The Bible

[Sidew13]

nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind

At first I was glued to this thread. I expressed my thoughts. But now all I see is.....
"there is a God"
"no there isn't"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"no"

[Soraya]

nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind

At first I was glued to this thread. I expressed my thoughts. But now all I see is.....
"there is a God"
"no there isn't"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"no"

And the thing is....for a person of faith....there should be no need to prove anything. That is why it's called faith!! The problem comes into play when some people of faith demand that others agree that they have the 'truth'...which they can't prove...because they don't have to!

It makes no sense sometimes.

[tjtryon]

I first saw this thread and said, OMG, there's going to be quite the controversey. Discussions of religion tend to do that. You know what? I was right, but I'm impressed with the respect that most have given to others views, and that it's not just the "Bible Thumper" crowd.

Before I started middle school, I spent my summers with my Grandmother, who sent me off to Vacation Bible School for the local Methodist Church. I don't really remember much of that or that time, aside from we went to a Methodist Church occasionally.

I spent many years in Catholic Schools, specifically, because at that time, the local schools were not the best. My parents were both educators, and they did not really have high thoughts towards the public schools. In middle school, my family (my parents) decided to join the Catholic Church, as it would be less expensive to send us to the schools then. I had CCD, First Communion, Confirmation and lots of other stuff thrown at me all at once, kind of overwelming, but we did LOTS of Bible Study at the time.

I now consider myself a recovering Catholic, I haven't been to church in many years, though my lovely wife and I discuss going from time to time. My fear is that, with my heathen ways, that the church will be struck by lightening when I go. I'm a scientist and an engineer. I like to see things physically, and as a computer guy, I look at things logically. I see religion as a great concept to controll the masses of people, as people as a society need something to believe in. I don't really know if an organized religion is for me at this point, as long as I live my life in a good way I know I am a good person. I am a libertarian. As such, I don't think anyone should force or tell me how to live my life, period. As long as I am not doing something detremental to society or to any other individual, nobody should have any say so or any issues. My personal liberties are very important to me, and you do loose some of them when you do organized religion.

The Bible. With my beliefs, I don't read the Bible, I don't even own one. I don't have any problem with the Bible though, as an engineer and scientist, I just don't necessarily believe things that are written, as I think it is more logical to believe that these "miracles" were added to the book when it was written or when it was made "official", or maybe decided during the Council of Nicea. I don't know, I wasn't there, it just seems more logical that the "Miracles" were created after the fact and added to the books to draw people to Christianity. As a libertarian, I see some of the teachings of the bible to limit my personal liberties. For others, if the Bible works for them, wonderful. For me, my "bible" is my personal beliefs and morals, in which I do believe in many of the "theories" of the Bible.

I've been rambling enough, I'm going to end here.

[tommcat327]

Found this quote , and thought I would share it. It does seem applicable, since some people were saying as they did, about not proving a negative.
************************************************************

"Atheism comes from, literally, the Greek word a-, 'the negative'; and theism, the word theos for 'god' —'negative God' or 'there is no God.' It is affirming the non-existence of God. It affirms a negative. Anyone with an introductory course in philosophy recognizes that it is a logical contradiction. It would be like me saying to you, 'There is no such thing as a white stone with black dots anywhere in all of the galaxies of this universe.' The only way I can affirm that is if I have unlimited knowledge of this universe. So to affirm an absolute negative is self-defeating, because what you are saying is, 'I have infinite knowledge in order to say to you, "There is nobody within finite knowledge".' Atheism, as a system, is self-defeating." —Dr. Ravi Zacharias

possibly one of the most retarded statements i've read in a long time.

[ragtopW]

nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind

At first I was glued to this thread. I expressed my thoughts. But now all I see is.....
"there is a God"
"no there isn't"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"no"

yes..

[pbans]

nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind

At first I was glued to this thread. I expressed my thoughts. But now all I see is.....
"there is a God"
"no there isn't"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"no"

yes..

Maybe?

[ragtopW]

nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind

At first I was glued to this thread. I expressed my thoughts. But now all I see is.....
"there is a God"
"no there isn't"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"no"

yes..

Maybe?

maybe not..

[Coconuts]

Wayne, honey- you're arguing with yourself, you know that, right?

[ragtopW]

Wayne, honey- you're arguing with yourself, you know that, right?

Better than Being mad and not talking to myself..

[Coconuts]

Wayne, honey- you're arguing with yourself, you know that, right?

Better than Being mad and not talking to myself..

Nice!

[Sam]

Found this quote , and thought I would share it. It does seem applicable, since some people were saying as they did, about not proving a negative.
************************************************************

"Atheism comes from, literally, the Greek word a-, 'the negative'; and theism, the word theos for 'god' —'negative God' or 'there is no God.' It is affirming the non-existence of God. It affirms a negative. Anyone with an introductory course in philosophy recognizes that it is a logical contradiction. It would be like me saying to you, 'There is no such thing as a white stone with black dots anywhere in all of the galaxies of this universe.' The only way I can affirm that is if I have unlimited knowledge of this universe. So to affirm an absolute negative is self-defeating, because what you are saying is, 'I have infinite knowledge in order to say to you, "There is nobody within finite knowledge".' Atheism, as a system, is self-defeating." —Dr. Ravi Zacharias

And all words are literal to their Latin roots? That is going to make for interesting new meanings for common words in American English.

And for a bit of etymology: ….the Latin ‘an’ means ‘without’….not negative. It means “Without Theism”…..not Negative God. You still can’t prove a negative, but you can go “without” something, in this case belief in any god(s). Also, you really should know something of Latin grammar before you go quoting preachers that incorrectly prooftexts Latin!

And, the word actually has it’s beginning, not in Latin, but from the Greek (atheos meaning godless, from a (without) + theos (god)) by way of Middle French (athéisme).

Oh, and your source, is a rightwing fundie speaker who converted from being Hindu. Talk about your tainted source for what an atheist really is. It would be like me asking atheist for their definition of a theist....not the most objective.

Of course Ravi will show atheistism in the worst possible light, in fact, it is his contention that unless you are Christian, your life has not worth. He spins what he considers facts to fit what his preconceived notion already is and is also known for picking and choosing very carefully what he chooses to respond to and ignoring the rest.

Try again it again, Sam. Incorrect emptomolgy from a tainted source……Why not use facts next time?

I posted for the reason,as I said.
As to knowing the translation he used? Why should I? I don't have a problem with the quote or what he said it meant. I did not say I believed or did not believe it. Obviously you took issue with HIS definitions. NOTE HIS DEFINITIONS.......HIS interpretations.

I don't know who the man is nor his beliefs, nor anything else about him. I am not judging him for his or you for yours. I see no need to insult him if he is pointitng them out in the BEST/WORST view, as you claim. I mean wouldn't an atheist try to present their side in the best possible light as well? So you yourself could be a "tainted source" as well.

I am not going to argue with you about it. If you want to keep that arguement up, then please by all means do so. But I won't.

BTW,not that it makes much difference, but he did say "Greek text". You said Latin. Most of the translated original texts books were written in Ancient Greek and Ancient Hebrew ( Aramaic ?) texts, from I have read about them. No doubt there were some later written in Latin.

As words that come from ancient languages often evolve and change over the years, just as other words in our own language take on new meanings or become slang or whatever. None of us were there at the time, all the centuries ago, when the particular word was created.

I am not trying to convert/convince anyone that there is or isn't a God. Your Faith in there isn't, one or any God or gods, is clearly your Faith. Just as my Faith is that God exists is my own.

The original topic was not about if God or gods exists. It was about what the Bible meant to people.

[Sam]

Wayne, honey- you're arguing with yourself, you know that, right?

Better than Being mad and not talking to myself..

LOL Nothing wrong with talking to yourself, sometimes you can have more ingelligent conversations with yourself.

[ragtopW]

after some thought and Brad I know this is not what you were after

The Bible was more or less the reason the Printing press was invented
if not for the need/wish/desire to get the Bible in the hands of the masses.
We would (as a group) not have become able to read
(or taught)
so in a way the Bible was the start of all

[Sidew13]

nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind

At first I was glued to this thread. I expressed my thoughts. But now all I see is.....
"there is a God"
"no there isn't"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"no"

And the thing is....for a person of faith....there should be no need to prove anything. That is why it's called faith!! The problem comes into play when some people of faith demand that others agree that they have the 'truth'...which they can't prove...because they don't have to!

It makes no sense sometimes.

here we go, AGAIN

[RinglingRingling]

after some thought and Brad I know this is not what you were after

The Bible was more or less the reason the Printing press was invented
if not for the need/wish/desire to get the Bible in the hands of the masses.
We would (as a group) not have become able to read (or taught)
so in a way the Bible was the start of all

I can accept this.

[ph4ever]

nice thing about religious and political discussions they generally make a big circle and end up where they started..no further ahead or farther behind

At first I was glued to this thread. I expressed my thoughts. But now all I see is.....
"there is a God"
"no there isn't"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"no"
"yes"
"no"

And the thing is....for a person of faith....there should be no need to prove anything. That is why it's called faith!! The problem comes into play when some people of faith demand that others agree that they have the 'truth'...which they can't prove...because they don't have to!

It makes no sense sometimes.

I can't prove the air exists but I know it does. I feel it, sometimes I smell it.

I don't see anyone trying to convert you, but rather you trying to convince those that believe in God, or a higher power, that there is no such thing.

[Soraya]

I can't prove the air exists but I know it does. I feel it, sometimes I smell it.

It is really rather easy to prove that air exists. If you can feel it and smell it..that is one level of proof righ there. You can't feel and smell nothing. Some people may lack the science to do so, or even ever need to, but it can be proven.

I don't see anyone trying to convert you, but rather you trying to convince those that believe in God, or a higher power, that there is no such thing.

Where have I said any such thing? In fact, in the post that you responded to, I said, flat out, that people with faith don't have to prove it. That it is their faith.

The issue only is when they demand that others believe the same things they do and bow to their logic. (That the Bible is the inspired word directly from a God, because the Bible says it is. It's circular reasoning. If it works for people of faith, because they have faith, that is great, but they shouldn't expect others, who do not have faith, to believe it as well. It gets very revolting when, because a person doesn't have faith, they are assumed to be immoral in some regards, when I don't see that having faith automactically makes you a moral person either.)

[tommcat327]

I can't prove the air exists but I know it does. I feel it, sometimes I smell it.

science has proven air exists, bad comparison

[cocotel]

I have to agree with Soraya on the topic of faith.
You need not prove to anyone. It is what it is. You believe trust and that's that. God is the only one we need to prove our faith to.
Too many Christians are so caught up with having to "save their friends".
It's a Christians responsibility to share their faith, not pressure it on anyone. Plant your seed and leave it at that.
I have faith and trust and belief but if my best friend (for example) does not, well, that's their choice. Should I have care and concern for them? Of course I do. But this is why God gave us all a free will.

[Lightning Bolt]

I can't prove the air exists but I know it does. I feel it, sometimes I smell it.

science has proven air exists, bad comparison

Los Angeles proves almost daily that air, and what's mixed in with it, CAN be seen!