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Posted: February 22, 2006 4:14 pm
by live2ski
Moonie wrote:live2ski wrote:Moonie wrote:live2ski wrote:rednekkPH wrote:live2ski wrote:Being a resident of the Mountain West, nothing annoys me more than when someone from New York tells me what should happen in my neck of the woods.
Speaking of such things, in-line and percussion cap muzzleloaders are for girls.
But not as much so as Tree stands and feed plots.
Ah Ha! Tiki opposes your hijacking the thread...
The Easterner did it first.
make that NORTH...Eastener...different animal.. ya know..
True. Northeasterners are just Canadians who know our national anthem. Southeasterners are easterners who do not like to recognize the pitfalls of marrying siblings.
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:14 pm
by Moonie
live2ski wrote:Moonie wrote:live2ski wrote:Moonie wrote:BTW...the HSUS...are not animal rights wackos....
In my opinion, they are one of the worst groups of animal rights wackos.
and that...we do not agree
The HSUS is very anti-hunting. Which is why I hold my beliefs about them.
Well...I support Greenpeace in their effort to save whales...(which btw...got me in a lot of trouble)....other things they do I don't support..
so..with that said...I wouldn't support the HSUS in anti-hunting...other than it depends on what's being hunter..that's pretty obvious...
but I understand why you are against them...I hope you understand my feeling towards the clubbing to death of these cubs...
AND..on that note...it's a full 80 degrees here..the sun is out..full...
you and the moddys (seems we've attracted a couple, ...or was it YOU, Troy... that attracted them?)..can have it..or lock it...or hells bells...delete the sucker..
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:16 pm
by live2ski
Moonie wrote:live2ski wrote:Moonie wrote:live2ski wrote:Moonie wrote:BTW...the HSUS...are not animal rights wackos....
In my opinion, they are one of the worst groups of animal rights wackos.
and that...we do not agree
The HSUS is very anti-hunting. Which is why I hold my beliefs about them.
Well...I support Greenpeace in their effort to save whales...(which btw...got me in a lot of trouble)....other things they do I don't support..
so..with that said...I wouldn't support the HSUS in anti-hunting...other than it depends on what's being hunter..that's pretty obvious...
but I understand why you are against them...I hope you understand my feeling towards the clubbing to death of these cubs...
AND..on that note...it's a full 80 degrees here..the sun is out..full...
you and the moddys (seems we've attracted a couple, ...or was it YOU, Troy... that attracted them?)..can have it..or lock it...or hells bells...delete the sucker..
I do understand. And I probably would not club a seal myself.
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:17 pm
by Moonie
live2ski wrote:Moonie wrote:live2ski wrote:Moonie wrote:live2ski wrote:rednekkPH wrote:
Speaking of such things, in-line and percussion cap muzzleloaders are for girls.
But not as much so as Tree stands and feed plots.
Ah Ha! Tiki opposes your hijacking the thread...
The Easterner did it first.
make that NORTH...Eastener...different animal.. ya know..
True. Northeasterners are just Canadians who know our national anthem.
Southeasterners are easterners who do not like to recognize the pitfalls of marrying siblings.
Oh ...let me assure you..Southeasterners do NOT have the market cornered on that one...not by far...
In fact...where I live...it's extremely bohemian...
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:18 pm
by Moonie
live2ski wrote:Moonie wrote:live2ski wrote:Moonie wrote:live2ski wrote:Moonie wrote:BTW...the HSUS...are not animal rights wackos....
In my opinion, they are one of the worst groups of animal rights wackos.
and that...we do not agree
The HSUS is very anti-hunting. Which is why I hold my beliefs about them.
Well...I support Greenpeace in their effort to save whales...(which btw...got me in a lot of trouble)....other things they do I don't support..
so..with that said...I wouldn't support the HSUS in anti-hunting...other than it depends on what's being hunter..that's pretty obvious...
but I understand why you are against them...I hope you understand my feeling towards the clubbing to death of these cubs...
AND..on that note...it's a full 80 degrees here..the sun is out..full...
you and the moddys (seems we've attracted a couple, ...or was it YOU, Troy... that attracted them?)..can have it..or lock it...or hells bells...delete the sucker..
I do understand. And I probably would not club a seal myself.
I feel sooo much better, your having said that...and I am definately out of here !
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:22 pm
by LIPH
Sam wrote:Larry,
The word "humanely" applies in both cases, does it not? After there are those that argue the electric chair and other forms of execution are cruel and inhumane. Currently a convicted murderer awaiting execution has gotten a sort of reprieve....Something about a doctor administering the chemicals not being present to ensure it is humane and the person does not suffer.
The discussion was about hunting
ANIMALS, not executing convicted criminals. If you can't see the difference between the two, the educational system in Georgia must be even worse than I thought it was.
Sam wrote:NO!!!! I did not overlook your mentioning killing "animals". Humans are animals no matter how one looks at it. Killing is killing with the same result. Death. Lawfully by execution, in war or in self defense or in defense of another or of property inherently dangerous to others and for survival is justified and accepted. Murder, genocide,and wholesale slaughtter are not.
I am NOT saying that the death of the animal is the same as the death of a human. You are the one that said killing results in death.( like DUH!)
The discussion was about hunting ANIMALS, not death by execution, in war, in self-defense or any other way.
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:26 pm
by Tiki Bar
Moonie wrote:It's pretty close to having run it's course...Troy and I are exchanging some different aspects and ideas regarding the subject...
It's gone 4 pages...probably won't go too many past this...
the jello thread went 4...parent shoot coach has gone 9...
what IS the problem?
other than a couple of exceptions it's stayed civil..
you get off on locking threads you don't care anything about...
go for it!
I assume this is directed at me. All I did was state my opinion on these "type" of topics... be it activist type stuff, politics, or ethics... no one ever changes their beliefs, nor seem to understand the other side's.
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:26 pm
by Sam
live2ski wrote:Sam wrote:live2ski wrote:Sam wrote:live2ski wrote:Captive Bolt Gun is the most commonly used.
Yes I know they execute animals that way. It is more or less "accepted as humane" way to kill the animal.
Do you eat beef? Do you head over to your local burger joint and chow down a double?
The same animal rights wackos that say that killing a seal is bad, usually also protest the use of a captive bolt gun. The only way to stop this is to boycott the product.
However, that being said, I can honestly say "I don't care what a few Canuckians do in their country"
Being a resident of the Mountain West, nothing annoys me more than when someone from New York tells me what should happen in my neck of the woods. Thus, why should I tell Beaver trappers what they should do in theirs?
Yes I eat beef, pork, chicken, venison, and oither critters and almost anything else that does not eat me first.
Thank you for proving my point that there are people that disagree with the form of killing and about what is humane. We have various wacko groups like PETA ( NOT the PEOPLE EAT TASTY ANIMALS, The other ones that protested RATS HAVE RIGHTS and what not)
Not everyone that believes the killing of young seals should be stopped, is a member of PETA or any other ecoterrorist group, or a member of some other organization that cares about animals.
Personally I don't think anyone could really care more about animals and their survival and conservation than a dedicated hunter. Hunters lose lands, game becomes more scarce as habitats are destroyed and not replenished. the dedicated hunter truly knows this and loves and cares for the land. I will grant thee are poachers and others that hunt that do not give the art or sport of hunting a good name.People are people. Good and Bad.
The whole situation the way I see it, falls back on the fishing industry. Seals eat fish and thus are in competition with the fishermen. Like the usal human reaction, eliminate the predators....which causes more damage to the enviroment in the end.
The fishermen came up with a way to supplement their income and eliminate the seal problem and to market their hides and fur.
I don't know if there is a serious market for seal meat, I don't see it in stores and I am pretty sure a seal cub is not going to provide much meat anyway.
What do you mean we can't tell a country what to do? They do it to us all the time. The U.N does it all the time. (Of course the U.N is quite ineffective other than a mouthpiece.) It is done to us by people in our own country everyday. You can't wear this flag, you can't say this, You cannot (fill in the blank) etc. You can't search for oil here or there. You get the picture I am sure.
Seal meat is consumed. Is it in every case? Probably not. But I do know from time spent in Alaska that this is fact.
I do not approve of the UN, Canuckia, or some lily white blue-blood from the northeast telling me what I should do in my state. Head out west and you will find this is a common belief.
I did not say that seal meat was not consumed...I wondered if there is a market for it.... Say like going to the grocery store and buying a few pounds of seal steaks.....I also said that I doubt that seal pups have much meat on them.
I have been out west and spent time out there. I know the tude. We don't like people telling us what to do in the South either. Thing is not everyone that is for or against something is a member of some group. No i do not approve of everything the HSUS wants ( like banning hunting). I don't approve of them euthanizing perfectly good animals that they cannot find a home for either. But occasionally like a blind hog.....they find an acorn.
If you think stands and blinds are for sissies. Come on down and we will get you licensed and let you go for it. Try stalk hunting around here. It is much different in terrain and heavy brush. Lonest shot you might make in all honesty might be 100-200 yards AT THE VERY MOST. Most shots probably take place well under 30 yards.
BTW I own a .50 Caliber percussion Hawkins. I also own a .460 Weatherby Mag....Care to tell me that is for sissies?
Come on down and I will let you shoot it. I don't think any weapon that a person can consistantly and accurately shoot is for sissies. After all if they can accurately shoot a minor caliber and consistantly place their bullets on target beats all misses with a major caliber. Besides that the cost involved with supplying ammo to feed the weapon ( the .460 Weatherby runs around $4.00 or more per round. How much does it cost to feed a blackpowder rifle per round? can of powder,caps,and ball do the math.)
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:28 pm
by LIPH
Moonie wrote:And if, on your own...you don't understand the difference in hunting..and the clubbing to death of the infant, in front of the Mother..and other cubs..and other Mothers... purely to satisfy someones vanity...hey...that's your problem...you can't possibly think that the Mother and the other cubs are not aware of what is going on...
I understand that hunters kill animals with guns, but the animals are no less dead than a seal that's killed with a club. I understand that some hunters like to mount their hunting trophy on the wall, sounds like satisfying someone's vanity to me.
I guess hunters only go after orphaned animals so mama bear and mama deer and mama elk don't suffer any losses.
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:30 pm
by Moonie
Tiki Bar wrote:Moonie wrote:It's pretty close to having run it's course...Troy and I are exchanging some different aspects and ideas regarding the subject...
It's gone 4 pages...probably won't go too many past this...
the jello thread went 4...parent shoot coach has gone 9...
what IS the problem?
other than a couple of exceptions it's stayed civil..
you get off on locking threads you don't care anything about...
go for it!
I assume this is directed at me. All I did was state my opinion on these "type" of topics... be it activist type stuff, politics, or ethics... no one ever changes their beliefs,
nor seem to understand the other side's.
I don't think that's a very true statement...
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:32 pm
by tikitatas
A three-part series is scheduled to be broadcast on PBS Nature, March 5, 12 and 19 called "Inside The Animal Mind".
Just an FYI.
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:32 pm
by phjrsaunt
Tiki Bar wrote:Moonie wrote:It's pretty close to having run it's course...Troy and I are exchanging some different aspects and ideas regarding the subject...
It's gone 4 pages...probably won't go too many past this...
the jello thread went 4...parent shoot coach has gone 9...
what IS the problem?
other than a couple of exceptions it's stayed civil..
you get off on locking threads you don't care anything about...
go for it!
I assume this is directed at me. All I did was state my opinion on these "type" of topics... be it activist type stuff, politics, or ethics... no one ever changes their beliefs, nor seem to understand the other side's.
Could have been me, Tiki. It's well known that I get my kicks by locking threads
What I see in this thread: the same people bashing their heads against walls that they pretty much know won't break. I guess I don't get the "why."
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:33 pm
by Moonie
LIPH wrote:Moonie wrote:And if, on your own...you don't understand the difference in hunting..and the clubbing to death of the infant, in front of the Mother..and other cubs..and other Mothers... purely to satisfy someones vanity...hey...that's your problem...you can't possibly think that the Mother and the other cubs are not aware of what is going on...
I understand that hunters kill animals with guns, but the animals are no less dead than a seal that's killed with a club. I understand that some hunters like to mount their hunting trophy on the wall, sounds like satisfying someone's vanity to me.
I guess hunters only go after orphaned animals so mama bear and mama deer and mama elk don't suffer any losses.
I guess there are just some things you won't be able to understand...
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:34 pm
by ToplessRideFL
Tiki Bar wrote:Here's what I don't understand about topics such as these...
There are always opposing viewpoints, and whenever they are discussed until both "sides" are blue in the face, no one ever backs down on their position or changes their mind. So why bother?
I dont mind a decent debate..... because if given the right facts, I may change my mind..... However religion, politics and issues such as animal rights and abortion are so personal to people... I think you are right tiki.... I wont force my opinion on you and in turn....don't force your opinion on me......
And before I go... this is in no way saying these topics should not be posted. Nor is it a slam to any cause I do not believe in..... its just a statement that if you are going to post about such items...expect controversy!
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:36 pm
by Moonie
LIPH wrote: If you can't see the difference between the two, the educational system in Georgia must be even worse than I thought it was.
You don't know anything about the Georgia Educational System... nor the report that was just issued today...
Posted: February 22, 2006 4:45 pm
by Sam
LIPH wrote:Sam wrote:Larry,
The word "humanely" applies in both cases, does it not? After there are those that argue the electric chair and other forms of execution are cruel and inhumane. Currently a convicted murderer awaiting execution has gotten a sort of reprieve....Something about a doctor administering the chemicals not being present to ensure it is humane and the person does not suffer.
The discussion was about hunting
ANIMALS, not executing convicted criminals. If you can't see the difference between the two, the educational system in Georgia must be even worse than I thought it was.
Sam wrote:NO!!!! I did not overlook your mentioning killing "animals". Humans are animals no matter how one looks at it. Killing is killing with the same result. Death. Lawfully by execution, in war or in self defense or in defense of another or of property inherently dangerous to others and for survival is justified and accepted. Murder, genocide,and wholesale slaughtter are not.
I am NOT saying that the death of the animal is the same as the death of a human. You are the one that said killing results in death.( like DUH!)
The discussion was about hunting ANIMALS, not death by execution, in war, in self-defense or any other way.
Larry I guess you are to wrapped up in something to understand so I will forgive you.
I clearly stated that I do not consider clubbing seal pups to be hunting.
When you want to compare what is humane for an animal then be ready to say what is humane for a human. Either there is accepted humane treatment or there is not. Which is it?
Again my point was /is that people have different views on what is accepted as humane treatment and what is not.
YOU clearly compared hunting and clubbing and said it had the same results and there was no difference in the results.
Apparently your opinion is just as good as mine or anyone else that has chosen to comment on this issue.
Who is changing the topic counselor???
I said what I stated for a reason and defined my statements.
Everyone knows what you said about animals and killing. Need I go back to your statements 1 and 2 about hunting?
You clearly stated that you saw no difference as the killings resulted in death.
Do you deny there is an (more or less) accepted humane way to kill animals, than clubbing to kill an animal?
Are you saying clubbing an infant living creature to death is humane and acceptable treatment? ( a given here that self preservation or protection of others is not involved )
Posted: February 22, 2006 5:09 pm
by LIPH
Moonie wrote:LIPH wrote: If you can't see the difference between the two, the educational system in Georgia must be even worse than I thought it was.
You don't know anything about the Georgia Educational System... nor the report that was just issued today...
And you know even less about me than I know about Georgia so I would appreciate if you would stop assuming you know what I do or do not understand. That fact that I, or anyone else, disagrees with your opinion doesn't mean I, or anyone else, doesn't understand the issue.
Posted: February 22, 2006 5:10 pm
by Sam
phjrsaunt wrote:Tiki Bar wrote:Moonie wrote:It's pretty close to having run it's course...Troy and I are exchanging some different aspects and ideas regarding the subject...
It's gone 4 pages...probably won't go too many past this...
the jello thread went 4...parent shoot coach has gone 9...
what IS the problem?
other than a couple of exceptions it's stayed civil..
you get off on locking threads you don't care anything about...
go for it!
I assume this is directed at me. All I did was state my opinion on these "type" of topics... be it activist type stuff, politics, or ethics... no one ever changes their beliefs, nor seem to understand the other side's.
Could have been me, Tiki. It's well known that I get my kicks by locking threads
What I see in this thread: the same people bashing their heads against walls that they pretty much know won't break. I guess I don't get the "why."
>>>>>INTERMISSION<<<<<<
So it is ok for there to be 8 pages about Jello??? or HEAVEN FORBID SPORTS???? SHEESH!!!
After all this is a Jimmy Buffet forum.... why would anyone want to talk about anything else in the
Off Topic area? I mean apparently things like current events or save the manatee or snow leopards or baby seals or save the "bippy" are apprently not fitting subjects to discuss.
But it is apparently fine to have 8 pages about JELLO
Or to talk sports or Olympics or any other of the mindless drivel that a moddy must approve? SHEESH!!!
Well why don't the moddies that zap us so much, just give us topics and let them post what they want us to say, and then we can save our time and go out and drink beer and eat cheeseburgers and boat drinks, or go sailing or hunting or to the beach or something. Leaving the moddies to handle the conversation since that way they don't have to moderate us and make the job easier on themselves and we give them a vacation.
I mean why should people even converse in here on any subject if a moddy doesn't like the topic ( given topic within guideline standards) and decides that the topic has been talked out, while everyone is behaving themselves and being polite to one another and still chatting it up??? SHEESH!!!!
The thing is people may never convince anyone of their view..but it gives people a chance to learn from each other. Troy,Larry, who ever else, all have things that they can teach and give us food for thought if allowed the opportunity.
Posted: February 22, 2006 5:11 pm
by Moonie
LIPH wrote:Moonie wrote:LIPH wrote: If you can't see the difference between the two, the educational system in Georgia must be even worse than I thought it was.
You don't know anything about the Georgia Educational System... nor the report that was just issued today...
And you know even less about me than I know about Georgia so I would appreciate if you would stop assuming you know what I do or do not understand. That fact that I, or anyone else, disagrees with your opinion doesn't mean I, or anyone else, doesn't understand the issue.
THAT may very well be...but you still don't know anything about the Georgia Educational System..
personally...I don't want to know anything about you....
Posted: February 22, 2006 5:12 pm
by LIPH
Sam --
You're probably the only person here who could turn a discussion about killing animals into a discussion on a humane way to kill humans and insist you haven't changed the subject.
I'm done here. Have fun not making sense.