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Y-NO-9-O wrote:

buffettbride wrote: oh yeah. and i fart. i don't fluff.

TMI

is it still fluffing when the curtains dance?

I think I can live with the brokers if they get their tix through channels unavailable to the general public.

I have a bigger issue with the secondary market on ebay and stub hub, etc.

These are people who make good money buying tix via TM and reselling them. They clog up the lines and are getting the tix that I actually have a shot at getting. To me, that is more frustrating.

Brokers have their place and distribution channels. But I can't believe ebay and other auction sites allow this kind of selling which is against the ebay rules and some state laws.

Y-NO-9-O wrote:

SharkOnLand wrote:

Buffett PHan wrote:Ya know.......Ticketmaster is in the BROKER business too. They hold back (don't release for public on-sales) seats in the first 10 rows or so and then auction them off. I'm going out on a limb here......betting those proceeds don't make it to the artist.

I've never heard of them auctioning off tickets. If you do have a link to this, I'd definitely like to read it.

They do hold back tickets, usually for the artist or the corporate sponsors, any tickets that don't end up getting used by these folks usually go onsale through Ticketmaster a few days before the event. A lot of times it's a good way to get good seats at face value.

Here's an example:
http://www.ticketmaster.ca/promo/23437? ... m_music_f9

and an article:
http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/200 ... 0910rm.htm

That's absolutely terrible. Capitalism at its worst (or best, depending on which side of the money you're on ). Yet another reason to hate ticketb@stard.

I would be interested to see if they offer this auction for any of the larger shows where there is a potential for the show to sell out.

RAGTOP wrote:I would be interested to see if they offer this auction for any of the larger shows where there is a potential for the show to sell out.

When Buffett did the hurricane benefit show in Orlando in Nov., 2004 TM auctioned the seats in rows 2-4. The front row seats, at least some of them, were raffled off the night before at Margaritaville.

I get a weekly email from TM about upcoming shows in the NYC area and they've been doing this for more than a year. Not for a lot of shows, but it's nothing new.

LIPH wrote:

RAGTOP wrote:I would be interested to see if they offer this auction for any of the larger shows where there is a potential for the show to sell out.

When Buffett did the hurricane benefit show in Orlando in Nov., 2004 TM auctioned the seats in rows 2-4. The front row seats, at least some of them, were raffled off the night before at Margaritaville.

I get a weekly email from TM about upcoming shows in the NYC area and they've been doing this for more than a year. Not for a lot of shows, but it's nothing new.

did the proceeds from the auction go to hurricane relief?

As far as I know, the proceeds from all the tickets, not just the ones that were auctioned, went to hurricane relief.

I don't really see a problem if they are auctioning off tickets for benefit shows or shows like "Glass Tiger" (example above) where the demand is not really there. It would suprise me and disappoint me to see TM auctioning off big name shows from their own inventory just to make another dollar.

Actually, the ticket brokers rarely get the tix from the source. They are pitching tix for an event that isn't even announced yet. They do this on spec. They get you to pay $500 for a ticket that isn't out yet, then they know they need to buy a ticket from someone for $250. That's why they specify only broad areas. (row 5 - 20, etc.) There are so many brokers out on the web, that you know they don't have the tix sitting in a safe somewhere.
Later after the sale happens, people with tix go to the brokers and sell them. Then the brokers might buy some tix that they know they can sell and they'll advertise them with specific seat listings.
So the folks that tick me off are the ones that jam the phonelines and web trying to get tickets just so they can sell them to brokers. For Jimmy shows there outta be a test to take before purchase.

Down2TheC wrote:Actually, the ticket brokers rarely get the tix from the source. They are pitching tix for an event that isn't even announced yet. They do this on spec. They get you to pay $500 for a ticket that isn't out yet, then they know they need to buy a ticket from someone for $250. That's why they specify only broad areas. (row 5 - 20, etc.) There are so many brokers out on the web, that you know they don't have the tix sitting in a safe somewhere.
Later after the sale happens, people with tix go to the brokers and sell them. Then the brokers might buy some tix that they know they can sell and they'll advertise them with specific seat listings.
So the folks that tick me off are the ones that jam the phonelines and web trying to get tickets just so they can sell them to brokers. For Jimmy shows there outta be a test to take before purchase.

or a pre-sale... and then leave the leavings of seats to folks whose collection of Jimmy music includes "The Yellow Album" and think he did "The Pina Colada Song"

Ticketmaster does auction off tickets for many big names such as: Coldpaly, U2, Rolling Stones, ect,. If you look at some of those event on-sale purchase pages (Ticketmaster), you'll see an auction bid link. Many of the auctions have long since ended.

SchoonerWharf wrote:

Ticket brokers and scalpers can only stay in business because there are people who are stupid enough to pay their prices. There's no concert or sporting event that I have to go to. There are a lot I want to go to, but only if I can get tickets through normal channels and at normal prices.

Hmmm I guess you don't quite get it. Ticket brokers stay in business because of us that are SMART enough to avoid the lines, avoid the phones and not "hope" we get tickets. I can sit here and know I can be at any show I want and they provide that service. Most people who rail against them are just jealous that some of us can afford to pay that premium.

I couldn't care less.

I really dont want to get into this fight again, but......... people who use brokers drive the price up for people who do the right thing and wait in line, I sure people would totally changed their minds if "All" tickets went to brokers and ticket prices went really thru the roof.

I'll never use a broker because I know I can always find someone in the lot who just wants to sell his ticket for face to someone who actually enjoys the music, not to the guy in jeans and boots standing at the entrance.

How is it that people who sell tickets on ebay are so evil? If they put tickets up for 1 cent to start with and the bidding goes as high as somebody is willing to pay (whether you consider it smart money spent or not), how is that the seller's fault?

Theoretically, they are saying "I'm putting these up for auction, like throwing a line in a lake, I may get many bites, I may not get any." So they may lose money on their tickets. If somebody out there is willing to pay top dollar for tickets, who in their right mind would sell them for less money in order to be "ethical"?

It's capitalism baby. Tickets like any other physical piece of merchandise is a commodity. The fact that governments regulate the re-sale of tickets is ridiculous. Imagine if they tried to do the same thing with cars or real estate? How many of you think the government should try to do that? Buying land or a house in an up and coming area in order to make a profit someday is the same as buying hot tickets if you can get them and selling them to the top bidder. It's one of the many things that makes America great.

I'm all for capitalism, but when brokers are given a non-market-based advantage via software programs, behind-the-scenes auctions/sales, etc., and when the lion's share of the profit goes to a broker vs. the artist...there has to be a better way. As Jimmy's a big draw, I'd love to see him leverage/influence face value pricing to more accurately reflect supply and demand. And, when Jimmy pockets an extra $600 for a front row seat, he can increase the contribution to Singing for Change. Jimmy does a lot more to earn that margin than any broker ever does.

The current system inappropriately subsidizes brokers at the expense of fans and artists...and that's not pure capitalism.

Look I will say this once and once only.

People on this board are REALLY mislead as to how a broker gets their tickets, ducats whatever you want to call them.

If you think there are "deals" with the sheds or venues, trust me on this, you have a drinking problem. (Although there is nothing wrong with that.)

The brokers who do have deals, offer those tickets to their good clients, not to the average joe on ebay.

Brokers actually do get up go to work and get on line and buy tickets, just like you and me.

Those tickets you see WAY before a show is what is known as speculation. They, much like a wall street trader, gamble that x will pay y for said tickets and they go to z to buy this ticket at less then what x will pay them to go get it. Hence your profit.

FYI, I hear you on the low life aspect of it, but this is not 1975 and you are trying to score seats to Led Zep and you slept out all night and these Slimy creatures scored tickets.

The broker is a changing industry and these people are smart, well funded and are quicker than liquor on a hot day.

No, I nor my friends are not brokers, however, I did work for a broker while I was in school years ago and trust me you would be shocked at how professional, much like the place you work at, these people are and they are NO joke.

SchoonerWharf wrote:

Ticket brokers and scalpers can only stay in business because there are people who are stupid enough to pay their prices. There's no concert or sporting event that I have to go to. There are a lot I want to go to, but only if I can get tickets through normal channels and at normal prices.

Hmmm I guess you don't quite get it. Ticket brokers stay in business because of us that are SMART enough to avoid the lines, avoid the phones and not "hope" we get tickets. I can sit here and know I can be at any show I want and they provide that service. Most people who rail against them are just jealous that some of us can afford to pay that premium.

I couldn't care less.

I never was a broker.. I was a scalper.. ( I bought my tickets from the outlets) and MOST of my tickets were on the lawn or GA

Dead shows the first Eagles Reunion. Rodeos,ball games..

you name it If I needed a few bucks I got tix and resold them.

OH yeah and Schooner??? we had a name for our Clients..




Marks


we treated those fools just like three card monte players


cash cows..

Quiet and Shy wrote: The current system inappropriately subsidizes brokers at the expense of fans and artists...and that's not pure capitalism.

Well said.

I am very impressed with U2's handling of their current tour. I logged into Ticketbastard, grabbed the cheapest tickets (only$65), and can stand in line for a front row spot. By inverting the floorplan, the GA lawn seats are around the stage and the rich yuppies can pay a broker $500 for a reserved seat towards the back where they can arrive later and valet their Escalade. The real fans benefit!

Mots wrote:I know a lot of times brokers never even aquire the tickets until weeks after they are on sale.

At the Final Four in STL they busted a broker who sold all these people tickets online and told them to meet him his hotel. Well come to find out he never possessed the tickets he promised people.... Needless to say there were quite a few angry Fighting Illini fans

I'm surprised the guy lived!

SanibelIsland wrote:The broker is a changing industry and these people are smart, well funded and are quicker than liquor on a hot day.

No, I nor my friends are not brokers, however, I did work for a broker while I was in school years ago and trust me you would be shocked at how professional, much like the place you work at, these people are and they are NO joke.

Like many others, ticket brokering is an industry that technology has changed tremendously. And yes, there are some very professional brokers...it's a competitive business.

To me, the current process is flawed because ticket selling systems just haven't kept up with technology. Technology should flatten a market not enable dominance. With tickets, way too much margin goes to a distributor (broker, who matches buyers and sellers) based on the service they provide, which further motivates them to exploit the existing systems...it just compounds this market inefficiency.

As venues and ticket co's (Ticketmaster) want to keep things as simple and low cost as possible, they're not motivated to change. E.g. why should Ticketmaster invest significant $$s in software development when they get the tickets sold with today's systems? So, any drive for change has to come from those artists with leverage (e.g. Buffett). So, does Jimmy just not care? At the very least, he's too good of a businessman not to care.

If online systems now exist for prime tickets to be sold via auction (thanks to other artists, perhaps), that could be a great step forward as it would require brokers to compete openly (reducing margins and increasing risk, thereby limiting their drive to dominate the primary ticket market) without forcing venues into complicated and expensive ticket pricing schemes. Of course Jimmy's risk with this approach is alienating fans for appearing greedy due to high price auction tickets (which is why I've suggested some type of charitable contribution be made with at least a portion of this additional margin).

Another alternative -- that was used for the Coastal Confessions show -- would require tickets be picked up at the venue upon presentation of the purchasing credit card and corresponding ID. The big arenas and sheds just aren't set up to do that for 20,000-40,000, but I'll bet the venues could handle the Pit and sections A, B, and C (minus sponsor and family/friend tickets) for an extra $1-$2 for each of those tickets. A risk with this approach might be some open seats up front.

I'm sure it's contractually and legally complex to depart from the status quo, but I'd love to see Buffett try some different things for at least part of this year's tour.

cowboyjunkie wrote:

Quiet and Shy wrote: The current system inappropriately subsidizes brokers at the expense of fans and artists...and that's not pure capitalism.

Well said.

I am very impressed with U2's handling of their current tour. I logged into Ticketbastard, grabbed the cheapest tickets (only$65), and can stand in line for a front row spot. By inverting the floorplan, the GA lawn seats are around the stage and the rich yuppies can pay a broker $500 for a reserved seat towards the back where they can arrive later and valet their Escalade. The real fans benefit!

Yeap---They benefit from a 20 minute rant on why they arent sending all of the money they make to 3rd world countrys becasuse Bono thinks he is some sort of god on some high horse.

Bono gets them close so they can hear him, and those so close think hes god they will do anything he says.