The Bible

Sam · Post by **Sam** » April 3, 2006 3:00 pm

Found this quote , and thought I would share it. It does seem applicable, since some people were saying as they did, about not proving a negative.
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"Atheism comes from, literally, the Greek word a-, 'the negative'; and theism, the word theos for 'god' —'negative God' or 'there is no God.' It is affirming the non-existence of God. It affirms a negative. Anyone with an introductory course in philosophy recognizes that it is a logical contradiction. It would be like me saying to you, 'There is no such thing as a white stone with black dots anywhere in all of the galaxies of this universe.' The only way I can affirm that is if I have unlimited knowledge of this universe. So to affirm an absolute negative is self-defeating, because what you are saying is, 'I have infinite knowledge in order to say to you, "There is nobody within finite knowledge".' Atheism, as a system, is self-defeating." —Dr. Ravi Zacharias

IrishG · Post by **IrishG** » April 3, 2006 3:20 pm

NYCPORT wrote:The Bible was written through divine inspiration from God

See here's where I start to have a problem...You honestly think that??? Come on.

the inspiration for the bible is irrelevant. The point is that it was written and rewritten by men who are NOT perfect. Since no man is perfect, regardless of their inspiration, the Bible can't be perfect and taken literally, at least not word for word.

I have a friend who is extremely religious, travels the world doing missionary work and helping others. I had the most amazing conversation with him a couple weeks ago. He strongly believes in the Lord, his dying for our sins, all that stuff....but he fully recognizes the hypocrisy that can be found in the Bible. He actually quoted many verses that directly contradicted each other. That doesn't affect his faith in any way, but he does recognize that a book written by men can't possibly be considered 100% fact, especially considering it wasn't written by the hand of God himself. By far, this guy is the most realistic and down to earth Christian I've ever met.

In response to Sam's quote above, on the very same token, there's no proof that God actually exists. Your quote basically says, "you don't have proof God doesn't exist, so you can't say he doesn't".....Atheists can say the exact same in return...."you have no proof he does exist....."

buffettbride · Post by **buffettbride** » April 3, 2006 3:25 pm

Voltaire wrote: If God didn't exist, it would be necessary to invent him

NYCPORT · Post by **NYCPORT** » April 3, 2006 3:28 pm

[quote="IrishG]
I have a friend who is extremely religious, travels the world doing missionary work and helping others. [/quote]

Don't even get me started about missionaries.

buffettbride · Post by **buffettbride** » April 3, 2006 3:29 pm

NYCPORT wrote:
Don't even get me started about missionaries.

Sometimes I fantasize about running over the mormons in suits on bikes when they are driving through my neighborhood.

IrishG · Post by **IrishG** » April 3, 2006 3:32 pm

NYCPORT wrote:
Don't even get me started about missionaries.

Not the type of missionary who travels to regions unknown only to force the unwilling tribes into Christianity. Not that type.

He only goes to places where they are more or less requested..and the majority of his time there is doing things like building roads for villages who have trouble getting their crops to market, helping create better sanitary conditions in regards to waste...mostly he's doing things to better their lives (we're in the engineering world). He doesn't preach to anybody, only talks to those who are eager to learn or listen.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » April 3, 2006 3:32 pm

IrishG wrote:
NYCPORT wrote:The Bible was written through divine inspiration from God

See here's where I start to have a problem...You honestly think that??? Come on.
the inspiration for the bible is irrelevant. The point is that it was written and rewritten by men who are NOT perfect. Since no man is perfect, regardless of their inspiration, the Bible can't be perfect and taken literally, at least not word for word.

I have a friend who is extremely religious, travels the world doing missionary work and helping others. I had the most amazing conversation with him a couple weeks ago. He strongly believes in the Lord, his dying for our sins, all that stuff....but he fully recognizes the hypocrisy that can be found in the Bible. He actually quoted many verses that directly contradicted each other. That doesn't affect his faith in any way, but he does recognize that a book written by men can't possibly be considered 100% fact, especially considering it wasn't written by the hand of God himself. By far, this guy is the most realistic and down to earth Christian I've ever met.

In response to Sam's quote above, on the very same token, there's no proof that God actually exists. Your quote basically says, "you don't have proof God doesn't exist, so you can't say he doesn't".....Atheists can say the exact same in return...."you have no proof he does exist....."

Actually I have all the proof that I need to in his existence. I see in everyday in the miracles and wonders and complexities of life. I don't condemn or attack others for their beliefs either in God or not believing in him or whatever religion they practice or don't. That is clearly their choice to make.

bumper · Post by **bumper** » April 3, 2006 3:42 pm

Sam wrote:
IrishG wrote:
NYCPORT wrote:The Bible was written through divine inspiration from God

See here's where I start to have a problem...You honestly think that??? Come on.
the inspiration for the bible is irrelevant. The point is that it was written and rewritten by men who are NOT perfect. Since no man is perfect, regardless of their inspiration, the Bible can't be perfect and taken literally, at least not word for word.

I have a friend who is extremely religious, travels the world doing missionary work and helping others. I had the most amazing conversation with him a couple weeks ago. He strongly believes in the Lord, his dying for our sins, all that stuff....but he fully recognizes the hypocrisy that can be found in the Bible. He actually quoted many verses that directly contradicted each other. That doesn't affect his faith in any way, but he does recognize that a book written by men can't possibly be considered 100% fact, especially considering it wasn't written by the hand of God himself. By far, this guy is the most realistic and down to earth Christian I've ever met.

In response to Sam's quote above, on the very same token, there's no proof that God actually exists. Your quote basically says, "you don't have proof God doesn't exist, so you can't say he doesn't".....Atheists can say the exact same in return...."you have no proof he does exist....."
Actually I have all the proof that I need to in his existence. I see in everyday in the miracles and wonders and complexities of life. I don't condemn or attack others for their beliefs either in God or not believing in him or whatever religion they practice or don't. That is clearly their choice to make.

nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind

buffettbride · Post by **buffettbride** » April 3, 2006 3:43 pm

bumper wrote:
nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind

kinda like chasing tail.

bumper · Post by **bumper** » April 3, 2006 3:45 pm

buffettbride wrote:
bumper wrote:
nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind
kinda like chasing tail.

I have a feeling when you do it..the outcome is different..unless you forgot the "your" inbetween the chasing and tail

bumper · Post by **bumper** » April 3, 2006 3:45 pm

buffettbride wrote:
bumper wrote:
nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind
kinda like chasing tail.

I have a feeling when you do it..the outcome is different..unless you forgot the "your" inbetween the chasing and tail

LIPH · Post by **LIPH** » April 3, 2006 3:45 pm

buffettbride wrote:
bumper wrote:
nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind
kinda like chasing tail.

My favorite pasttime. I never thought of it in the same sentence as religion before but it has led to more than a few religious experiences. I'm going straight to hell now

buffettbride · Post by **buffettbride** » April 3, 2006 3:45 pm

bumper wrote:
buffettbride wrote:
bumper wrote:
nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind
kinda like chasing tail.
I have a feeling when you do it..the outcome is different..unless you forgot the "your" inbetween the chasing and tail

Ohhh. Did I forget the "your"?

I hate it when that happens.

buffettbride · Post by **buffettbride** » April 3, 2006 3:46 pm

LIPH wrote:I'm going straight to hell now

That's OK. There's a bunch of us with an air conditioned suite reserved and you're more than welcome to join us.

Tiki Bar · Post by **Tiki Bar** » April 3, 2006 3:47 pm

Chasing tail in the bible thread?!?!?

buffettbride · Post by **buffettbride** » April 3, 2006 3:48 pm

Tiki Bar wrote:Chasing tail in the bible thread?!?!?

I have 3 days to get to 20K posts. Work with me people.

Coconuts · Post by **Coconuts** » April 3, 2006 3:49 pm

LIPH wrote:
buffettbride wrote:
bumper wrote:
nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind
kinda like chasing tail.
My favorite pasttime. I never thought of it in the same sentence as religion before but it has led to more than a few religious experiences. I'm going straight to hell now

It's alright- Just save Mal and I seats, ok?

And Bumper- you're right, my cats don't chase their own tails, just attack the other's tail.

buffettbride · Post by **buffettbride** » April 3, 2006 3:49 pm

Coconuts wrote:
LIPH wrote:
buffettbride wrote:
bumper wrote:
nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind
kinda like chasing tail.
My favorite pasttime. I never thought of it in the same sentence as religion before but it has led to more than a few religious experiences. I'm going straight to hell now
It's alright- Just save Mal and I seats, ok?

And Bumper- you're right, my cats don't chase their own tails, just attack the other's tail.

I don't need a seat. I have Frankie's lap reserved.

NYCPORT · Post by **NYCPORT** » April 3, 2006 5:57 pm

IrishG wrote:
NYCPORT wrote:
Don't even get me started about missionaries.
Not the type of missionary who travels to regions unknown only to force the unwilling tribes into Christianity. Not that type.

He only goes to places where they are more or less requested..and the majority of his time there is doing things like building roads for villages who have trouble getting their crops to market, helping create better sanitary conditions in regards to waste...mostly he's doing things to better their lives (we're in the engineering world). He doesn't preach to anybody, only talks to those who are eager to learn or listen.

Oh good, the ones you discribed were the ones I can't stand. The gaul of people to think that anybody wants them to come and "spread the word".

Soraya · Post by **Soraya** » April 3, 2006 8:23 pm

Sam wrote:Found this quote , and thought I would share it. It does seem applicable, since some people were saying as they did, about not proving a negative.
************************************************************

"Atheism comes from, literally, the Greek word a-, 'the negative'; and theism, the word theos for 'god' —'negative God' or 'there is no God.' It is affirming the non-existence of God. It affirms a negative. Anyone with an introductory course in philosophy recognizes that it is a logical contradiction. It would be like me saying to you, 'There is no such thing as a white stone with black dots anywhere in all of the galaxies of this universe.' The only way I can affirm that is if I have unlimited knowledge of this universe. So to affirm an absolute negative is self-defeating, because what you are saying is, 'I have infinite knowledge in order to say to you, "There is nobody within finite knowledge".' Atheism, as a system, is self-defeating." —Dr. Ravi Zacharias

And all words are literal to their Latin roots? That is going to make for interesting new meanings for common words in American English.

And for a bit of etymology: ….the Latin ‘an’ means ‘without’….not negative. It means “Without Theism”…..not Negative God. You still can’t prove a negative, but you can go “without” something, in this case belief in any god(s). Also, you really should know something of Latin grammar before you go quoting preachers that incorrectly prooftexts Latin!

And, the word actually has it’s beginning, not in Latin, but from the Greek (atheos meaning godless, from a (without) + theos (god)) by way of Middle French (athéisme).

Oh, and your source, is a rightwing fundie speaker who converted from being Hindu. Talk about your tainted source for what an atheist really is. It would be like me asking atheist for their definition of a theist....not the most objective.

Of course Ravi will show atheistism in the worst possible light, in fact, it is his contention that unless you are Christian, your life has not worth. He spins what he considers facts to fit what his preconceived notion already is and is also known for picking and choosing very carefully what he chooses to respond to and ignoring the rest.

Try again it again, Sam. Incorrect emptomolgy from a tainted source……Why not use facts next time?