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SchoonerWharf wrote:Most people who rail against them are just jealous that some of us can afford to pay that premium.

Not jealous here. I just spend my money wisely, and know my financial limits.

Catch&Release wrote:Jimmy's made efforts . . . [t]he artist gets no benefit from this deal. Why wouldn't the artist get ticked off that seats are being sold under the table to a company that's gouging fans, with no benefit to the artist?

I agree it's awful. I agree it's unfair. But even so, don't be so quick to conclude that the artist gets "no benefit" from these kinds of arrangements.

Some artists (and, I won't name names) do not distribute tickets through the traditional, high-profile ticket exchanges and do not perform at the traditional, high-profile venues. First, define the "benefit" you're talking about; then, assess whether the artist isn't receiving the "benefit". My guess is that our favorite hero takes home the lion's share of the performance revenue that each show generates (even after factoring-in operational expenses, transportation, lodging, and various other items of overhead).

I'm not aiming to spark controversy, but have you ever seen the tour riders that artists "require" in connection with a performance? Who pays for all that food, alcohol, furniture, transportation, etc.?

I think, in the end, these are high-dollar shows...for many people. Jimmy doesn't see 100% of that $50 lawn ticket you bought.

SchoonerWharf wrote:Ticket brokers stay in business because of us that are SMART enough to avoid the lines, avoid the phones and not "hope" we get tickets. I can sit here and know I can be at any show I want and they provide that service. Most people who rail against them are just jealous that some of us can afford to pay that premium.

This commentary perfectly summarizes the ebb and flow of this age-old debate. For some, including me, I know that I can always get an up-front seat because I, much to my wife's chagrin, am willing to pay dearly for the chance. If you ask me, by eliminating the broker element, you might very likely eliminate the chance for wacko-fans like me to get up front seating.

Case and point: I had front row / dead-center tickets to the Atlanta show a few years back. A couple of fans in the Atlanta area (I live in Dallas) offered me $1,000 per ticket - a substantial profit over what I paid for the tickets. I turned their offer down - I paid all the travel expenses, and loved every minute of that long weekend.

SchoonerWharf wrote:

Ticket brokers and scalpers can only stay in business because there are people who are stupid enough to pay their prices. There's no concert or sporting event that I have to go to. There are a lot I want to go to, but only if I can get tickets through normal channels and at normal prices.

Hmmm I guess you don't quite get it. Ticket brokers stay in business because of us that are SMART enough to avoid the lines, avoid the phones and not "hope" we get tickets. I can sit here and know I can be at any show I want and they provide that service. Most people who rail against them are just jealous that some of us can afford to pay that premium.

I couldn't care less.

Exactly what is it that I don't "get"? I just took a look at my ticket stub collection. In the last 5 years I went to 42 Jimmy Buffett concerts, some that I hadn't planned to go to but was able to come up with tickets, and get the time off work, at the last minute so I went. I've never been on the lawn, or in the nose bleed seats at indoor shows. I've never been on line at a TM outlet for hours "hoping" to get tickets. I've never even dialed TM's number to try and get through on the phone, I got all my tickets online from TM's website. I've never paid a scalper or a broker. Maybe I'm just unusually lucky, but I've been in the first 10 rows 9 times. What is there to be jealous about? I can afford to pay the prices that scalpers and brokers rip people off for, excuse me, the premium they charge for the service they provide, but I won't because going to a concert, Jimmy Buffett or anyone else, isn't that important to me. Besides, if I did pay those prices I wouldn't be able to go to as many shows as I do. Paying scalpers and brokers is "smart"? Not in my book.

For the record, yes, I do know someone in the band. And of those 42 shows I've been to in the last 5 years I've gotten free tickets to exactly ONE of them.

parrothead216 wrote: If you don't like brokers, then don't use them.

So far from the point. The point is, how many more people could afford tickets without the needless upcharge from a broker?

I don't use 'em for Buffett, don't need to... A ticket, or even two, are always somewhere at his shows.

I have used scalpers occasionally over the years, and I'm glad they're there as an option.
The freedom to choose how you buy your tickets is precisely what defines capitalism.
If you want to go to a show AND save money, our system often requires that you be diligent, plan thoroughly,
and be ready to purchase at the precise moment of sale.

If this is asking too much at the given time, there's the fallback plan (our friendly neighborhood scalper), and you pay for THEIR diligence and planning.

The great thing is... you are free to choose which plan fits your situation.

Bitterness toward this unique free market only seems to reflect naiveté and jealousy.
Bragging about one's ability to only choose the more expensive option seems to reflect arrogance (and a bit of laziness too?)

In the book, "Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy", Douglas Adams writes about a planet that managed to solve its problem of overpopulation by tricking 1/3 of their people, the USELESS ones, the ones who serve no real purpose in life, the ones who nobody would miss, into leaving on a spaceship programmed to crash on a distant planet (which turns out to be pre-historic Earth).


My guess? Ticket Brokers were the first ones on the Arc.

[sorry about the double post

CaptainP wrote:

parrothead216 wrote: If you don't like brokers, then don't use them.

So far from the point. The point is, how many more people could afford tickets without the needless upcharge from a broker?

Not far from the point at all Captain P, the tickets that the brokers get will never be available to the general public. They are held by people who many times get them free and turn them to make a profit! The upcharge as you say Captain is because the people who get these tickets aren't real parrotheads and sell them because they are valuable and they get a good dollar for them. If you are willing to play the waiting game, there are always tickets available, on ebay, and from brokers and simply from people who had to change there plans.

If you think that the price to see Jimmy is going to go down, you are sadly mistaken. Jimmy now is in a league of STAR who can and does get whatever he wants. The venues know that he is a guaranteed sellout. They price the tickets, to cover the cost and to make money! Jimmy used to come to us, now we go to him, but thats okay road trips are fun. But all of that adds to the cost of seeing BUBBA. What is the difference if I pay 2000.00 for 2 tickets in the first row to see him here in Cleveland or I get a seat 22 rows back in Chicago or Las Vegas at face and have to fly there and stay in a hotel and rent a car and dine out etc.etc. It is the same thing, it just cost more in a different way!

The truth of the matter is seeing JIMMY live, is quickly becoming a luxury for alot of people even if they are doing ok financially, and may I add that Jimmy likes his upscale fans. They help him to make as much if not more money every year as the last, and do fewer and fewer shows!

Captain, just one more thing, perhaps you haven't even thought of, Places like your very own CIP are helping to drive up the prices to see Jimmy! How's that you might ask, The more people get to know the man and his music, the more who might say when they see he's coming to town, "I want to see him live." More Demand .......less SUPPLY....equals higher prices for everyone!

Phins Up Captain...and lets get a CIP here in Cleveland soon!

IMHO

SchoonerWharf wrote:Ticket brokers stay in business because of us that are SMART enough to avoid the lines, avoid the phones and not "hope" we get tickets.

How does having more money to spend on concert tickets make you smarter than those who don't?

Going to a convenience store to buy milk for $8 a gallon just because it's 3 blocks closer than the grocery store where you can buy it for $3 doesn't make you smarter, it just means you didn't want to deal with the hassle. Some might call that lazy.

SharkOnLand wrote:

SchoonerWharf wrote:Ticket brokers stay in business because of us that are SMART enough to avoid the lines, avoid the phones and not "hope" we get tickets.

How does having more money to spend on concert tickets make you smarter than those who don't?

Going to a convenience store to buy milk for $8 a gallon just because it's 3 blocks closer than the grocery store where you can buy it for $3 doesn't make you smarter, it just means you didn't want to deal with the hassle. Some might call that lazy.

It doesn't make a person smarter, but you pay for convenience. It isn't necessarily being lazy. I played the game for years trying to get good seats, even subscribe to the orchestra here in Cleveland, but it didn't help! I was the 2nd person in line when they went on sale and got last row. It is sad but true that many people just can't or won't play the game!

We wish that we could go back to the times when we could go and get a good tickets, but they are long gone!

Phins Up!

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I would have no problems with scalpers if they did like the rest of us did--get up on Saturday morning, get online, stand in line, and get on the phone to get tickets. They do that for SOME of the tickets that they have. In my opinion, if they go through the normal procedure of buying tickets and buy the tickets through the same channels that you and I do, they legally own the tickets, and they have the right to do with those tickets what they please. That includes selling them for large markups. The problem that I have is that they appear to get tickets in advance, thus gaining an unfair advantage.

rednekkPH wrote:Wait, didn't anyone check the schedule? Crying about ticket broker threads are scheduled for mid-March, just after the "Jimmy is a sell-out cuz he's not playing venue x this year" thread, and before the "I go to Great Woods which means I have to cry about something" threads.

Frank you are so poetic.

SchoonerWharf wrote:

Ticket brokers and scalpers can only stay in business because there are people who are stupid enough to pay their prices. There's no concert or sporting event that I have to go to. There are a lot I want to go to, but only if I can get tickets through normal channels and at normal prices.

Hmmm I guess you don't quite get it. Ticket brokers stay in business because of us that are SMART enough to avoid the lines, avoid the phones and not "hope" we get tickets. I can sit here and know I can be at any show I want and they provide that service. Most people who rail against them are just jealous that some of us can afford to pay that premium.

I couldn't care less.

as other people have said: massively overpaying for something in most other lines of commerce would hardly be called "smart". As for the "just jealous" part, thanks for embodying the "yuppie scum" stereotype Frank talks about.

Gypsy In The Palace wrote:I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I would have no problems with scalpers if they did like the rest of us did--get up on Saturday morning, get online, stand in line, and get on the phone to get tickets. They do that for SOME of the tickets that they have. In my opinion, if they go through the normal procedure of buying tickets and buy the tickets through the same channels that you and I do, they legally own the tickets, and they have the right to do with those tickets what they please. That includes selling them for large markups. The problem that I have is that they appear to get tickets in advance, thus gaining an unfair advantage.

I don't know if this is widespread, but in Columbia, SC, some ticket "entrepreneurs" enlist the homeless and pay them $10 to stand in line. I saw a van pull up to a ticket outlet and at least 10 very haggard people got out and got in line. These people can't afford a home, I doubt that all of them got together and said "well, at least the venue will be warm." Yet, each of them had enough money to buy 8 tickets each.

Y-NO-9-O wrote:

Gypsy In The Palace wrote:I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I would have no problems with scalpers if they did like the rest of us did--get up on Saturday morning, get online, stand in line, and get on the phone to get tickets. They do that for SOME of the tickets that they have. In my opinion, if they go through the normal procedure of buying tickets and buy the tickets through the same channels that you and I do, they legally own the tickets, and they have the right to do with those tickets what they please. That includes selling them for large markups. The problem that I have is that they appear to get tickets in advance, thus gaining an unfair advantage.

I don't know if this is widespread, but in Columbia, SC, some ticket "entrepreneurs" enlist the homeless and pay them $10 to stand in line. I saw a van pull up to a ticket outlet and at least 10 very haggard people got out and got in line. These people can't afford a home, I doubt that all of them got together and said "well, at least the venue will be warm." Yet, each of them had enough money to buy 8 tickets each.

I still say one of best ways to do it is to take the model they tried in NO of tying ticket purchases to a "must take delivery in person and present the credit card used for the purchase along with ID". Add to that Jimmy reserving 1000 of the "barn tickets" for friends, family, and the PHCs in the area; and a couple 1000 of the lawn seats as well.. can't be any worse than it is now.

If you support ticket brokers by purchasing from them you're part of the problem, not the solution when it comes from keeping tickets from falling into the wrong hands. They're among the lowest life forms on the planet, right next to scalpers and those that sell copies of live shows.

Jahfin wrote: They're among the lowest life forms on the planet, right next to scalpers and those that sell copies of live shows.

lets get a little perspective on this . We live in a world where there are truly horrible people that do horrible things... I wouldn't put ticket brokers or scalpers in that category

RAGTOP wrote:

Jahfin wrote: They're among the lowest life forms on the planet, right next to scalpers and those that sell copies of live shows.

lets get a little perspective on this . We live in a world where there are truly horrible people that do horrible things... I wouldn't put ticket brokers or scalpers in that category

Ok, "brokers" and scalpers are one step above male performers in a "dog and pony show" in Tijuana. Fair enough?

RinglingRingling wrote:

RAGTOP wrote:

Jahfin wrote: They're among the lowest life forms on the planet, right next to scalpers and those that sell copies of live shows.

lets get a little perspective on this . We live in a world where there are truly horrible people that do horrible things... I wouldn't put ticket brokers or scalpers in that category

Ok, "brokers" and scalpers are one step above male performers in a "dog and pony show" in Tijuana. Fair enough?

well I would have put them a step below the "dog and pony" performers but whatever