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aeroparrot wrote:

flipflopgirl wrote:

aeroparrot wrote:

flipflopgirl wrote: anyone see the clip of Manny in the dugout holding the sign that he's being traded to Green Bay for Farve?!?!?

Saw that. Pretty funny.

cracked me up!!!!!

I think that was from Monday night's game.

they kept showing it today while everyone was jabbering back and forth over whre he was going to end up!!

flipflopgirl wrote:

aeroparrot wrote:

flipflopgirl wrote:

aeroparrot wrote:

flipflopgirl wrote: anyone see the clip of Manny in the dugout holding the sign that he's being traded to Green Bay for Farve?!?!?

Saw that. Pretty funny.

cracked me up!!!!!

I think that was from Monday night's game.

they kept showing it today while everyone was jabbering back and forth over whre he was going to end up!!

All I'm going to say about it is "Thanks Manny for bringing two championships to Boston but it's time for you to leave."

Someone told me today that the Red Sox are lucky to be getting great players during their prime and then letting them loose as soon as they are on the down side of their career. I told him that it wasn't always the case but they have been lucky recently.

Cubbie Bear wrote:Cubs Sweep!!!

In case anyone missed it.

TommyBahama wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

TommyBahama wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

popcornjack wrote:http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/r ... s/thebuzz/ Says it's fact but is skimpy on details.

I heard earlier that the Sox were holding out for Ronny Paulino along with Jason Bay. That would be sweet for the Sox . . .

all I see is a bunch of rumors everywhere . . . although I am sure he is gone I am not convinced as to where or for who.

ok...i've been saying for a week ..that the Sox would get Jason Bay....and it shows how bad they wanted to get rid of Manny by eating his contract...given up Moss and Hanson....they should of gotten at least one more player!!

You called it Tommy!

I like Bay . . . I do, really. But I think Manny bullied the Red Sox into this. I read a story just now that said at 3:30 Theo Epstein went to John Henry and said "looks like no deal" and Henry's response was "oh you are going to make a f*cking deal . . ."

The Sox absolutley should've gotten atleast one more player, I agree. I was hoping for Ronny Paulino to take over for Varitek.

I never thought they would do it. As young and as good as Jason Bay is it just seems a little much.

Funny about Manny though . . . left field out in LA is massive. Lets see how that hurt knee holds up . . .

I origionally thought Henry was the one owner who didn't want to Trade him..Hanson wasn't a huge loss...but i think Moss could of been used in another deal....at least he'll have a shot at playing time in Pittsburg!!

Gordon Edes reported it in case you want my source. True or not it made me chuckle.

aeroparrot wrote:Someone told me today that the Red Sox are lucky to be getting great players during their prime and then letting them loose as soon as they are on the down side of their career. I told him that it wasn't always the case but they have been lucky recently.

They still have Veritek.....and i really don't think Manny is on the downside yet!!!...He just wore out his welcome!!...Lowell was suppose to be on the downside and he's been great!!..not bad for a throw in!!

aeroparrot wrote:Someone told me today that the Red Sox are lucky to be getting great players during their prime and then letting them loose as soon as they are on the down side of their career. I told him that it wasn't always the case but they have been lucky recently.

?

Was Pedro Martinez lucky?
How bout Curt Schilling?
Manny Ramirez?
Taking a chance on Ortiz who had solid SABR stats in the minors (Theo is a SABR guy . . . no luck; just stats)
Mike Lowell . . . nope always been solid and they knew his swing would be perfect for the Monster . .
Josh Becket . . no way
Keith Foulke . . . uh uh
JD Drew . . . um . . . nope.
Orlando Cabrera?
Alex Gonzalez's defense?
Trading Marte for Crisp and his would be Gold Glove last season . . . No.
Acquiring Jason Varitek and Dereck Lowe for nothing? No way!

What about the minor league system . . . ?

Dustin Pedroia
Youkillis
Papelbon
Jon Lester
Jacoby Elisbury
Masterson
Lowry

all doing what they were projected to do . . . (except Papelbon at closer but as far as pitching well he is doing it.

Where is the luck?

All I see are guys who were paid to get the job done and did so as well as developed minor leaguers . . .

I miss the old days, when a player stayed with a team..... Yaz, Dewey Evans (the REAL #24!!!), Ted Wiliams, and yes, even Lou Gehrig and Joe Dimaggio....

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:I miss the old days, when a player stayed with a team..... Yaz, Dewey Evans (the REAL #24!!!), Ted Wiliams, and yes, even Lou Gehrig and Joe Dimaggio....

really old days . . .

players moved around back then and every decade 1940's and on . . . especailly after tv money came in . . . it has always been a business and players have always moved around.

want a really old example? Babe Ruth.

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:I miss the old days, when a player stayed with a team..... Yaz, Dewey Evans (the REAL #24!!!), Ted Wiliams, and yes, even Lou Gehrig and Joe Dimaggio....

when they had HEART and respect and LOVE for the game!!!!

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:I miss the old days, when a player stayed with a team..... Yaz, Dewey Evans (the REAL #24!!!), Ted Wiliams, and yes, even Lou Gehrig and Joe Dimaggio....

I agree Jen....you could add Rice to that list!!!!And Evans is my all time Favorite Red Sox!!

you all are simply remembering what you want to remember . . .

players have always been moved around and they have always abused their fame.

with 24 news stations, internet, and camera phones we just have more technological proof of players do immoral things.

Alcohol, drugs, and whores were probably more prominent back before the 1960's then they are today.

Babe Ruth and Micky Mantle would play drunk according to first hand reports.

Babe Ruth with prostitutes is a documented fact.

How bout Ty Cobb? Yeah, he had lots of resepct for the game . ..

Come on . . . I could list hundreds more . . .

drunkpirate66 wrote:you all are simply remembering what you want to remember . . .

players have always been moved around and they have always abused their fame.

with 24 news stations, internet, and camera phones we just have more technological proof of players do immoral things.

Alcohol, drugs, and whores were probably more prominent back before the 1960's then they are today.

Babe Ruth and Micky Mantle would play drunk according to first hand reports.

Babe Ruth with prostitutes is a documented fact.

How bout Ty Cobb? Yeah, he had lots of resepct for the game . ..

Come on . . . I could list hundreds more . . .

Yep, but even back then the players didn't make obscene amounts of money. More than the average worker, sure, but not obscene....

You'll note I didn't list either Ruth or Mantle....

Sure, there was always debauchery, but even back then, it was still a game, and players *mostly* had heart..... There were always exceptions, as you note.......


And they threw Ty Cobb off the field in Iowa......

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:I miss the old days, when a player stayed with a team..... Yaz, Dewey Evans (the REAL #24!!!), Ted Wiliams, and yes, even Lou Gehrig and Joe Dimaggio....

Well, I hope THIS sparks some good debate-
Here's MY list of the greatest players at each position who stayed with ONE team:

LHP: Whitey Ford-NEW YORK YANKEES
RHP: Walter Johnson-WASHINGTON SENATORS
C: Johnny Bench-CINCINNATI REDS
1B: Lou Gerhig-NEW YORK YANKEES
2B: Charlie Gehringer-DETROIT TIGERS
SS: Cal Ripken-BALTIMORE ORIOLES
3B: Mike Schmidt-PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES
LF-Ted Williams-BOSTON RED SOX
CF-Joe Dimaggio-NEW YORK YANKEES
RF-Roberto Clemente-PITTSBURGH PIRATES

It wasn't easy leaving people like Bob Feller, Mickey Mantle, Brooks Robinson, and Al Kaline off that list.

I'd be intrested in reading other people's choices.

Wino you know wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:I miss the old days, when a player stayed with a team..... Yaz, Dewey Evans (the REAL #24!!!), Ted Wiliams, and yes, even Lou Gehrig and Joe Dimaggio....

Well, I hope THIS sparks some good debate-
Here's MY list of the greatest players at each position who stayed with ONE team:

LHP: Whitey Ford-NEW YORK YANKEES
RHP: Walter Johnson-WASHINGTON SENATORS
C: Johnny Bench-CINCINNATI REDS
1B: Lou Gerhig-NEW YORK YANKEES
2B: Charlie Gehringer-DETROIT TIGERS
SS: Cal Ripken-BALTIMORE ORIOLES
3B: Mike Schmidt-PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES
LF-Ted Williams-BOSTON RED SOX
CF-Joe Dimaggio-NEW YORK YANKEES
RF-Roberto Clemente-PITTSBURGH PIRATES

It wasn't easy leaving people like Bob Feller, Mickey Mantle, Brooks Robinson, and Al Kaline off that list.

I'd be intrested in reading other people's choices.

Wow - Gary - You nailed it. I can't think of any changes I would make to this All Star list.

drunkpirate66 wrote:

aeroparrot wrote:Someone told me today that the Red Sox are lucky to be getting great players during their prime and then letting them loose as soon as they are on the down side of their career. I told him that it wasn't always the case but they have been lucky recently.

?

Was Pedro Martinez lucky?
How bout Curt Schilling?
Manny Ramirez?
Taking a chance on Ortiz who had solid SABR stats in the minors (Theo is a SABR guy . . . no luck; just stats)
Mike Lowell . . . nope always been solid and they knew his swing would be perfect for the Monster . .
Josh Becket . . no way
Keith Foulke . . . uh uh
JD Drew . . . um . . . nope.
Orlando Cabrera?
Alex Gonzalez's defense?
Trading Marte for Crisp and his would be Gold Glove last season . . . No.
Acquiring Jason Varitek and Dereck Lowe for nothing? No way!

What about the minor league system . . . ?

Dustin Pedroia
Youkillis
Papelbon
Jon Lester
Jacoby Elisbury
Masterson
Lowry

all doing what they were projected to do . . . (except Papelbon at closer but as far as pitching well he is doing it.

Where is the luck?

All I see are guys who were paid to get the job done and did so as well as developed minor leaguers . . .

First of all, you are taking it out of context. I was saying that the Red Sox were able to get these players while they are at the peak of their performance, not that they were lucky to get the players at all, these days. If you think about it, the Red Sox have been able to get a lot of the players, including the ones from the farm system, that they wanted (in a general sense, there are going to be exceptions like Gagne). Also, if you look at their history, they have gotten the "star" players at the end of their careers a lot of times. Just read any book that chronicles the Red Sox history, there are a lot more cases for this than not.

The change? Management's desire to do their research to get the best players who will put in the amount of work that they are getting paid.

Tom,

You are right, Lowell, for me, was a surprise that he performed very well since he is at an age where ball players will start "losing" their strengths.

lati2d wrote:Wow - Gary - You nailed it. I can't think of any changes I would make to this All Star list.

Mel Ott and Pie Traynor could easily be on that list too.

I wanted to mention Willie Mays, but, of course, he went from the Giants to the Mets for his final two years.

Wino you know wrote:

lati2d wrote:Wow - Gary - You nailed it. I can't think of any changes I would make to this All Star list.

Mel Ott and Pie Traynor could easily be on that list too.

I wanted to mention Willie Mays, but, of course, he went from the Giants to the Mets for his final two years.

i would have to look at some of the old Dodgers..like Duke Snyder....Koufax......But your list is pretty good Garry!!

Wino you know wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:I miss the old days, when a player stayed with a team..... Yaz, Dewey Evans (the REAL #24!!!), Ted Wiliams, and yes, even Lou Gehrig and Joe Dimaggio....

Well, I hope THIS sparks some good debate-
Here's MY list of the greatest players at each position who stayed with ONE team:

LHP: Whitey Ford-NEW YORK YANKEES
RHP: Walter Johnson-WASHINGTON SENATORS
C: Johnny Bench-CINCINNATI REDS
1B: Lou Gerhig-NEW YORK YANKEES
2B: Charlie Gehringer-DETROIT TIGERS
SS: Cal Ripken-BALTIMORE ORIOLES
3B: Mike Schmidt-PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES
LF-Ted Williams-BOSTON RED SOX
CF-Joe Dimaggio-NEW YORK YANKEES
RF-Roberto Clemente-PITTSBURGH PIRATES

It wasn't easy leaving people like Bob Feller, Mickey Mantle, Brooks Robinson, and Al Kaline off that list.

I'd be intrested in reading other people's choices.

No arguments.

TommyBahama wrote:i would have to look at some of the old Dodgers..like Duke Snyder....Koufax......But your list is pretty good Garry!!

Koufax, yes, definately.
But Duke Snider, one of the greatest center fielders ever, went back to New York to play for the Mets in 1963, and to San Francisco to play for the Giants in 1964 before retiring and going on to the Hall of Fame.