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sunseeker wrote:IF the name calling, bickering and general slamming in this thread doesn't stop (on both sides) the thread may be locked again and I MAY do it...

the last few posts other then from mods have NOT been civil...

Merry Christmas all....I do wish each of you much peace and love in the new year...

now get back on topic....

Kudos Shannon, and mods...Merry Christmas to you also, or whatever you celebrate this time of year...

nothing personal should have been injected into the thread, in the beginning...



RagtopW, surely you do know that rhinos are poached simply for their tusks? (horn) they aren't feeding the starving populace, it's purely for black market resale.

I have nothing against legal hunting, you already know that, although I do abhor trophy hunting...they sometimes remove a rhinos horn when it becomes marketable size sinply to protect the animal..

have you ever seen a picture of a rhino with it's horn removed? It's pretty sad, indeed..

I wish the UN could/would do something, the UN has become so ineffective in some regions they don't even bother with it...

I suppose that there are too many armed conflicts going on in the world for the UN to address this situation..:dunno:

Moonie wrote:

sunseeker wrote:IF the name calling, bickering and general slamming in this thread doesn't stop (on both sides) the thread may be locked again and I MAY do it...

the last few posts other then from mods have NOT been civil...

Merry Christmas all....I do wish each of you much peace and love in the new year...

now get back on topic....

Kudos Shannon, and mods...Merry Christmas to you also, or whatever you celebrate this time of year...

nothing personal should have been injected into the thread, in the beginning...



RagtopW, surely you do know that rhinos are poached simply for their tusks? (horn) they aren't feeding the starving populace, it's purely for black market resale.

I have nothing against legal hunting, you already know that, although I do abhor trophy hunting...they sometimes remove a rhinos horn when it becomes marketable size sinply to protect the animal..

have you ever seen a picture of a rhino with it's horn removed? It's pretty sad, indeed..

I wish the UN could/would do something, the UN has become so ineffective in some regions they don't even bother with it...

I suppose that there are too many armed conflicts going on in the world for the UN to address this situation..:dunno:

I do know that Rhinos are poached.. But they are also taken by Permit..
for.. $$$$ and that money goes for anti poaching efforts..
in some areas Poaching brings the Death Penelty.
which is alright by me..

I was speaking to the statement that no animal has been almost lost
due to $$$ and the Buffalo and beaver were taken just for their hides..
and we almost lost them both..

and to be honest. I hunt Bear.. well..Kind of. I carry a bear tag
in case I run across one.
But IF I have already taken a Bear for meat ( as I take most animals for the meat)
But if someone offers me $$ for the Gall on a bear I have already taken
for meat.. I will sell the stuff to the silly idiot, I do not approve of taking them for just the Gall.. But at the same time If I get one and
can sell a part of it I won't use I have no Moral issue with that..

But by selling the gallbladder aren't you perpetuating the practice of supplying a product that doesn't do anything medicinally yet is in demand by the elite...so it still won't stop the poaching? Seems like a slippery slope to me.

As for the taking of rhinos by permit...I believe that is done in South Africa with the white rhinos...and most of that land is privately owned so people can hunt pretty freely. In theory the concept is okay, I'm just not sure how much benefit there is on public lands. I guess any money for the cause is better than none. But they've been trying to apply this to the black rhinos as well, which are critically endangered. The theory is to use permits to cull the old rhinos...but who's gonna be the judge of "old"? Are they gonna carry AARP cards on their horns? It seems to me there could be a lot of "accidental" killing of younger rhinos in that situation. What trophy hunter is going to want an old, decrepit rhino? It kind of reminds me of that Far Side where the bear goes up to a creek for a drink and the hunter shoots it, it lays down and dies, then he has it mounted in the classic upright attacking position.

Are they gonna carry AARP cards on their horns?

But by selling the gallbladder aren't you perpetuating the practice of supplying a product that doesn't do anything medicinally yet is in demand by the elite...so it still won't stop the poaching? Seems like a slippery slope to me.

The bear is hunted for its meat, the gall if tendered is a by product of the hunt. If someone approached him for the gall and he obliged the request with a kill only for a gall then yeah. If he says no, you'll have to wait for the next bear I take for meat then no. An ethical hunter if he/she opted for anything would be the latter.

I met and spoke with more then one hunter who tells the story of popping Baboons off rocks like ground squirrels in a pine forest. Its legal, no special permit required and there is an over abundance of Baboons. Certainly they did not travel all the way to Africa to pop Baboons, they were just killed while preppin for the real hunt. In my opinion and I think here its okay to judge another hunter. To kill something because you can p*** off the Karma Gods, its tempting perhaps a fate that might be better off letf untested. Have a good reason to kill something, food, protection, survival, something beyond just because we can.

bumper wrote:

Reality is the badest mutha on the block.

Inviting bad Kharma is probably the 2nd most badest mutha on the block...

Moonie wrote:Kudos Shannon, and mods...Merry Christmas to you also, or whatever you celebrate this time of year...

nothing personal should have been injected into the thread, in the beginning...

Interesting comment coming from you ...

Moonie wrote:sooo, exactly what part of that do you not understand, einstein?

Moonie wrote:why would it make me feel better to confirm that you don't know anything about the program? I knew that from the start!

Moonie wrote:No ringling ... It's never been to diffucult to follow your line of reasoning...

pure stupidity...

Moonie wrote:you remind me of a swarm of sand gnats...

Moonie wrote:even the village idiot can use a thesaurus

bumper wrote:I met and spoke with more then one hunter who tells the story of popping Baboons off rocks like ground squirrels in a pine forest. Its legal, no special permit required and there is an over abundance of Baboons. Certainly they did not travel all the way to Africa to pop Baboons, they were just killed while preppin for the real hunt. In my opinion and I think here its okay to judge another hunter. To kill something because you can p*** off the Karma Gods, its tempting perhaps a fate that might be better off letf untested. Have a good reason to kill something, food, protection, survival, something beyond just because we can.

I like what you say here, bumper...

For instance, I saved a cat from near death. A year later, she killed my son's gerbils in a brutal way just because she could, not from hunger, etc.
She disappeared last February, and I believe she got carried off by a hawk and suffered the same fate as the gerbils.... what goes around comes around.

carolinagirl wrote:

bumper wrote:I met and spoke with more then one hunter who tells the story of popping Baboons off rocks like ground squirrels in a pine forest. Its legal, no special permit required and there is an over abundance of Baboons. Certainly they did not travel all the way to Africa to pop Baboons, they were just killed while preppin for the real hunt. In my opinion and I think here its okay to judge another hunter. To kill something because you can p*** off the Karma Gods, its tempting perhaps a fate that might be better off letf untested. Have a good reason to kill something, food, protection, survival, something beyond just because we can.

I like what you say here, bumper...

For instance, I saved a cat from near death. A year later, she killed my son's gerbils in a brutal way just because she could, not from hunger, etc.
She disappeared last February, and I believe she got carried off by a hawk and suffered the same fate as the gerbils.... what goes around comes around.

It's the circle of liiiiiiiffffeeee

sorry, couldn't resist.

bumper wrote:But by selling the gallbladder aren't you perpetuating the practice of supplying a product that doesn't do anything medicinally yet is in demand by the elite...so it still won't stop the poaching? Seems like a slippery slope to me.

The bear is hunted for its meat, the gall if tendered is a by product of the hunt. If someone approached him for the gall and he obliged the request with a kill only for a gall then yeah. If he says no, you'll have to wait for the next bear I take for meat then no. An ethical hunter if he/she opted for anything would be the latter.

I understand where you're coming from, Todd, but selling the gallbladder from a legally hunted bear isn't going to do a thing to decrease the poaching and it's still feeding the supply line. I guess I see it like this: no matter how altruistic your intentions are, you would still be contributing to the problem, not the solution. Of course that is just my opinion, by no means does that mean I'm right.

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:

bumper wrote:But by selling the gallbladder aren't you perpetuating the practice of supplying a product that doesn't do anything medicinally yet is in demand by the elite...so it still won't stop the poaching? Seems like a slippery slope to me.

The bear is hunted for its meat, the gall if tendered is a by product of the hunt. If someone approached him for the gall and he obliged the request with a kill only for a gall then yeah. If he says no, you'll have to wait for the next bear I take for meat then no. An ethical hunter if he/she opted for anything would be the latter.

I understand where you're coming from, Todd, but selling the gallbladder from a legally hunted bear isn't going to do a thing to decrease the poaching and it's still feeding the supply line. I guess I see it like this: no matter how altruistic your intentions are, you would still be contributing to the problem, not the solution. Of course that is just my opinion, by no means does that mean I'm right.

Its using the whole animal...instead of throwing a part of it away, it goes to use...how is this contributing to a problem? If it were only the gall thats one thing, but if you kill a bear and are eating the meat and someone wants the gall...maybe I'm missing something...

Moonie wrote:Because there are those hunters that take bear just to sell the gall for profit.

Imagine that...

I'm pretty sure I said if they are using the whole bear...and not only the gall...so what am I missing?

longlinergirl wrote:

Moonie wrote:Because there are those hunters that take bear just to sell the gall for profit.

Imagine that...

I'm pretty sure I said if they are using the whole bear...and not only the gall...so what am I missing?

Because the gall in only used in the hocus pocus "make me a more virile man" medicine...which is 90% aspirin mixed with crushed up gallbladder. Same with Tiger penises, shark parts, rhino horns etc. Their only use is getting people to pay ridiculous amounts of money for a worthless "cure". So yeah, YOU may be using the whole bear...but the part you are selling is perpetuating the continued use of these products. Just because YOU used the rest of the bear doesn't make it any more right.....right?

longlinergirl wrote:

Moonie wrote:Because there are those hunters that take bear just to sell the gall for profit.

Imagine that...

I'm pretty sure I said if they are using the whole bear...and not only the gall...so what am I missing?

it was relative to the discussion between Wayne and BEG....


I don't know what you are missing. Are you missing something?

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:

longlinergirl wrote:

Moonie wrote:Because there are those hunters that take bear just to sell the gall for profit.

Imagine that...

I'm pretty sure I said if they are using the whole bear...and not only the gall...so what am I missing?

Because the gall in only used in the hocus pocus "make me a more virile man" medicine...which is 90% aspirin mixed with crushed up gallbladder. Same with Tiger penises, shark parts, rhino horns etc. Their only use is getting people to pay ridiculous amounts of money for a worthless "cure". So yeah, YOU may be using the whole bear...but the part you are selling is perpetuating the continued use of these products. Just because YOU used the rest of the bear doesn't make it any more right.....right?

We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose...

And Moonie...i thought you were speaking to me so forgive ME if I upset you

Why not let this rest?

LIPH wrote:

Moonie wrote:Kudos Shannon, and mods...Merry Christmas to you also, or whatever you celebrate this time of year...

nothing personal should have been injected into the thread, in the beginning...

Interesting comment coming from you ...

Moonie wrote:sooo, exactly what part of that do you not understand, einstein?

Moonie wrote:why would it make me feel better to confirm that you don't know anything about the program? I knew that from the start!

Moonie wrote:No ringling ... It's never been to diffucult to follow your line of reasoning...

pure stupidity...

Moonie wrote:you remind me of a swarm of sand gnats...

Moonie wrote:even the village idiot can use a thesaurus

If you're going to wade into the thick of this Larry. get your facts straight...I wasn't the one that started the personal comments...read back...