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BottleofRum wrote:Miguel Tejada traded to Houston for Luke Scott, pitchers Matt Albers, Troy Patton and Dennis Sarfate, and third baseman Michael Costanzo.

bad move by the Astros . . . no reason for this . . . other than to really hurt them in the long run.

drunkpirate66 wrote:

BottleofRum wrote:Miguel Tejada traded to Houston for Luke Scott, pitchers Matt Albers, Troy Patton and Dennis Sarfate, and third baseman Michael Costanzo.

bad move by the Astros . . . no reason for this . . . other than to really hurt them in the long run.

Plus, there is a good chance Tejadas's name is on the Mitchell report.

LIPH wrote:

ConchRepublican wrote:I actually think the Mets pitching looks fairly good right now.

I think they'll be lucky to get 20-25 starts from Martinez. Maine's season was like Jekyll & Hyde, he was a different pitcher (read: much worse) in the second half. Perez is too inconsistent. Hernandez is probably as old as I am. At times Heilman looks like he doesn't want to be in NY and he still wants to be a starter, which he'll never be as long as the Mets keep him. They're a 3rd place team right now.

I think 25 or more for Pedro, but it is questionable.

As for Maine, last year was the first year he pitched that many innings. I expect a big leap forward as he now understands the rigors of a full season.

OP is a young lefty, a beast notorious for taking a while to harness their ability. He was inconsistant and still won 15 games. I think he has ace potential and could be one in 2 or 3 years.

Heilman . . . I agree. He's a top reliever with 2 pitches who wants to start. I'd try it in a pinch, but I'd prefer to move him while he has some value and before we have to resign him.

El Duque I'd love to move to the pen. He was a very good starter 4 out of every 5 starts and would be great in a 6 man rotation. I figure from the pen he'd get that spot "Pedro vacation day" start and could be a great long man.

ConchRepublican wrote:

LIPH wrote:

ConchRepublican wrote:I actually think the Mets pitching looks fairly good right now.

I think they'll be lucky to get 20-25 starts from Martinez. Maine's season was like Jekyll & Hyde, he was a different pitcher (read: much worse) in the second half. Perez is too inconsistent. Hernandez is probably as old as I am. At times Heilman looks like he doesn't want to be in NY and he still wants to be a starter, which he'll never be as long as the Mets keep him. They're a 3rd place team right now.

I think 25 or more for Pedro, but it is questionable.

As for Maine, last year was the first year he pitched that many innings. I expect a big leap forward as he now understands the rigors of a full season.

OP is a young lefty, a beast notorious for taking a while to harness their ability. He was inconsistant and still won 15 games. I think he has ace potential and could be one in 2 or 3 years.

Heilman . . . I agree. He's a top reliever with 2 pitches who wants to start. I'd try it in a pinch, but I'd prefer to move him while he has some value and before we have to resign him.

El Duque I'd love to move to the pen. He was a very good starter 4 out of every 5 starts and would be great in a 6 man rotation. I figure from the pen he'd get that spot "Pedro vacation day" start and could be a great long man.

I will call it right now . . . barring injury or some major change: 2008 NL Cy Young is Pedro Martinez.

Maybe Comeback Player of the Year but Cy Young? No chance.

LIPH wrote:Maybe Comeback Player of the Year but Cy Young? No chance.

why?

of course he could . . .

The Cubs non-tendered Mark Prior. I wonder if it would be worth it to sign him to an incentive based contract. Or if he would go for it.

Hoosier PH wrote:The Cubs non-tendered Mark Prior. I wonder if it would be worth it to sign him to an incentive based contract. Or if he would go for it.

good move by the Cubs . . .

Hoosier PH wrote:The Cubs non-tendered Mark Prior. I wonder if it would be worth it to sign him to an incentive based contract. Or if he would go for it.

Probably the only contract he woudl get right now...

Maybe even as low as a minor league deal with a spring training invite. Can't see a team using a spot on their 40 roster for him.

drunkpirate66 wrote:

LIPH wrote:Maybe Comeback Player of the Year but Cy Young? No chance.

why?

of course he could . . .

He's no more than a 6 inning pitcher, like the rest of the Mets' starting rotation. The bullpen was fried by August this year and they haven't done anything to improve it unless you consider getting rid of Guillermo Mota addition by subtraction. No matter how good Martinez pitches, with the bullpen the Mets have I can't see him winning more than about 12 or 13 games and I don't think that's good enough for a starting pitcher to win the Cy Young.

LIPH wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

LIPH wrote:Maybe Comeback Player of the Year but Cy Young? No chance.

why?

of course he could . . .

He's no more than a 6 inning pitcher, like the rest of the Mets' starting rotation. The bullpen was fried by August this year and they haven't done anything to improve it unless you consider getting rid of Guillermo Mota addition by subtraction. No matter how good Martinez pitches, with the bullpen the Mets have I can't see him winning more than about 12 or 13 games and I don't think that's good enough for a starting pitcher to win the Cy Young.

with all do respect to the National League . . . IF Pedro is healthy . . . as close to 100% as he can get (of course, nowhere 1999 - 2001 level) I bet with his breaking balls and intelligence as a pitcher he can come close to a 2.75 ERA . . . with 200 + innings (albeit barely over 200) with 17 wins and close to 200 K's . . . since Pedro was signed by the Red Sox he has rarely been an 8 - 9 inning guy . . . and he usually spent some time on the DL. This was in his prime . . . in the toughest hitting division in baseball with sh it defense behind him and never what I would consider a top notch bullpen until 2004. . . . I see no reason why he can't put up the above numbers or close to it next season . . . with or without a decent bullpen.

Here we go.......

The names are starting to leak out and Roger Clemens will be named in the Mitchell report as a steroid user. A former New York Yankee strength trainer says he supplied Clemens with steroids.


Really, this is not a surprise.

drunkpirate66 wrote:

Hoosier PH wrote:The Cubs non-tendered Mark Prior. I wonder if it would be worth it to sign him to an incentive based contract. Or if he would go for it.

good move by the Cubs . . .

I think it might be a good move for another team. Give him a one million dollar base salary with a few more million in incentives for innings pitched and/or games started. I don't see a down side here. Worst case scenario a team is out a million bucks.

drunkpirate66 wrote:

LIPH wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

LIPH wrote:Maybe Comeback Player of the Year but Cy Young? No chance.

why?

of course he could . . .

He's no more than a 6 inning pitcher, like the rest of the Mets' starting rotation. The bullpen was fried by August this year and they haven't done anything to improve it unless you consider getting rid of Guillermo Mota addition by subtraction. No matter how good Martinez pitches, with the bullpen the Mets have I can't see him winning more than about 12 or 13 games and I don't think that's good enough for a starting pitcher to win the Cy Young.

with all do respect to the National League . . . IF Pedro is healthy . . . as close to 100% as he can get (of course, nowhere 1999 - 2001 level) I bet with his breaking balls and intelligence as a pitcher he can come close to a 2.75 ERA . . . with 200 + innings (albeit barely over 200) with 17 wins and close to 200 K's . . . since Pedro was signed by the Red Sox he has rarely been an 8 - 9 inning guy . . . and he usually spent some time on the DL. This was in his prime . . . in the toughest hitting division in baseball with sh it defense behind him and never what I would consider a top notch bullpen until 2004. . . . I see no reason why he can't put up the above numbers or close to it next season . . . with or without a decent bullpen.

He's 36 years old coming off shoulder surgery. I don't think he'll come close to 200 innings, 150 is more like it. The Mets don't have the greatest defense either. Wright won the Gold Glove but he didn't deserve it, he made over 20 errors. Moises Alou doesn't cover much more ground than I do in left field. Delgado wears a glove on the field because you have to. I'd be shocked if Martinez wins more than 13 games.

LIPH wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

LIPH wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

LIPH wrote:Maybe Comeback Player of the Year but Cy Young? No chance.

why?

of course he could . . .

He's no more than a 6 inning pitcher, like the rest of the Mets' starting rotation. The bullpen was fried by August this year and they haven't done anything to improve it unless you consider getting rid of Guillermo Mota addition by subtraction. No matter how good Martinez pitches, with the bullpen the Mets have I can't see him winning more than about 12 or 13 games and I don't think that's good enough for a starting pitcher to win the Cy Young.

with all do respect to the National League . . . IF Pedro is healthy . . . as close to 100% as he can get (of course, nowhere 1999 - 2001 level) I bet with his breaking balls and intelligence as a pitcher he can come close to a 2.75 ERA . . . with 200 + innings (albeit barely over 200) with 17 wins and close to 200 K's . . . since Pedro was signed by the Red Sox he has rarely been an 8 - 9 inning guy . . . and he usually spent some time on the DL. This was in his prime . . . in the toughest hitting division in baseball with sh it defense behind him and never what I would consider a top notch bullpen until 2004. . . . I see no reason why he can't put up the above numbers or close to it next season . . . with or without a decent bullpen.

He's 36 years old coming off shoulder surgery. I don't think he'll come close to 200 innings, 150 is more like it. The Mets don't have the greatest defense either. Wright won the Gold Glove but he didn't deserve it, he made over 20 errors. Moises Alou doesn't cover much more ground than I do in left field. Delgado wears a glove on the field because you have to. I'd be shocked if Martinez wins more than 13 games.

13 or under wouldn't surprise me. However, Pedro Marinez is the best pitcher I have ever seen. Clemens and Maddux, others, even in their prime couldn't touch Pedro in his prime . . . IMO. Pedro 1999 could've been the best season a pitcher ever had especially with the small strike zone, juiced up players, and league averages for pitching . . .

So . . . because Pedro is such a competitor and because he is so smart on the mound . . . and IF he is near 100% for his age I think it is possible for him to have one more "great" year.

I wouldn't say . . . "no way" . . . . it is possible.

That's a lot of "ifs"

CaptainP wrote:Aaron Rowand signs with the Giants

I hate this move, loved the gutsy play this man gives

Andy Pettitte is now being reported to be in the Mitchell report as a steroid user.

drunkpirate66 wrote:

LIPH wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

LIPH wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

LIPH wrote:Maybe Comeback Player of the Year but Cy Young? No chance.

why?

of course he could . . .

He's no more than a 6 inning pitcher, like the rest of the Mets' starting rotation. The bullpen was fried by August this year and they haven't done anything to improve it unless you consider getting rid of Guillermo Mota addition by subtraction. No matter how good Martinez pitches, with the bullpen the Mets have I can't see him winning more than about 12 or 13 games and I don't think that's good enough for a starting pitcher to win the Cy Young.

with all do respect to the National League . . . IF Pedro is healthy . . . as close to 100% as he can get (of course, nowhere 1999 - 2001 level) I bet with his breaking balls and intelligence as a pitcher he can come close to a 2.75 ERA . . . with 200 + innings (albeit barely over 200) with 17 wins and close to 200 K's . . . since Pedro was signed by the Red Sox he has rarely been an 8 - 9 inning guy . . . and he usually spent some time on the DL. This was in his prime . . . in the toughest hitting division in baseball with sh it defense behind him and never what I would consider a top notch bullpen until 2004. . . . I see no reason why he can't put up the above numbers or close to it next season . . . with or without a decent bullpen.

He's 36 years old coming off shoulder surgery. I don't think he'll come close to 200 innings, 150 is more like it. The Mets don't have the greatest defense either. Wright won the Gold Glove but he didn't deserve it, he made over 20 errors. Moises Alou doesn't cover much more ground than I do in left field. Delgado wears a glove on the field because you have to. I'd be shocked if Martinez wins more than 13 games.

13 or under wouldn't surprise me. However, Pedro Marinez is the best pitcher I have ever seen. Clemens and Maddux, others, even in their prime couldn't touch Pedro in his prime . . . IMO. Pedro 1999 could've been the best season a pitcher ever had especially with the small strike zone, juiced up players, and league averages for pitching . . .

So . . . because Pedro is such a competitor and because he is so smart on the mound . . . and IF he is near 100% for his age I think it is possible for him to have one more "great" year.

I wouldn't say . . . "no way" . . . . it is possible.

I lean towards 17 wins and 190 innings. He is surprisingly durable and if you looks at his stats, gives more innings than you'd expect as well. I think next year will be a very good year for him.

As for Mets defense, up the middle they are VERY good. Beltran is gold glove, Reyes is potential gold glove and Castillo has won 2. Schnieder is also a big upgrade defensively at the position. The corners? Wright didn't deserve the GG, but his problems are throwing, not range and he makes more great plays than he gives back IMHO. Deglado . . . he's not great, but he's not Mo Vaughn either. Better than I expected. Alou's range isn't there but he gets to whatever is within his range and Church is a better defender than Green or Milledge were last year.

I think Mets pitching will surprise with all three of Pedro, Maine and Perez being around 17 wins. That's why I think a Johan anchor would be incredible.

But my glasses are colored blue and orange . . .

BottleofRum wrote:Andy Pettitte is now being reported to be in the Mitchell report as a steroid user.

I will say this over and over . . . why do we care and why does it matter?

going to stop watching?