Today is the day....

Cubbie Bear · Post by **Cubbie Bear** » January 10, 2006 10:55 am

Sutter and Gossage routinely went 7th, 8th and 9th for a save. Smith was more of a some-8th and 9th. These guys all deserve to be in. Anyone coming up after the "Tony Larussa-ization" of baseball and has 9-gillion five pitch saves needs to be looked at differently IMHO

LIPH · Post by **LIPH** » January 10, 2006 10:57 am

If Mariano Rivera pitched the same number of innings Sutter and Gossage did, he would have been out of baseball a couple of years ago.

Cubbie Bear · Post by **Cubbie Bear** » January 10, 2006 10:58 am

exactly

CaptainP · Post by **CaptainP** » January 10, 2006 11:58 am

Cubbie Bear wrote:Sutter and Gossage routinely went 7th, 8th and 9th for a save. Smith was more of a some-8th and 9th. These guys all deserve to be in. Anyone coming up after the "Tony Larussa-ization" of baseball and has 9-gillion five pitch saves needs to be looked at differently IMHO

The problem with that theory is that ALL of the guys are doing it WITHIN THE RULES. You can't take anything away from their numbers, just because one guy did it differently than they do.

It's the same arguement with Edgar Martinez. Is he a Hall-Of-Famer? He didn't play in the field, but the RULES allowed him to not do so.

Don't hold it against someone for playing the game according to the rule book.

That oughta stimulate some debate!!!

Cubbie Bear · Post by **Cubbie Bear** » January 10, 2006 12:02 pm

Judged equally and "within the rules" do not necessarily need to be connected

iuparrothead · Post by **iuparrothead** » January 10, 2006 12:29 pm

CaptainP wrote:
Cubbie Bear wrote:Sutter and Gossage routinely went 7th, 8th and 9th for a save. Smith was more of a some-8th and 9th. These guys all deserve to be in. Anyone coming up after the "Tony Larussa-ization" of baseball and has 9-gillion five pitch saves needs to be looked at differently IMHO
The problem with that theory is that ALL of the guys are doing it WITHIN THE RULES. You can't take anything away from their numbers, just because one guy did it differently than they do.

It's the same arguement with Edgar Martinez. Is he a Hall-Of-Famer? He didn't play in the field, but the RULES allowed him to not do so.

Don't hold it against someone for playing the game according to the rule book.

That oughta stimulate some debate!!!

I concur!

(Only because I really admire Edgar!

)

Cubbie Bear · Post by **Cubbie Bear** » January 10, 2006 12:43 pm

FYI...2:00pm eastern

Cubbie Bear · Post by **Cubbie Bear** » January 10, 2006 2:05 pm

Bruce Sutter

Thats all folks

Bruce Sutter 400 76.9%

Jim Rice 337 64.8%

Rich Gossage 336 64.6%
Andre Dawson 317 61.0%
Bert Blyleven 277 53.3%
Lee Smith 234 45.0%
Jack Morris 214 41.2%
Tommy John 154 29.6%
Steve Garvey 135 26.0%
Alan Trammell 92 17.7%
Dave Parker 75 14.4%
Dave Concepcion 65 12.5%
Don Mattingly 64 12.3%
Orel Hershiser 58 11.2%
Dale Murphy 56 10.8%
Albert Belle 40 7.7%
Will Clark 23 4.4%
Dwight Gooden 17 3.3%
Willie McGee 12 2.3%
Ozzie Guillen 5 1.0%
Hal Morris 5 1.0%
Gary Gaetti 4 0.8%
John Wetteland 4 0.8%
Rick Aguilera 3 0.6%
Gregg Jefferies 2 0.4%
Doug Jones 2 0.4%
Walt Weiss 1 0.2%
Gary DiSarcina 0 0.0%
Alex Fernandez 0

BottleofRum · Post by **BottleofRum** » January 10, 2006 2:09 pm

Not even close. Rice was 53 votes short.

BottleofRum · Post by **BottleofRum** » January 10, 2006 2:12 pm

Cubbie Bear wrote:Bruce Sutter

Thats all folks

Bruce Sutter 400 76.9%

Jim Rice 337 64.8%

Rich Gossage 336 64.6%
Andre Dawson 317 61.0%
Bert Blyleven 277 53.3%
Lee Smith 234 45.0%
Jack Morris 214 41.2%
Tommy John 154 29.6%
Steve Garvey 135 26.0%
Alan Trammell 92 17.7%
Dave Parker 75 14.4%
Dave Concepcion 65 12.5%
Don Mattingly 64 12.3%
Orel Hershiser 58 11.2%
Dale Murphy 56 10.8%
Albert Belle 40 7.7%
Will Clark 23 4.4%
Dwight Gooden 17 3.3%
Willie McGee 12 2.3%
Ozzie Guillen 5 1.0%
Hal Morris 5 1.0%
Gary Gaetti 4 0.8%
John Wetteland 4 0.8%
Rick Aguilera 3 0.6%
Gregg Jefferies 2 0.4%
Doug Jones 2 0.4%
Walt Weiss 1 0.2%
Gary DiSarcina 0 0.0%
Alex Fernandez 0

I can't believe someone voted for Walt Weiss, Gregg Jefferies , Gary Gaetti and Doug Jones.

LIPH · Post by **LIPH** » January 10, 2006 2:13 pm

I can't believe anyone below Concepcion on that ballot got any votes.

Cubbie Bear · Post by **Cubbie Bear** » January 10, 2006 2:18 pm

This just in, since no player has ever been better than him, Joe Morgan declares the HOF closed, till further notice.

I was all over that Hal Morris bandwagon

RAGTOP · Post by **RAGTOP** » January 10, 2006 2:37 pm

RAGTOP · Post by **RAGTOP** » January 10, 2006 2:52 pm

I think next year every writer should replace their Mark McGwire vote with Rice since his numbers are legit

job41475 · Post by **job41475** » January 10, 2006 3:02 pm

The "playing within the rules" debate is a very valid one and the one I use all the time when people complain about all the Yankee spending each season.

CrznDnUS1 · Post by **CrznDnUS1** » January 10, 2006 3:03 pm

what about clemens? Oh nevermind you actually have to really retire to go in.

Quiet and Shy · Post by **Quiet and Shy** » January 10, 2006 4:29 pm

Congrats to Bruce Sutter!!!

It'll be interesting to see what happens next year with McGwire.

LIPH · Post by **LIPH** » January 10, 2006 4:38 pm

I think McGwire may get in eventually but there's no way in hell he gets in first try.

Cubbie Bear · Post by **Cubbie Bear** » January 10, 2006 4:40 pm

2007
Harold Baines, Derek Bell, Dante Bichette, Bobby Bonilla, Jeff Brantley, Jay Buhner, Ken Caminiti, Jose Canseco, Eric Davis, Tony Fernandez, Tony Gwynn, Darryl Hamilton, Pete Harnisch, Charlie Hayes, Glenallen Hill, Ken Hill, Stan Javier, Wally Joyner, Ramon Martinez, Mark McGwire, Paul O'Neill, Gregg Olson, Cal Ripken Jr., Bret Saberhagen, Jeff Shaw, Kevin Tapani, Devon White, Bobby Witt

2008
Shawon Dunston, Travis Fryman, David Justice, Mike Morgan, Tim Raines, Randy Velarde
2009
Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Dean Palmer, Dan Plesac, Matt Williams
2010
Andres Galarraga, Edgar Martinez, Robin Ventura

RinglingRingling · Post by **RinglingRingling** » January 10, 2006 4:42 pm

Cubbie Bear wrote:2007
Harold Baines, Derek Bell, Dante Bichette, Bobby Bonilla, Jeff Brantley, Jay Buhner, Ken Caminiti, Jose Canseco, Eric Davis, Tony Fernandez, Tony Gwynn, Darryl Hamilton, Pete Harnisch, Charlie Hayes, Glenallen Hill, Ken Hill, Stan Javier, Wally Joyner, Ramon Martinez, Mark McGwire, Paul O'Neill, Gregg Olson, Cal Ripken Jr., Bret Saberhagen, Jeff Shaw, Kevin Tapani, Devon White, Bobby Witt

2008
Shawon Dunston, Travis Fryman, David Justice, Mike Morgan, Tim Raines, Randy Velarde
2009
Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Dean Palmer, Dan Plesac, Matt Williams
2010
Andres Galarraga, Edgar Martinez, Robin Ventura

Ripken is probably a first ballot lock, highest vote total out of that 2007 crew.