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Posted: **March 28, 2006 8:16 am**

Soraya wrote:Actually, it's not really Brad that I would be concerned about.

Maybe I currently have my nerves very close the surface. I moved from pretty liberal, mostly culturally Catholic lake town in Northern Ohio to a town in the South that has a hard-core, right wing Southern Baptist Seminary. (Just north of Raleigh proper for folks in the area).

Quite honestly my blood boils with how they try to control the entire town to there standards (using the bible as justification....but knowing little about it's history) then bad mouth the public schools but yet some send their children there (normally for only short periods of time) to evangelize the other students....while their children are being some of the biggest tattle-tails and bullies around.

That harsh learning experience has taught me, for good or bad, to be very wary of Christianity in general....and certainly of anyone that claims to live by that book.

I apologize it if I assume the worst when it comes to religious discussion...I didn't used to be this way. In fact, I used to hear claims of what went on in the 'Bible belt' and felt sure they were more figments of the person's paranoid imagination. Then I learned otherwise.

Too many people use 'The Bible' as a weapon. It is not the only source of morality.

I can somehow relate to your feelings as this story hits close to home. I was born and raised Catholic. My father came from a big Catholic family, all the sons were alter boys, etc. You weren't allowed to get married unless you married another Catholic. But this was the 50s and 60s.

I listened to my parents quote the church practicing to others, yet they used birth control in the 60s. This was the 60s, a big no no back then, not like now. The icing on the cake was when my dad got himself a girlfriend, divorced my mom. I'm ok with that. We are all human and grow apart at times. BUT the problem I have with the Catholic church is that they granted my dad an annulment so he could remarry his girlfriend and continue in the Catholic church.

This is when I lost faith in the Catholic church and see that they used their rules to suit them and theirs.

But I digress...sorry Brad. I perfer the Bible for my reading and peace of mind now, not to have others tell me what they think the Bible wants me to do.

Posted: **March 28, 2006 8:25 am**

Soraya wrote:**I know I will live to regret this**

I do not mean to pick a fight..but you've just proven my point.

#1 - Respect is great...no quibble there. However Pagan is capitalized....just like any other religious group.

#2 - No, not everyone feels that all Gods are one God with just a different name. That is quite an insult to a hard polytheist when you basically say, "Oh, you really worship my God...you just use a different name." That is not how they see it.

See, now, I just learned something I didn't know before.

Soraya wrote:#3 - Here is where you prove my poin and why I feel little good ever comes from religious discussion in a diverse group. You've just said "People can obviously tell by the title of the thread what the subject is, if it is something that you don't believe or don't like you don't have to read it."
Now, to me, and I may be reading this wrong because I am new here, that says, if you don't agree with the Christian view (because it is Christians that believe in the Bible) shut up and don't post.

I really do think you're reading this wrong. See, but after you've been around here a while, you'll know that we can and do have very civil, informative discussions about religion on BN, with many differing viewpoints offered. It doesn't mean "if you don't agree, shut up and don't post," at all. It just means if religion isn't something you care to discuss, you can choose to not participate in the thread. Differing opinions truly are expected and respected. If we do something like not capitalizing Pagan, it's usually out of ignorance, and it helps to be corrected. You'll see some people capitalize God because they believe in His deity, and others refer to god, because they have a different viewpoint. In those places where we have complete disagreement, we simply agree to disagree, and remain friends. It's all good.

Soraya wrote:I am sure that I will be considered a pariah after this....well...it was fun while it lasted.

Not at all. I'm interested in your viewpoint.

Posted: **March 28, 2006 8:28 am**

UAHparrothead wrote:At Vanderbilt, there are a wide range of beliefs and that is fine. You don't have to agree with mine and I don't have to agree with yours, but in order for this world to keep spinning, we must regain that ability to discuss sensitive matters in public and at the dinner table and to repect the opinion of others.

Very, very well said!!

Posted: **March 28, 2006 8:39 am**

I've never read the Bible so, as usual, I bring nothing to the table.

Posted: **March 28, 2006 8:54 am**

LIPH wrote:I've never read the Bible so, as usual, I bring nothing to the table.

Here you go...a site that reads the Bible to you

http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html

Posted: **March 28, 2006 8:58 am**

SharkOnLand wrote:
a1aara wrote:Is it true that the Vatican have 3 or 4 books from the bible locked away from the world? Why? What are they trying to supress? I have heard several different theories.
Those are the books that tell of Jesus' rebellious college years.

Duuuuude.... that whole "water in wine" thing... he roxxored at all his dorm parties.. ;D

Posted: **March 28, 2006 9:02 am**

East Texas Parrothead wrote:I love that we can discuss *God* things with Brad . . .

We studied the Bible prior to confirmation classes -- at least that's how it was in the 1960's -- in the Methodist Church. I was so fortunate to have a liberal minister who said, "This is the way for me, but you all have to find your own path."
He said the Bible was God's word given to man and that it had gone through many, many versions prior to it ever being written down and then even more versions in translation.

He introduced us to the Koran ... and the teachings of Buddha. He showed us 'other' instruction books to other religions and told us to trust our hearts.

The Bible is a guidebook for me. I take what I need from it. I've taken the same thing in two different ways . . . in two different times in my life.

That's the beauty of a good teacher. They are there when you need them.

sadly, it seems like the Methodists have taken a turn away from that enlightened view and gotten more dogmatic (tho not to the extreme other faiths have) in the past 30 years.

Posted: **March 28, 2006 9:03 am**

East Texas Parrothead wrote:
SMLCHNG wrote:
East Texas Parrothead wrote: I've *always* found something good in Brad's discussions. Maybe if you read the kind and gentle responses, you'd find something, too.
As have I. And I'm soooooo not 'religious' in any way whatsoever. I don't claim to be any type of follower to any religion. But Brad doesn't 'offend' me, he just looking to learn.
I'm a lapsed Methodist. Don't go to church. Don't cut my hair.

Amen. I just wish I had hair to cut.. ;D

Posted: **March 28, 2006 9:04 am**

ragtopW wrote:
East Texas Parrothead wrote:
SMLCHNG wrote:
markruble wrote: What good really comes out of this?
Brad being able to understand / learn more how other folks feel/think/interpret what the bible means/doesn't mean to them. PERIOD.
I've *always* found something good in Brad's discussions. Maybe if you read the kind and gentle responses, you'd find something, too.
Brad and I may not always see eye to eye.
But I have always known my opinon was respected..

until I get stupid..

Wayne.. are there many people on this board who can look you right in the eye?

Posted: **March 28, 2006 9:08 am**

LIPH wrote:I've never read the Bible so, as usual, I bring nothing to the table.

Aw Larry, you always make me laugh

Posted: **March 28, 2006 9:10 am**

ph4ever wrote:1. Like fruityparrothead I believe the Bible is an instruction book for life.

2. Like SGH I believe that the Bible has been translated so many times by men that there is room for the translations to be altered to fit/suit the translator's beliefs.

But I also then wonder about thing you're hearing more these days. Like lost Books of the Bible as well as Mary Magdeline being a disciple as well.

Brad what are your views on this?

I agree with you on 1 and 2, with an example that in great there are three words for love. Ranging from friendship to "I would lay down my life for you". Yet in the English translation they are all treated the same, and are all translated as love.

As far as Mary Magdeline. I think she was a disciple. From what I remember there were lots of disciples beyond the 12.

Posted: **March 28, 2006 9:13 am**

sy wrote:
LIPH wrote:I've never read the Bible so, as usual, I bring nothing to the table.
Aw Larry, you always make me laugh

Story of my life, women laughing.

Posted: **March 28, 2006 9:13 am**

I have to say that I see the Bible as a group of stories, a broad template for your life. I don't believe that each verse is to be taken literally, there are too many ways that the message could have been altered inadvertently during the copying process.

I also don't believe that someone else's belief works for anyone but them; and that trying to shove their interpretation of the Bible down my throat is just a bad way for their day to end.

My personal beliefs are something of a combination of a lot of things. "Basically, the messages boil down to this: 'try to live life as best you can according to the broad template; accept that you are not going to be perfect; and barring serious lack of contrition for the sins along the way; you move on to the next level".

Posted: **March 28, 2006 9:14 am**

Coming from different religious upbringing and beliefs, as well as having to go through catholic school for 12 years, I've never seen the Bible as anything other than a 'life guide' written by human beings. Regardless of what it was inspired by, it was written by humans, and therefore, is fallible.

I don't believe that it is the 'word of god' simply because there is no proof that God himself sat down and dictated those words to someone who transcribed them. The bible has changed wordage over the years, and there are different versions of it. It is an old guide meant to try and help and teach people.

and Soraya, please don't feel like you can't share your opinions. Occasionally you might come across someone who will become overzealous in expressing their own opinion, but really, I've never left an discussion feeling like it wasn't met overall with respect. And trust me, I understand that 'overzealous bible belters'. I live next door to one and regularly am met with their propaganda.

Posted: **March 28, 2006 9:18 am**

sy wrote:Coming from different religious upbringing and beliefs, as well as having to go through catholic school for 12 years, I've never seen the Bible as anything other than a 'life guide' written by human beings. Regardless of what it was inspired by, it was written by humans, and therefore, is fallible.

I don't believe that it is the 'word of god' simply because there is no proof that God himself sat down and dictated those words to someone who transcribed them. The bible has changed wordage over the years, and there are different versions of it. It is an old guide meant to try and help and teach people.

and Soraya, please don't feel like you can't share your opinions. Occasionally you might come across someone who will become overzealous in expressing their own opinion, but really, I've never left an discussion feeling like it wasn't met overall with respect. And trust me, I understand that 'overzealous bible belters'. I live next door to one and regularly am met with their propaganda.

I have one in the family. Everything done on Earth is for "the greater glory of God"; like an omnipotent, omniscient being really needs a lot of help in the glory department from an AmWay saleswoman from Seattle...

Posted: **March 28, 2006 9:20 am**

ph4ever wrote:1. Like fruityparrothead I believe the Bible is an instruction book for life.

2. Like SGH I believe that the Bible has been translated so many times by men that there is room for the translations to be altered to fit/suit the translator's beliefs.

But I also then wonder about thing you're hearing more these days. Like lost Books of the Bible as well as Mary Magdeline being a disciple as well.

Brad what are your views on this?

I agree with you on 1 and 2, with an example that in greek there are three words for love. Ranging from friendship to "I would lay down my life for you". Yet in the English translation they are all treated the same, and are all translated as love.

As far as Mary Magdeline. I think she was a disciple. From what I remember there were lots of disciples beyond the 12.

Posted: **March 28, 2006 9:20 am**

RinglingRingling wrote:
sy wrote: and Soraya, please don't feel like you can't share your opinions. Occasionally you might come across someone who will become overzealous in expressing their own opinion, but really, I've never left an discussion feeling like it wasn't met overall with respect. And trust me, I understand that 'overzealous bible belters'. I live next door to one and regularly am met with their propaganda.

I have one in the family. Everything done on Earth is for "the greater glory of God"; like an omnipotent, omniscient being really needs a lot of help in the glory department from an AmWay saleswoman from Seattle...

Nice.

I apparently moved into some sort of bermuda triangle of religion, so I regularly have people showing up at my door trying to 'save my soul'. I think my neighbor sends them.

Posted: **March 28, 2006 9:23 am**

I was brought up to believe that the Bible was the word of God. As I matured, I believe it is a book written over many years by many different authors inspired by a higher power some may call God.... others Prophets and yet others Teachers.

However..... something that always bothered me is there are hundreds of versions of the Bible. The King James Version, The Jewish Tora, The Catholic Bible and the list is never ending..... as are there numerous religions and many higher powers call God by their followers. My question is.... which one is right?

Why are Jews or Catholics or Islams or Baptists or Lutherans better than Methodists or Presbeterians? Every religion thinks they are "the chosen ones". So is there a God Team in heaven?

I believe that people mold religion to suit their needs. Not the other way around. You are a Baptist because your parents were or maybe you like the pastor or pick a reason.... but who is to say that you wouldnt like that of the Methodist church if you went... and then you become Methodist and marry a Jew and decide you like much of the Jewish teaching.... You change Bibles each time... do you also change Gods?

Just some of the questions that bother me so.......

Posted: **March 28, 2006 9:26 am**

sy wrote: Nice.

I apparently moved into some sort of bermuda triangle of religion, so I regularly have people showing up at my door trying to 'save my soul'. I think my neighbor sends them.

For some people the Bermuda Triangle IS a religion!

Cheers.

Posted: **March 28, 2006 9:26 am**

SharkOnLand wrote:
a1aara wrote:Is it true that the Vatican have 3 or 4 books from the bible locked away from the world? Why? What are they trying to supress? I have heard several different theories.
Those are the books that tell of Jesus' rebellious college years.

John Prine wrote a great song about it called "Jesus-The Missing Years"

ph4ever wrote:It seems to me as if no matter who you pray to - should you decide to pray - be it mother earth, father sun, Jah or God the ultimate supreme being is all the same, just known by different names.

"Jah" will be just fine, thanks.

I believe the bible to be word that was passed down which would make a lot of it allegory which brings to mind some of my favorite lyrics:

you want to trust religion
and you know it's allegory
but the people who are followers
have written their own story.

-R.E.M. "Hope"

That's not to say everything written in there is not true, it may just be slightly exaggerated in the same manner gossip is as it gets told and re-told. I also have to say that I find it a bit disconcerting how certain groups, when trying to make a case for whatever their cause may be, cite the bible as an example.

Having grown up in the South, I can add a bit to that perspective as well as I attended a "Christian" school for a number of years before my parents got us out of there because my Dad felt my brother and I were being "brainwashed" by religion. Hair could only be of a certain length and if you did something wrong, one of the "punishments" was being made to copy entire sections of the bible. I also see a lot of extreme examples of religion around here, mainly of the "fire and brimstone" variety.

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