Jimmy, this time you are wrong!

[caly]

Manatees aren't cute and he's trying to save them.

yes they are(to me)....I love these guys!

[SchoolGirlHeart]

Why are we talking about recurring thread topics. We should be talking about the real problem...breast cancer.

If your mother and aunt had breast cancer and your friend died from it, would you still be laughing?

Oh, and then there was Volcano Lady..... (Someone else, please educate this, ah, person about the breast cancer thread.... I've already lost my temper....)

[The Lost Manatee]

SGH, I would try to however anyone who thinks that breast cancer is something to joke about is beyond help. Even if my sister had passed away this past October I would have to say that it is no laughing matter.

[Wino you know]

I don't think Jimmy is being a hypocrite.
For one thing, he's never made his passion for animals a secret-sure he likes his cheeseburgers and seafood.
And yes, he loves to go fly fishing (I don't know if I recall reading that he likes to hunt), and I think he's under the illusion (as most of us are) that cows, chickens, turkeys, etc. are put to death HUMANELY. I'm not saying they ARE, and, knowing me, the best way to probably get me to become a vegetarian is to force me to spend a day at a slaughterhouse. But the way the baby seals are clubbed to death is above and beyond barbaric, and shows man at his inhumane worst.
And, F.W.I.W., I'm NOT impressed (but, rather, appalled at the sight of ANYONE wearing seal skin, or any type of fur).

That's who I am-love me or leave me.

[Lightning Bolt]

sorry, Garry, but I think he IS being a hypocrite on this one.

I don't believe you can cherry-pick your righteous causes when it comes to
inhumane treatment in "harvesting" animals.
If you're going to go pro-animal, you go all the way... like, say, Paul McCartney.
I, personally, find him to be a PETA-whack job, but that's my opinion of his lifestyle choice, certainly not of his music or his Beatles music.

You don't land a nice sharp hook in another creature's throat and drag 'em
through the water, THEN tell me that other persons are out of line in their lawful methods of ending a different creature's life.
I certainly will say, none of it's pretty stuff, but neither is wringing a chicken's neck!
(btw, I have hunted and still like to fish our local lakes, all lawfully).

I'm more bent by how we justify our presence in Iraq, when there's a HUMAN genocide STILL being conducted in Darfur.
Try to tell me how cute animals deserve more of our attention than helpless peoples... men, women, and children being exterminated
by a government's willful edict.

Tell me that animals are more important, and you'll have said plenty...

[Indiana Jolly Mon]

sorry, Garry, but I think he IS being a hypocrite on this one.

I don't believe you can cherry-pick your righteous causes when it comes to
inhumane treatment in "harvesting" animals.
If you're going to go pro-animal, you go all the way... like, say, Paul McCartney.
I, personally, find him to be a PETA-whack job, but that's my opinion of his lifestyle choice, certainly not of his music or his Beatles music.

You don't land a nice sharp hook in another creature's throat and drag 'em
through the water, THEN tell me that other persons are out of line in their lawful methods of ending a different creature's life.
I certainly will say, none of it's pretty stuff, but neither is wringing a chicken's neck!
(btw, I have hunted and still like to fish our local lakes, all lawfully).

I'm more bent by how we justify our presence in Iraq, when there's a HUMAN genocide STILL being conducted in Darfur.
Try to tell me how cute animals deserve more of our attention than helpless peoples... men, women, and children being exterminated
by a government's willful edict.

Tell me that animals are more important, and you'll have said plenty...

Not picking on you Bolt, but to say that since humans are more important than animals so we should just ignore this is absurd. Why cant we focus on Darfur AND seal clubbing? Also to say that JB or any others have to be 100% one way or the other is also absurd. Hypocrisy is one thing, but viewing different situations in different ways is not a bad thing. I for one see the clubbing of seals for fur different than raising cattle for beef, but that is me. Maybe I am wrong, maybe not. But I dont know why the hell the original poster of this thinks JB is "wrong" for his views or had to check with his fans first.
Opinions are not right or wrong per se, it is a shame that a lot of people think they are.[/b]

[Quiet and Shy]

Try to tell me how cute animals deserve more of our attention than helpless peoples...

Not picking on you Bolt, but to say that since humans are more important than animals so we should just ignore this is absurd. Why cant we focus on Darfur AND seal clubbing?

IJM, Bolt hasn't said the animals should be "ignored".

A couple clarifications, the seals being hunted are adults, not babies or "pups" (which adds to the confusion and drama around this). Also, I don't know if Jimmy still hunts, but the Scrapbook, for example, talks of Jimmy enjoying quail hunting. I've also read where he has owned "hunting" land.

On slaughter plants...been there, done that (I used to work in the animal health industry). Although livestock animals are killed as "humanely" as possible, it's something most people don't see (unlike the seal hunt videos) and eating beef, pork, chicken, etc. is generally accepted by our society.

Seal hunting, as a long term tradition to support a local economy, however, is not part of our culture, so it's much easier to judge this as being "wrong". Personally, I can't judge the relative "humaneness" of seal hunting methods, and I don't feel it's my place to tell someone they need to discontinue their livelihood because it's not acceptable in my culture (as long as it's not an endangered species). And, if there weren't money in harvesting the pelts (consumer demand), the hunting would decline.

So Garry, do you feel the same about leather (shoes, jacket, wallet, etc.) as you do about pelts and furs?

And Jimmy's boycott...the press release contained factual errors and I just find it to be inconsistent given his fishing, hunting, general openness to other cultures, Margaritaville Seafood business, etc. It's sloppier than what I'm accustomed to seeing from him.

[Wino you know]

sorry, Garry, but I think he IS being a hypocrite on this one.

I don't believe you can cherry-pick your righteous causes when it comes to
inhumane treatment in "harvesting" animals.
If you're going to go pro-animal, you go all the way... like, say, Paul McCartney.
I, personally, find him to be a PETA-whack job, but that's my opinion of his lifestyle choice, certainly not of his music or his Beatles music.

You don't land a nice sharp hook in another creature's throat and drag 'em
through the water, THEN tell me that other persons are out of line in their lawful methods of ending a different creature's life.
I certainly will say, none of it's pretty stuff, but neither is wringing a chicken's neck!
(btw, I have hunted and still like to fish our local lakes, all lawfully).

I'm more bent by how we justify our presence in Iraq, when there's a HUMAN genocide STILL being conducted in Darfur.
Try to tell me how cute animals deserve more of our attention than helpless peoples... men, women, and children being exterminated
by a government's willful edict.

Tell me that animals are more important, and you'll have said plenty...

I would never want to wring a chicken's neck, and yes, I do still eat steaks, cheeseburgers, etc., and to be honest, Brad, I AM having some personal issues with it, but I'm trying to deal with it. If I come off as a hypocrite, I have no choice but to swallow that pill.
Not too many years ago I used to think ALL P.E.T.A. people were nut jobs. Since I've gotten closer to animals over the last few years, had chances to study them, be with them, and understand their plight, I've become (I think) much more aware. I don't know if it's old age setting in or what, all I know is I do have lots of mixed and confused feelings that I'm trying to deal with.

And yes, to me, MOST animals are more important than SOME people.
I'm not talking about young helpless children, but, rather, the majority or people who have the ability and opportunity to care for themselves. Animals DON'T. It's up to us, and as long as I'm alive, I intend to do what I have to do to give them a life of dignity with compassion.

[Wino you know]

So Garry, do you feel the same about leather (shoes, jacket, wallet, etc.) as you do about pelts and furs?

NO, NO, NO.
If I had my way, I'd own no shoes-only flip flops and I'd have no need for a jacket.
And what the hell is a wallet? Is it that thing my wife uses to carry my money?

I know I sound quite the hypocrite on this issue, and if I worked in a slaughterhouse, I have no doubt I'd turn vegetarian in an instant.
I've never been in one (a slaughterhouse), and hope I never am.
People need shoes (those of us that are dumb enough to live north of latitude 20, anyway). I don't know of anyone that NEEDS fur. Except the animals it's on.

[backbeat]

A couple clarifications, the seals being hunted are adults, not babies or "pups"

Canada's commercial seal hunt is the largest, and most brutal, slaughter of marine mammals on earth.
In 2006 the Canadian government allowed fishermen to club and shoot at least 354,344 seals in the North Atlantic—almost all of them babies as young as 12 days. At the time of slaughter, many had not yet eaten their first solid meal or taken their first swim. They literally had no escape from the "hunters."
Once again, The HSUS has documented the commercial seal hunt firsthand. What we have seen is shocking: conscious baby seals stabbed with boathooks and dragged across the ice, wounded seal pups left to choke on their own blood for more than an hour, and conscious seals sliced open and skinned as they struggled. An independent veterinary study conducted in 2001 found much of the same; it concluded that 42% of the seals examined had probably been skinned alive while conscious.

It's not primarily adults. "Almost all" pups. The meat is not edible, so the point is to get the pelt off with as few holes in it as possible. Each hole knocks $4 off the price of the pelt. One bullet, for example, may not kill, but will make it possible to get the pelt from the living pup without losing another four bucks. All of this information is from Humane Society United States.

[LIPH]

A couple clarifications, the seals being hunted are adults, not babies or "pups"

Canada's commercial seal hunt is the largest, and most brutal, slaughter of marine mammals on earth.
In 2006 the Canadian government allowed fishermen to club and shoot at least 354,344 seals in the North Atlantic—almost all of them babies as young as 12 days. At the time of slaughter, many had not yet eaten their first solid meal or taken their first swim. They literally had no escape from the "hunters."
Once again, The HSUS has documented the commercial seal hunt firsthand.

If what HSUS says is true, I'm assuming they have film or video to support their allegations and have turned copies of it over to the Canadian government so the hunters can be prosecuted because "The hunt for whitecoats (harp seal pups) and bluebacks (hooded seal pups) has not been permitted since 1987."
That's from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans of Canada website.

[trojan_sixtyone]

Didn't we already beat this topic to death when it was first announced a few weeks ago?

Sure did, and the bottom line is still the same now as it was then:

Whether you agree with it or not, Jimmy has the right to any opinion he wants and if this is one of his, so what. If it really bothers you so much, don't buy any more CDs, concert tickets, t-shirts, books, food, etc. Otherwise, acknowledge the man has a right to do what he wants, just like you and I, and just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's "wrong."

In America we seem to forget that the Bill of Rights protects every individual's right to free speech, but NOT the right for everyone to be protected from being offended. Sorry if you are offended by Jimmy's actions and stance on it, but it's his call.

[Lightning Bolt]

Didn't we already beat this topic to death when it was first announced a few weeks ago?

sorry... that pun is just too damn funny right now at Happy Hour

In America we seem to forget that the Bill of Rights protects every individual's right to free speech, but NOT the right for everyone to be protected from being offended. Sorry if you are offended by Jimmy's actions and stance on it, but it's his call.

hear, hear
wT61s

[Quiet and Shy]

Didn't we already beat this topic to death when it was first announced a few weeks ago?

Sure did, and the bottom line is still the same now as it was then:

Whether you agree with it or not, Jimmy has the right to any opinion he wants and if this is one of his, so what. If it really bothers you so much, don't buy any more CDs, concert tickets, t-shirts, books, food, etc. Otherwise, acknowledge the man has a right to do what he wants, just like you and I, and just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's "wrong."

In America we seem to forget that the Bill of Rights protects every individual's right to free speech, but NOT the right for everyone to be protected from being offended. Sorry if you are offended by Jimmy's actions and stance on it, but it's his call.

I fully agree that Jimmy has every right to his opinion and actions (as long as they're legal). In this case, as he has chosen to publicize and take this action as a public figure/celebrity, I don't see any problem with commenting on this (whether clarifying the facts, agreeing or respectfully disagreeing) on a Buffett-related site.

If discussion isn't allowed then why does this forum exist?

[Quiet and Shy]

So Garry, do you feel the same about leather (shoes, jacket, wallet, etc.) as you do about pelts and furs?

NO, NO, NO.
If I had my way, I'd own no shoes-only flip flops and I'd have no need for a jacket.
And what the hell is a wallet? Is it that thing my wife uses to carry my money?

I know I sound quite the hypocrite on this issue, and if I worked in a slaughterhouse, I have no doubt I'd turn vegetarian in an instant.
I've never been in one (a slaughterhouse), and hope I never am.
People need shoes (those of us that are dumb enough to live north of latitude 20, anyway). I don't know of anyone that NEEDS fur. Except the animals it's on.

No one said this stuff was easy....

[trojan_sixtyone]

Didn't we already beat this topic to death when it was first announced a few weeks ago?

Sure did, and the bottom line is still the same now as it was then:

Whether you agree with it or not, Jimmy has the right to any opinion he wants and if this is one of his, so what. If it really bothers you so much, don't buy any more CDs, concert tickets, t-shirts, books, food, etc. Otherwise, acknowledge the man has a right to do what he wants, just like you and I, and just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's "wrong."

In America we seem to forget that the Bill of Rights protects every individual's right to free speech, but NOT the right for everyone to be protected from being offended. Sorry if you are offended by Jimmy's actions and stance on it, but it's his call.

I fully agree that Jimmy has every right to his opinion and actions (as long as they're legal). In this case, as he has chosen to publicize and take this action as a public figure/celebrity, I don't see any problem with commenting on this (whether clarifying the facts, agreeing or respectfully disagreeing) on a Buffett-related site.

If discussion isn't allowed then why does this forum exist?

My point is how long are we going to beat this horse to death? Furthermore, we have to learn to draw the line between discussion and being upset about getting offended. The two things are different, which is the point I was making. I'm all for discussion, but I get sick of listening to mumbling about differences of beliefs and calling it "right" and "wrong".

[JustDucky]

I can't eat cheeseburgers because I can't stand the idea of killing cheese.

[JustDucky]

Are you sure the smiley face after the person saying we should be talking about breast cancer was actually a joke? I took it more as a head's up kind of thing. Maybe I'm drunk.

[SchoolGirlHeart]

Are you sure the smiley face after the person saying we should be talking about breast cancer was actually a joke? I took it more as a head's up kind of thing. Maybe I'm drunk.

a head's up about what? a long thread? there's a reason that thread is long.....

[Bwana Paul]

The HSUS is simply not credible. Their interest is in making money. It was not always this way, but it certainly is today.

People need to realize who they are sending their money to. I come from an agrarian family, and I miss having my own fresh eggs from my own hens...all the good things that go with it. It's a better life.

I'm not trying to be insulting to anyone, but I truly believe the HSUS people are crooked, dishonest, selfish, misleading and only out to make money. I know so.

Many year ago, I compiled a book which was distributed by several rural advocate groups. It was all about what kind of people the HSUS are. I made the mistake of putting my name on it.

The results? A mess. They were calling my home, threatening me, they sent me anonymous letters trying to intimidate me.

I ended up in Washington DC and got to meet Wayne Pacelle. Here is a guy who lies whenever his mouth is open and words were coming out. I had done my research and found out all of his true agenda, and of course he denied having said the things he was on video tape saying.

Wayne doesn't believe we should be able to own pets. Yes, I said pets. The President of H$U$ is against all animal ownership. His goal is to one day have pet ownership looked at as slavery.

I don't think animals should be mistreated... However, a man who sings about Cheeseburgers in Paradise, hunts for quail, goes fishing, and eats animal flesh might want to reconsider getting into bed with HSUS.

Just remember, the Humane Society of the United States does not operate a single animal shelter. Most people who give them money are not aware of that. And the HSUS would like to keep it that way.

“[T]he Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) is not affiliated with, nor is it a parent organization for, local humane societies, animal shelters, or animal care and control agencies … The HSUS does not operate or have direct control over any animal shelter.”
— From a 2001 disclaimer issued by the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS)

“The life of an ant and that of my child should be granted equal consideration.”
— HSUS senior scholar Michael W. Fox

“The Humane Society should be worried about protecting animals from cruelty. It’s not doing that. The place is all about power and money.”
— HSUS consultant and former HSUS Chief Investigator Robert Baker, in U.S. News & World Report

“I’m not an admirer of HSUS. They’ve always been primarily a direct-mail operation, and what’s known in animal rights circles as a credit-grabber.”
— HSUS co-founder Cleveland Amory

“My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture.”
— HSUS grassroots coordinator John “J.P.” Goodwin

“We’ve started picketing outside the homes of the [department store] executives … Those executives do not deserve a break. They do not deserve to go home and rest.”
— J.P. Goodwin of HSUS describing his anti-fur strategy

“HSUS really needs to be called to task for its triple sided hypocrisy. When HSUS addresses scientists they say they support animal research as necessary. When HSUS addresses the public they say it is evil but sometimes necessary. When HSUS addresses its members and other animal rights groups, they say it is evil and unnecessary.”
— Dr. Pat Cleveland of the University of California, San Diego

“If we could shut down all forms of hunting in a moment, we would.”
— Wayne Pacelle, Pres. of HSUS

“Our goal is to get sport hunting in the same category as cock fighting and dog fighting.”
— Bozeman (MT) Daily Chronicle

“We are going to use the ballot box and the democratic process to stop all hunting in the United States ... We will take it species by species until all hunting is stopped in California. Then we will take it state by state.”
— Wayne Pacelle

“We have no ethical obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through selective breeding ...One generation and out. We have no problems with the extinction of domestic animals. They are creations of human selective breeding.”
— Animal People News

“We would be foolish and silly not to unite with people in the public health sector, the environmental community, [and] unions, to try to challenge corporate agriculture.”
— “Animal Rights 2002” convention