CaptainP wrote:I love having people here who really know baseball. I went WAY too long without having anyone to chat with. Now I have a guy at work (Todd), and the BN team. Even if Jon is wrong all the time.
I will go along with this too . . .
and I will make another bold prediction . . . the Brewers will not win as many games in 2008 as they did in 2007; unless they make a big move before April.
As much as I like Braun his numbers will not be, on percentage, in 162 games in 2008 as productive as he was in 2007 . . . other than errors . . . and the bull pen, in its current state, is sh it.
They're revamping the bullpen. Bringing in a lot of veterans to try out. Not really tied to any of them. David Riske, Guillermo Mota. Relief pitchers are a strange animal. Can have a great year after a bad one. That's what Doug Melvin is looking for.
They did turn down a chance to trade for Chad Cordero. Didn't want to give up Rickie Weeks.
Comment?
Mota sucks. Riske is nothing.
Fransisco Cordero, it semmed and if I am wrong then I am wrong, seemed to win many close games for the Brewers . . . an amazing year and he should have been resigned. They will not win the close game next year without an ace type closer.
It seems that the Brewers have the same basic lineup with a worse bull pen . . . although some of those young pitchers like Gallardo could step up and make up the difference. Either way I think the Brewers will not be in contention for the post season as late as they were in 2007.
the hit and run is as good as any religion around this time of year . . .
And to be fair . . . I don't think that Mike Timlin OR Hidei Okajima will be much for the Red Sox . . . Timlin is just obviously old . . . and Okajima played way over his head and will eventually get hit; hard.
Paps will be the best closer in MLB.
but his supporting staff will not be as strong.
the hit and run is as good as any religion around this time of year . . .
CaptainP wrote:I love having people here who really know baseball. I went WAY too long without having anyone to chat with. Now I have a guy at work (Todd), and the BN team. Even if Jon is wrong all the time.
I will go along with this too . . .
and I will make another bold prediction . . . the Brewers will not win as many games in 2008 as they did in 2007; unless they make a big move before April.
As much as I like Braun his numbers will not be, on percentage, in 162 games in 2008 as productive as he was in 2007 . . . other than errors . . . and the bull pen, in its current state, is sh it.
They're revamping the bullpen. Bringing in a lot of veterans to try out. Not really tied to any of them. David Riske, Guillermo Mota. Relief pitchers are a strange animal. Can have a great year after a bad one. That's what Doug Melvin is looking for.
They did turn down a chance to trade for Chad Cordero. Didn't want to give up Rickie Weeks.
Comment?
Mota sucks. Riske is nothing.
Fransisco Cordero, it semmed and if I am wrong then I am wrong, seemed to win many close games for the Brewers . . . an amazing year and he should have been resigned. They will not win the close game next year without an ace type closer.
It seems that the Brewers have the same basic lineup with a worse bull pen . . . although some of those young pitchers like Gallardo could step up and make up the difference. Either way I think the Brewers will not be in contention for the post season as late as they were in 2007.
Yovani Gallardo, Manny Parra, Carlos Villanueva, Zach Jackson. They do have a lot of good young arms.
With Riske and Mota, I don't expect much. But there is a history of veteran relievers making comebacks after a couple down years. With a good Pitching Coach like Mike Maddux....we'll see.
Last edited by CaptainP on December 5, 2007 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
drunkpirate66 wrote:
I will go along with this too . . .
and I will make another bold prediction . . . the Brewers will not win as many games in 2008 as they did in 2007; unless they make a big move before April.
As much as I like Braun his numbers will not be, on percentage, in 162 games in 2008 as productive as he was in 2007 . . . other than errors . . . and the bull pen, in its current state, is sh it.
They're revamping the bullpen. Bringing in a lot of veterans to try out. Not really tied to any of them. David Riske, Guillermo Mota. Relief pitchers are a strange animal. Can have a great year after a bad one. That's what Doug Melvin is looking for.
They did turn down a chance to trade for Chad Cordero. Didn't want to give up Rickie Weeks.
Comment?
Mota sucks. Riske is nothing.
Fransisco Cordero, it semmed and if I am wrong then I am wrong, seemed to win many close games for the Brewers . . . an amazing year and he should have been resigned. They will not win the close game next year without an ace type closer.
It seems that the Brewers have the same basic lineup with a worse bull pen . . . although some of those young pitchers like Gallardo could step up and make up the difference. Either way I think the Brewers will not be in contention for the post season as late as they were in 2007.
Yovani Gallardo, Manny Parra, Carlos Villanueva, Zach Jackson. They do have a lot of good young arms.
With Riske and Mota, I don't expect much. But there is a history of veteran relievers making comebacks after a couple down years. With a good Pitching Coach like Mike Maddux....we'll see.
although all the arms you listed are good . . . I think Parra is the best of the lot. AND, he should be considered for the closer's job like the Sox did years back with Paps.
the hit and run is as good as any religion around this time of year . . .
CaptainP wrote:They're revamping the bullpen. Bringing in a lot of veterans to try out. Not really tied to any of them. David Riske, Guillermo Mota. Relief pitchers are a strange animal. Can have a great year after a bad one. That's what Doug Melvin is looking for.
They did turn down a chance to trade for Chad Cordero. Didn't want to give up Rickie Weeks.
Comment?
Mota sucks. Riske is nothing.
Fransisco Cordero, it semmed and if I am wrong then I am wrong, seemed to win many close games for the Brewers . . . an amazing year and he should have been resigned. They will not win the close game next year without an ace type closer.
It seems that the Brewers have the same basic lineup with a worse bull pen . . . although some of those young pitchers like Gallardo could step up and make up the difference. Either way I think the Brewers will not be in contention for the post season as late as they were in 2007.
Yovani Gallardo, Manny Parra, Carlos Villanueva, Zach Jackson. They do have a lot of good young arms.
With Riske and Mota, I don't expect much. But there is a history of veteran relievers making comebacks after a couple down years. With a good Pitching Coach like Mike Maddux....we'll see.
although all the arms you listed are good . . . I think Parra is the best of the lot. AND, he should be considered for the closer's job like the Sox did years back with Paps.
I agree. I think they want him to start, but I'd love to see him close. I still like Gallardo better, but Parra is going to be a stud. Soon.
As for Coco Cordero...he and his agent never gave the Brewers a chance to re-sign him. According to Doug Melvin, the Brewers made a good offer ($40 million, 4 years). After not hearing a word for 9 days, Melvin called the agent, who said, "We have an offer from Cincinnati, and we're going to take it. Don't bother to counter-offer, a couple million won't make a difference." That was it. Never had a chance.
CaptainP wrote:With Riske and Mota, I don't expect much. But there is a history of veteran relievers making comebacks after a couple down years. With a good Pitching Coach like Mike Maddux....we'll see.
Mota was great for 6 weeks after the Mets got him from Cleveland in '06. After he tested positive for whatever he was using, not so much. In '07 the only thing he had on the ball was his hand.
CaptainP wrote:As for Coco Cordero...he and his agent never gave the Brewers a chance to re-sign him. According to Doug Melvin, the Brewers made a good offer ($40 million, 4 years). After not hearing a word for 9 days, Melvin called the agent, who said, "We have an offer from Cincinnati, and we're going to take it. Don't bother to counter-offer, a couple million won't make a difference." That was it. Never had a chance.
there are so many behind closed doors conversations that we as fans just don't know about. I am sure there were issues that just couldn't be worked out.
the hit and run is as good as any religion around this time of year . . .
jonesbeach10 wrote:I'm not gonna argue with you about Mussina, because he's couldn't beat a good team last year and probably wins 12 games max-I'm not counting on the keg. I still think he's the #4 or 5 starter though over Karstens. As for Hughes and Kennedy, hearing about them coming up through the minors, I guess I'm a lot higher on them than you are, and yes I understand neither has made it through an entire big league season. But then again neither has Lester or Bucholtz (sp?) assuming they don't get traded. I think we're both homers who love our team's pitching prospects
PS. I wasn't sure about Bedard either, but I heard about him also going to the Blue Jays, so I guess anything's possible.
I agree about Lester and Buchholtz being big "ifs" as rookies in the rotation. That's why Boston kept Schilling and Wakefield around for experience and to spread out the starts. I just don't have the high expectations for wins and effectiveness that you have for the coming season for these players. Their best years are in the future. If NY does stand pat and starts these youngsters I hope the Yankee faithful can understand that, while this year may not great, the future looks bright.
That being said, if Boston gets Santana their rotation becomes very strong for the next 5-6 years (assuming good health) and could help produce a WS run similar to NY in 1996-2000. If so, Lester/Buchholtz become footnotes in Red Sox history.
Grand Exalted Bubba of the Order of the Sleepless Knights
Right now I bet Cleveland is sitting back enjoying the moves the Tigers are making . . .
Cleveland has two of the best young pitchers in the American Leauge. Young all star postition players in Sizemore and Asdrubal . . . the best young catcher in the American League in Martinez (yes, better than Mauer) and without selling their future they just bolstered their bullpen with their Japenese connection . . .
Detroit has no future . . . now . . .
they bettter win the AL Central next year . . . they dumped so much to the Yankees for Sheffield and that didn't work out . . . now they are dumping for proven AL failures in Renteria and sh it pitching . . . and some fat power guy that people from Milwaukee seem to like.
I just can't understand what they are doing out there.
the hit and run is as good as any religion around this time of year . . .
jonesbeach10 wrote:
I'm not gonna argue with you about Mussina, because he's couldn't beat a good team last year and probably wins 12 games max-I'm not counting on the keg. I still think he's the #4 or 5 starter though over Karstens. As for Hughes and Kennedy, hearing about them coming up through the minors, I guess I'm a lot higher on them than you are, and yes I understand neither has made it through an entire big league season. But then again neither has Lester or Bucholtz (sp?) assuming they don't get traded. I think we're both homers who love our team's pitching prospects
PS. I wasn't sure about Bedard either, but I heard about him also going to the Blue Jays, so I guess anything's possible.
Think back to the Mets when they had Wilson...Pulsipher(sp) and Issinghauser(sp)!!They were suppose to be the next best thing in baseball...and the answer to the Mets pitching for years to come ...where did they end up!!
TommyBahama wrote:jonesbeach10 wrote:
I'm not gonna argue with you about Mussina, because he's couldn't beat a good team last year and probably wins 12 games max-I'm not counting on the keg. I still think he's the #4 or 5 starter though over Karstens. As for Hughes and Kennedy, hearing about them coming up through the minors, I guess I'm a lot higher on them than you are, and yes I understand neither has made it through an entire big league season. But then again neither has Lester or Bucholtz (sp?) assuming they don't get traded. I think we're both homers who love our team's pitching prospects
PS. I wasn't sure about Bedard either, but I heard about him also going to the Blue Jays, so I guess anything's possible.
Think back to the Mets when they had Wilson...Pulsipher(sp) and Issinghauser(sp)!!They were suppose to be the next best thing in baseball...and the answer to the Mets pitching for years to come ...where did they end up!!
Ok fine, but the same is true for the Sox young pitching prospects too.
Sometimes more than others,
we see who and what and where we are,
I'm just a one man band,
With my feet in the sand,
Tonight I just need my guitar
TommyBahama wrote:jonesbeach10 wrote:
I'm not gonna argue with you about Mussina, because he's couldn't beat a good team last year and probably wins 12 games max-I'm not counting on the keg. I still think he's the #4 or 5 starter though over Karstens. As for Hughes and Kennedy, hearing about them coming up through the minors, I guess I'm a lot higher on them than you are, and yes I understand neither has made it through an entire big league season. But then again neither has Lester or Bucholtz (sp?) assuming they don't get traded. I think we're both homers who love our team's pitching prospects
PS. I wasn't sure about Bedard either, but I heard about him also going to the Blue Jays, so I guess anything's possible.
Think back to the Mets when they had Wilson...Pulsipher(sp) and Issinghauser(sp)!!They were suppose to be the next best thing in baseball...and the answer to the Mets pitching for years to come ...where did they end up!!
Ok fine, but the same is true for the Sox young pitching prospects too.
drunkpirate66 wrote:Right now I bet Cleveland is sitting back enjoying the moves the Tigers are making . . .
Cleveland has two of the best young pitchers in the American Leauge. Young all star postition players in Sizemore and Asdrubal . . . the best young catcher in the American League in Martinez (yes, better than Mauer) and without selling their future they just bolstered their bullpen with their Japenese connection . . .
Detroit has no future . . . now . . .
they bettter win the AL Central next year . . . they dumped so much to the Yankees for Sheffield and that didn't work out . . . now they are dumping for proven AL failures in Renteria and sh it pitching . . . and some fat power guy that people from Milwaukee seem to like.
I just can't understand what they are doing out there.
Detroit has no future? Willis is 25, Cabrera is 24 (younger than Sizemore). Not like those guys are exactly in rocking chairs. Bottom line, they traded a bunch of young prospects for 2 proven players. The Sheffield worked out quite well, the Tigers swoon last season began when Sheffield was injured. The trade for Cabrera is to protect against that happening again.
Not sure about his minor league career, but Asdrubal has never been a major-league all star.
drunkpirate66 wrote:Right now I bet Cleveland is sitting back enjoying the moves the Tigers are making . . .
Cleveland has two of the best young pitchers in the American Leauge. Young all star postition players in Sizemore and Asdrubal . . . the best young catcher in the American League in Martinez (yes, better than Mauer) and without selling their future they just bolstered their bullpen with their Japenese connection . . .
Detroit has no future . . . now . . .
they bettter win the AL Central next year . . . they dumped so much to the Yankees for Sheffield and that didn't work out . . . now they are dumping for proven AL failures in Renteria and sh it pitching . . . and some fat power guy that people from Milwaukee seem to like.
I just can't understand what they are doing out there.
Detroit has no future? Willis is 25, Cabrera is 24 (younger than Sizemore). Not like those guys are exactly in rocking chairs. Bottom line, they traded a bunch of young prospects for 2 proven players. The Sheffield worked out quite well, the Tigers swoon last season began when Sheffield was injured. The trade for Cabrera is to protect against that happening again.
Not sure about his minor league career, but Asdrubal has never been a major-league all star.
Jair Jurrens, Andrew Miller . . . and they end up with Dontrelle Willis.
That means their pitching got much worse.
Gotta have the pitching.
Not to mention what they gave the Yankees for Sheffield.
That is alot of young awesome pitching. Their staff on paper right now has a lot of 4.00+ ERA 's on it.
The Yankees scored a lot of runs last year . . . as an example. Didn't get them very far, did it?
the hit and run is as good as any religion around this time of year . . .
drunkpirate66 wrote:18 million a year for Andrew Jones!!!!
Well . . . the Dodgers were a bad hitting team . . . now they are the worst hitting team . . .
18 million for Jones should translate into 54 million a YEAR for Johan Santana if we were to compare their value . . .
so funny.
so bad for the Dodgers . . .
WTF!
People in MLB have gotten pretty stupid this off season.
And Scott Boras takes another hit, he claimed that there were several 4 year offers for Jones but he was looking for a 5 year deal, then he signs a 2 year deal.
- - “If it doesn't work out there will never be any doubt that the pleasure was worth all the pain.”
