reflect society as a whole. Smokers and the morbidly obese miss more work on average than non smokers and those at or near ideal weight.

I most definitely agree, and I know full well I am a minority when it comes to health, and yes, the correct term is morbidly obese. That I do have a problem with because once you hit a certain point your heart simply can't handle it and it is just a gateway to any number of ailments.
I think I was trying to make a point and didn't do it well. I have too many thoughts running through my head right now

Since none of us are experts......I think it best in some situations to at some point smile and agree to have a difference of opinion.