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Let me get this strait. This LOOKS like another thread that has nothing to do with Jimmy Buffett (on a Jimmy Buffett site) that just gets everybody all stirred up. Aren't this year's ticket prices enough to get worked up about?

LIPH wrote:

Sam wrote:Blowing the brainsout of a defenseless animal" for meat after sitting in a stand for hours or how ever long or sitting in the same stand and shooting itwith a camera are not as easy or as simplistic as it sounds.

I didn't say it was easy but if you're in a stand, not out in the open, chances are the animal doesn't know you're there so it's defenseless.

My point is, if someone approves of one way of killing an animal but thinks a different method of killing an animal is cruel and inhumane, it smacks of hypocrisy to me. Either killing an animal is wrong or it isn't, you can't have it both ways just because you find one method of killing acceptable.

I think it is more about the reason the animal is taken and the age of the animals involved, not just the method of the culling or killing.

In other words it is about killing the pups for their hide. Then again the methods used in executing convicted killers is questioned but the results are the same. So why is one of executing them more "humane" than another? the result is the same. There are "humane" guidelines for killing cattle, hogs, turkeys, chickens, sheep, whatever animals that are killed and sold and the meat is marketed.

Sam wrote:Then again the methods used in executing convicted killers is questioned but the results are the same.

And this has anything to do with hunting defenseless animals how? As usual, change the subject if you can't make a legitimate argument.

UncleMickey wrote:Let me get this strait. This LOOKS like another thread that has nothing to do with Jimmy Buffett (on a Jimmy Buffett site) that just gets everybody all stirred up. Aren't this year's ticket prices enough to get worked up about?

Hey, it's the BN way..........

At least politics have not been brought up yet, sorta....

Sam wrote:

LIPH wrote:

Sam wrote:Blowing the brainsout of a defenseless animal" for meat after sitting in a stand for hours or how ever long or sitting in the same stand and shooting itwith a camera are not as easy or as simplistic as it sounds.

I didn't say it was easy but if you're in a stand, not out in the open, chances are the animal doesn't know you're there so it's defenseless.

My point is, if someone approves of one way of killing an animal but thinks a different method of killing an animal is cruel and inhumane, it smacks of hypocrisy to me. Either killing an animal is wrong or it isn't, you can't have it both ways just because you find one method of killing acceptable.

I think it is more about the reason the animal is taken and the age of the animals involved, not just the method of the culling or killing.

In other words it is about killing the pups for their hide. Then again the methods used in executing convicted killers is questioned but the results are the same. So why is one of executing them more "humane" than another? the result is the same. There are "humane" guidelines for killing cattle, hogs, turkeys, chickens, sheep, whatever animals that are killed and sold and the meat is marketed.

Sam do you know what slaughter houses use as their preferred method of kill?

live2ski wrote:

Sam wrote:

LIPH wrote:

Sam wrote:Blowing the brainsout of a defenseless animal" for meat after sitting in a stand for hours or how ever long or sitting in the same stand and shooting itwith a camera are not as easy or as simplistic as it sounds.

I didn't say it was easy but if you're in a stand, not out in the open, chances are the animal doesn't know you're there so it's defenseless.

My point is, if someone approves of one way of killing an animal but thinks a different method of killing an animal is cruel and inhumane, it smacks of hypocrisy to me. Either killing an animal is wrong or it isn't, you can't have it both ways just because you find one method of killing acceptable.

I think it is more about the reason the animal is taken and the age of the animals involved, not just the method of the culling or killing.

In other words it is about killing the pups for their hide. Then again the methods used in executing convicted killers is questioned but the results are the same. So why is one of executing them more "humane" than another? the result is the same. There are "humane" guidelines for killing cattle, hogs, turkeys, chickens, sheep, whatever animals that are killed and sold and the meat is marketed.

Sam do you know what slaughter houses use as their preferred method of kill?

would this be the "bolt to the head" or the "stuff an electrified wire up an orafice" method?

Captive Bolt Gun is the most commonly used.

UncleMickey wrote:Let me get this strait. This LOOKS like another thread that has nothing to do with Jimmy Buffett (on a Jimmy Buffett site) that just gets everybody all stirred up. Aren't this year's ticket prices enough to get worked up about?

That's why is in the Off Topic Area

live2ski wrote:Captive Bolt Gun is the most commonly used.

beats an 20 lb. sledge hammer to the head, I suppose.

LIPH wrote:

Sam wrote:Then again the methods used in executing convicted killers is questioned but the results are the same.

And this has anything to do with hunting defenseless animals how? As usual, change the subject if you can't make a legitimate argument.

My apologies I had to go out for a bit ....

No Larry I was not changing the subject at all you were the one that said killing is killing (more or less) and death is the final result. I was equivocating that no matter what method people will still disagree. People don't like hunting with guns.there are people that do not like excuting those that have sentenced to be executed. We keep trying to come with more humane ways to execute prisoners i.e. hanging and the electric chair were considered inhumane ....lethal injection came about and now some are considering that to be inhumane.

God only knows what people would think if we executed prisoners by beating them to death with clubs instead of putting them to sleep the way we do our pets......

live2ski wrote:Captive Bolt Gun is the most commonly used.

Yes I know they execute animals that way. It is more or less "accepted as humane" way to kill the animal.

Sam wrote:No Larry I was not changing the subject at all you were the one that said killing is killing (more or less) and death is the final result.

You conveniently left out the part where I said "killing an animal". I never mentioned killing humans. You brought that into the equation and that's a huge leap of logic even for you.

Sam wrote:I was equivocating that no matter what method people will still disagree.

You probably mean equating. Unless you're being intentionally misleading or ambiguous. If you're going to use $10 words it's usually a good idea to use the right $10 words.

Sam wrote:

live2ski wrote:Captive Bolt Gun is the most commonly used.

Yes I know they execute animals that way. It is more or less "accepted as humane" way to kill the animal.

Do you eat beef? Do you head over to your local burger joint and chow down a double?

The same animal rights wackos that say that killing a seal is bad, usually also protest the use of a captive bolt gun. The only way to stop this is to boycott the product.

However, that being said, I can honestly say "I don't care what a few Canuckians do in their country"

Being a resident of the Mountain West, nothing annoys me more than when someone from New York tells me what should happen in my neck of the woods. Thus, why should I tell Beaver trappers what they should do in theirs?

LIPH wrote:

Sam wrote:No Larry I was not changing the subject at all you were the one that said killing is killing (more or less) and death is the final result.

You conveniently left out the part where I said "killing an animal". I never mentioned killing humans. You brought that into the equation and that's a huge leap of logic even for you.

Sam wrote:I was equivocating that no matter what method people will still disagree.

You probably mean equating. Unless you're being intentionally misleading or ambiguous. If you're going to use $10 words it's usually a good idea to use the right $10 words.

Larry,
The word "humanely" applies in both cases, does it not? After there are those that argue the electric chair and other forms of execution are cruel and inhumane. Currently a convicted murderer awaiting execution has gotten a sort of reprieve....Something about a doctor administering the chemicals not being present to ensure it is humane and the person does not suffer.

I am not sure of what you are saying, but apparently what you are saying is that there is a difference in the method of killing an animal, makes no difference? Or depending on the animal killed, that clubbing to death is not inhumane, should be an accepted form of execution. The thing is there are accepted humane ways of killing..

NO!!!! I did not overlook your mentioning killing "animals". Humans are animals no matter how one looks at it. Killing is killing with the same result. Death. Lawfully by execution, in war or in self defense or in defense of another or of property inherently dangerous to others and for survival is justified and accepted. Murder, genocide,and wholesale slaughtter are not.
I am NOT saying that the death of the animal is the same as the death of a human. You are the one that said killing results in death.( like DUH!)


One report I read said something like 300,000 seals were taken in one year. I am not sure of what year they meant.

Pardon me for my misuse of "$10.00" words. I am not a lawyer and I don't get paid to use them or for the use of them. Thank you for your correction.

Perhaps you would like to correct everyone else that misuses words in here and become the Top Grammar Cop?

LIPH wrote:

Moonie wrote:I don't have any issues with hunting...none...or firearms...own a few myself...but I think this is wrong...

Let me see if I understand this ...

1. Go hunting with a gun. Be lucky enough to find a defenseless animal in the wild. Be a good enough shot to blow its brains out, or maybe not be a good enough shot and only wound it so it suffers terribly until it finally dies from either loss of blood or being attacked by a predator. No issue for you

2. Go hunting with a club. Be lucky enough to find a defenseless animal on an ice floe. Splatter its brains all over the ice and snow with the club. Cruel and inhumane and must be stopped.

The way I see it, the end result of the 2 scenarios is the same, a defenseless animal is killed. The only distinction is the means by which the end is achieved. Maybe it's too nuanced for me and I need someone much wiser than I to explain it, but in the legal profession we call this a distinction without a difference.

I've been in the woods during deer season...pretty much no matter what you're armed with..it's almost a fair fight...deer have a very unique ability to detect anything in the woods, usually long before you see or hear them, so I'd call that fair match up...deer vs hunter...I'd never kill one...unless it was a matter of starving, but that's just my own personal conviction...those that do....go for it...

but this subject has nothing to do with hunting for survival.. or even to satisfy someone who enjoys vinison, or elk, or whatever wild it is they enjoy the taste of.....I only used that a reference...as to your using animal rights wacko..didn't want anyone to get the wrong impression. The clubbing to death of the infant seals has nothing to do with survival...not even for those who benefit from the sale of the pelts. They won't perish when this practice is stopped.

I doubt you'd know the difference between a pileated woodpecker (not the ivory bill) and a loon...and could care less about either of them....

And if, on your own...you don't understand the difference in hunting..and the clubbing to death of the infant, in front of the Mother..and other cubs..and other Mothers... purely to satisfy someones vanity...hey...that's your problem...you can't possibly think that the Mother and the other cubs are not aware of what is going on...

Moonie wrote:Having somewhat recently moved to south east Georgia, where there are a lot of manatees and dolphins. etc...

I wonder why some singer/songwriter doesn't start an effort to save them?

O wait..he has....

Wasn't that a local issue to him when he started it?

Have you ever been to Northern Ontario

live2ski wrote:

Moonie wrote:Having somewhat recently moved to south east Georgia, where there are a lot of manatees and dolphins. etc...

I wonder why some singer/songwriter doesn't start an effort to save them?

O wait..he has....

Wasn't that a local issue to him when he started it?

Have you ever been to Northern Ontario

no sure...I've not ever been sure of what his address is...always heard he had several different locations in several different states...

No, I've never been to No. Ontario..why do you ask?

live2ski wrote:

Sam wrote:

live2ski wrote:Captive Bolt Gun is the most commonly used.

Yes I know they execute animals that way. It is more or less "accepted as humane" way to kill the animal.

Do you eat beef? Do you head over to your local burger joint and chow down a double?

The same animal rights wackos that say that killing a seal is bad, usually also protest the use of a captive bolt gun. The only way to stop this is to boycott the product.

However, that being said, I can honestly say "I don't care what a few Canuckians do in their country"

Being a resident of the Mountain West, nothing annoys me more than when someone from New York tells me what should happen in my neck of the woods. Thus, why should I tell Beaver trappers what they should do in theirs?

Yes I eat beef, pork, chicken, venison, and oither critters and almost anything else that does not eat me first.

Thank you for proving my point that there are people that disagree with the form of killing and about what is humane. We have various wacko groups like PETA ( NOT the PEOPLE EAT TASTY ANIMALS, The other ones that protested RATS HAVE RIGHTS and what not)
Not everyone that believes the killing of young seals should be stopped, is a member of PETA or any other ecoterrorist group, or a member of some other organization that cares about animals.

Personally I don't think anyone could really care more about animals and their survival and conservation than a dedicated hunter. Hunters lose lands, game becomes more scarce as habitats are destroyed and not replenished. the dedicated hunter truly knows this and loves and cares for the land. I will grant thee are poachers and others that hunt that do not give the art or sport of hunting a good name.People are people. Good and Bad.


The whole situation the way I see it, falls back on the fishing industry. Seals eat fish and thus are in competition with the fishermen. Like the usal human reaction, eliminate the predators....which causes more damage to the enviroment in the end.
The fishermen came up with a way to supplement their income and eliminate the seal problem and to market their hides and fur.

I don't know if there is a serious market for seal meat, I don't see it in stores and I am pretty sure a seal cub is not going to provide much meat anyway.

What do you mean we can't tell a country what to do? They do it to us all the time. The U.N does it all the time. (Of course the U.N is quite ineffective other than a mouthpiece.) It is done to us by people in our own country everyday. You can't wear this flag, you can't say this, You cannot (fill in the blank) etc. You can't search for oil here or there. You get the picture I am sure.

Moonie wrote:

live2ski wrote:

Moonie wrote:Having somewhat recently moved to south east Georgia, where there are a lot of manatees and dolphins. etc...

I wonder why some singer/songwriter doesn't start an effort to save them?

O wait..he has....

Wasn't that a local issue to him when he started it?

Have you ever been to Northern Ontario

no sure...I've not ever been sure of what his address is...always heard he had several different locations in several different states...

No, I've never been to No. Ontario..why do you ask?

It is a different world in Northern Ontario vs our comfortable existance here in the states. We are talking about an area where residents go to Toronto for a Warm vacation.