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I gotta throw in Ernie Banks into that line up, Garry.

SMLCHNG wrote:I gotta throw in Ernie Banks into that line up, Garry.

It was a tough call, Ernie Banks against Lou Gehrig AND Cal Ripken, but the fact that they both played so many consecutive games swayed my decision.
"Mr. Cub" was in a class by himself, to be sure.

Wino you know wrote:

TommyBahama wrote:i would have to look at some of the old Dodgers..like Duke Snyder....Koufax......But your list is pretty good Garry!!

Koufax, yes, definitely.
But Duke Snider, one of the greatest center fielders ever, went back to New York to play for the Mets in 1963, and to San Francisco to play for the Giants in 1964 before retiring and going on to the Hall of Fame.

WASN'T SURE ON HIM....But a pitcher for the Orioles 19 years and pretty damn good.....Jim Palmer

Wino you know wrote:

SMLCHNG wrote:I gotta throw in Ernie Banks into that line up, Garry.

It was a tough call, Ernie Banks against Lou Gehrig AND Cal Ripken, but the fact that they both played so many consecutive games swayed my decision.
"Mr. Cub" was in a class by himself, to be sure.

He was to me. "Let's play two"!!

TommyBahama wrote:WASN'T SURE ON HIM....But a pitcher for the Orioles 19 years and pretty damn good.....Jim Palmer

Jim Palmer was another great one.
But I had to choose Walter Johnson over him. 417 wins, 531 complete games, 110 shut outs. (THAT record will never be broken).

SMLCHNG wrote:He was to me. "Let's play two"!!

They're not saying that in Milwaukee right now, are they?

sorry, Jim-I still love ya!

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:you all are simply remembering what you want to remember . . .

players have always been moved around and they have always abused their fame.

with 24 news stations, internet, and camera phones we just have more technological proof of players do immoral things.

Alcohol, drugs, and whores were probably more prominent back before the 1960's then they are today.

Babe Ruth and Micky Mantle would play drunk according to first hand reports.

Babe Ruth with prostitutes is a documented fact.

How bout Ty Cobb? Yeah, he had lots of resepct for the game . ..

Come on . . . I could list hundreds more . . .

Yep, but even back then the players didn't make obscene amounts of money. More than the average worker, sure, but not obscene....

You'll note I didn't list either Ruth or Mantle....

Sure, there was always debauchery, but even back then, it was still a game, and players *mostly* had heart..... There were always exceptions, as you note.......


And they threw Ty Cobb off the field in Iowa......

Not sure what money has to do with anything. But I know that men haven't changed much over the years and neither has the game. If anything the fact that a guy who has already made 10,000,000 + or even 100,000,000 million chooses to stay and play means he loved the game more then some guy who had to continue his career to pay the bills. I really don't see much a change . . . privledged atheltes being worshiped by millions . . . having drinks and meals and girls bought for them . . . getting away with crimes because of their name . . . players being moved around by greedy owners or by greedy agents . . . nothing has changed in many decades.

and Cal Ripken killed the Orioles franchise . . . most worthless record ever.

the amount of talent they had to pass through their minor leagues just so some guy can play so people can believe in baseball again after a strike. good for MLB . . . bad for the Orioles.

Wino you know wrote:

SMLCHNG wrote:He was to me. "Let's play two"!!

They're not saying that in Milwaukee right now, are they?

sorry, Jim-I still love ya!

Not so much.

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:you all are simply remembering what you want to remember . . .

players have always been moved around and they have always abused their fame.

with 24 news stations, internet, and camera phones we just have more technological proof of players do immoral things.

Alcohol, drugs, and whores were probably more prominent back before the 1960's then they are today.

Babe Ruth and Micky Mantle would play drunk according to first hand reports.

Babe Ruth with prostitutes is a documented fact.

How bout Ty Cobb? Yeah, he had lots of resepct for the game . ..

Come on . . . I could list hundreds more . . .

Yep, but even back then the players didn't make obscene amounts of money. More than the average worker, sure, but not obscene....

You'll note I didn't list either Ruth or Mantle....

Sure, there was always debauchery, but even back then, it was still a game, and players *mostly* had heart..... There were always exceptions, as you note.......


And they threw Ty Cobb off the field in Iowa......

one of the things that always stuck with me from the Ken Burns documentary was that up until 1975 the average ball player made 7 times the average American's salary. By the time the doc came out, it was up to 50 times.

popcornjack wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:you all are simply remembering what you want to remember . . .

players have always been moved around and they have always abused their fame.

with 24 news stations, internet, and camera phones we just have more technological proof of players do immoral things.

Alcohol, drugs, and whores were probably more prominent back before the 1960's then they are today.

Babe Ruth and Micky Mantle would play drunk according to first hand reports.

Babe Ruth with prostitutes is a documented fact.

How bout Ty Cobb? Yeah, he had lots of resepct for the game . ..

Come on . . . I could list hundreds more . . .

Yep, but even back then the players didn't make obscene amounts of money. More than the average worker, sure, but not obscene....

You'll note I didn't list either Ruth or Mantle....

Sure, there was always debauchery, but even back then, it was still a game, and players *mostly* had heart..... There were always exceptions, as you note.......


And they threw Ty Cobb off the field in Iowa......

one of the things that always stuck with me from the Ken Burns documentary was that up until 1975 the average ball player made 7 times the average American's salary. By the time the doc came out, it was up to 50 times.

So?

Blame tv revenue. that is the overwhelming source of player salary in any sport. again, why does that matter?

I am sure the guys who played ball in the 30's weren't spoke to kindly of when people who worked 80 hours a week on a farm or in the coal mines found out that they made more money . . .

it doesn't change the love and/ or dedication someone has for the game.

popcornjack wrote:one of the things that always stuck with me from the Ken Burns documentary was that up until 1975 the average ball player made 7 times the average American's salary. By the time the doc came out, it was up to 50 times.

Which leads me to wonder,
If Manny Ramirez (or ANY ball player) didn't show up to "work" for 30 days, and the guy who picks up your garbage didn't come to work for 30 days, whose absence to you think would be more noticeable?

drunkpirate66 wrote:

popcornjack wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:you all are simply remembering what you want to remember . . .

players have always been moved around and they have always abused their fame.

with 24 news stations, internet, and camera phones we just have more technological proof of players do immoral things.

Alcohol, drugs, and whores were probably more prominent back before the 1960's then they are today.

Babe Ruth and Micky Mantle would play drunk according to first hand reports.

Babe Ruth with prostitutes is a documented fact.

How bout Ty Cobb? Yeah, he had lots of resepct for the game . ..

Come on . . . I could list hundreds more . . .

Yep, but even back then the players didn't make obscene amounts of money. More than the average worker, sure, but not obscene....

You'll note I didn't list either Ruth or Mantle....

Sure, there was always debauchery, but even back then, it was still a game, and players *mostly* had heart..... There were always exceptions, as you note.......


And they threw Ty Cobb off the field in Iowa......

one of the things that always stuck with me from the Ken Burns documentary was that up until 1975 the average ball player made 7 times the average American's salary. By the time the doc came out, it was up to 50 times.

So?

Blame tv revenue. that is the overwhelming source of player salary in any sport. again, why does that matter?

I am sure the guys who played ball in the 30's weren't spoke to kindly of when people who worked 80 hours a week on a farm or in the coal mines found out that they made more money . . .

it doesn't change the love and/ or dedication someone has for the game.

My point, dillweed was that there was, or at least nostalgic people would like us to believe, that there used to be a commonality between players and fans that doesn't exist now. You hear stories about how players lived in the neighborhood, that they were viewed with a mixture of admiration and "hey he's just another lunchpail guy." I know the reality of the universe has changed, and I'm not soooo dumb (I mean I'm dumb, but give me some credit) as to think that all of the new forms of income weren't going to affect the game, I was simply pointing out an interesting fact about the financial history of baseball.

and poop I forgot this. Garry? 100% right.

Wino you know wrote:

popcornjack wrote:one of the things that always stuck with me from the Ken Burns documentary was that up until 1975 the average ball player made 7 times the average American's salary. By the time the doc came out, it was up to 50 times.

Which leads me to wonder,
If Manny Ramirez (or ANY ball player) didn't show up to "work" for 30 days, and the guy who picks up your garbage didn't come to work for 30 days, whose absence to you think would be more noticeable?

that could be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. I can play too . . . plumbers who make six figures or elementary school teachers . . . how bout airline pilots making more than the league minimum for MLB versus Dunkin Donut employees?

what do you want? communism? puh - lease . . . we all respect the garbage man.

popcornjack wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:you all are simply remembering what you want to remember . . .

players have always been moved around and they have always abused their fame.

with 24 news stations, internet, and camera phones we just have more technological proof of players do immoral things.

Alcohol, drugs, and whores were probably more prominent back before the 1960's then they are today.

Babe Ruth and Micky Mantle would play drunk according to first hand reports.

Babe Ruth with prostitutes is a documented fact.

How bout Ty Cobb? Yeah, he had lots of resepct for the game . ..

Come on . . . I could list hundreds more . . .

Yep, but even back then the players didn't make obscene amounts of money. More than the average worker, sure, but not obscene....

You'll note I didn't list either Ruth or Mantle....

Sure, there was always debauchery, but even back then, it was still a game, and players *mostly* had heart..... There were always exceptions, as you note.......


And they threw Ty Cobb off the field in Iowa......

one of the things that always stuck with me from the Ken Burns documentary was that up until 1975 the average ball player made 7 times the average American's salary. By the time the doc came out, it was up to 50 times.

*Exactly*!!!

popcornjack wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

popcornjack wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:you all are simply remembering what you want to remember . . .

players have always been moved around and they have always abused their fame.

with 24 news stations, internet, and camera phones we just have more technological proof of players do immoral things.

Alcohol, drugs, and whores were probably more prominent back before the 1960's then they are today.

Babe Ruth and Micky Mantle would play drunk according to first hand reports.

Babe Ruth with prostitutes is a documented fact.

How bout Ty Cobb? Yeah, he had lots of resepct for the game . ..

Come on . . . I could list hundreds more . . .

Yep, but even back then the players didn't make obscene amounts of money. More than the average worker, sure, but not obscene....

You'll note I didn't list either Ruth or Mantle....

Sure, there was always debauchery, but even back then, it was still a game, and players *mostly* had heart..... There were always exceptions, as you note.......


And they threw Ty Cobb off the field in Iowa......

one of the things that always stuck with me from the Ken Burns documentary was that up until 1975 the average ball player made 7 times the average American's salary. By the time the doc came out, it was up to 50 times.

So?

Blame tv revenue. that is the overwhelming source of player salary in any sport. again, why does that matter?

I am sure the guys who played ball in the 30's weren't spoke to kindly of when people who worked 80 hours a week on a farm or in the coal mines found out that they made more money . . .

it doesn't change the love and/ or dedication someone has for the game.

My point, dillweed was that there was, or at least nostalgic people would like us to believe, that there used to be a commonality between players and fans that doesn't exist now. You hear stories about how players lived in the neighborhood, that they were viewed with a mixture of admiration and "hey he's just another lunchpail guy." I know the reality of the universe has changed, and I'm not soooo dumb (I mean I'm dumb, but give me some credit) as to think that all of the new forms of income weren't going to affect the game, I was simply pointing out an interesting fact about the financial history of baseball.

and poop I forgot this. Garry? 100% right.

When? WWI era? Not for a long . . . long time my friend. Sure, some of the low paid guys in the 60's probably bought houses in middle class neighborhoods . . . but most were not part of the financial norm and they knew it. For those who listed Mickey Mantle and co. no f'n way were they still Mickey from the block. The were above the common man in the eyes of almost everyone. Even in Ted Williams time (pre war). He had his big boat down in the Keys with all the boys from Boston. Not very common. It is an illusion at best to think otherwise.

Imagine, now, that players today drank themselves numb every night? Who has more respect for the game? The guys who keep in shape or the guys who abused their bodies?

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

popcornjack wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:you all are simply remembering what you want to remember . . .

players have always been moved around and they have always abused their fame.

with 24 news stations, internet, and camera phones we just have more technological proof of players do immoral things.

Alcohol, drugs, and whores were probably more prominent back before the 1960's then they are today.

Babe Ruth and Micky Mantle would play drunk according to first hand reports.

Babe Ruth with prostitutes is a documented fact.

How bout Ty Cobb? Yeah, he had lots of resepct for the game . ..

Come on . . . I could list hundreds more . . .

Yep, but even back then the players didn't make obscene amounts of money. More than the average worker, sure, but not obscene....

You'll note I didn't list either Ruth or Mantle....

Sure, there was always debauchery, but even back then, it was still a game, and players *mostly* had heart..... There were always exceptions, as you note.......


And they threw Ty Cobb off the field in Iowa......

one of the things that always stuck with me from the Ken Burns documentary was that up until 1975 the average ball player made 7 times the average American's salary. By the time the doc came out, it was up to 50 times.

*Exactly*!!!

this is just silly. so to "love baseball" you can't make over the median household income . . . ? salaries have nothing to do with it. Babe Ruth was such an every day guy . . . . . . all them Yankee boys in the 20's were such every day people . . . silly.

drunkpirate66 wrote:

Wino you know wrote:

popcornjack wrote:one of the things that always stuck with me from the Ken Burns documentary was that up until 1975 the average ball player made 7 times the average American's salary. By the time the doc came out, it was up to 50 times.

Which leads me to wonder,
If Manny Ramirez (or ANY ball player) didn't show up to "work" for 30 days, and the guy who picks up your garbage didn't come to work for 30 days, whose absence to you think would be more noticeable?

that could be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

No, the most ridiculous thing ever heard is Jason Varitek being worthy of the hall of fame.

Sure, you RESPECT the garbage man, but you don't su.ck his a$$ the way you do ballplayers.

Wino you know wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

Wino you know wrote:

popcornjack wrote:one of the things that always stuck with me from the Ken Burns documentary was that up until 1975 the average ball player made 7 times the average American's salary. By the time the doc came out, it was up to 50 times.

Which leads me to wonder,
If Manny Ramirez (or ANY ball player) didn't show up to "work" for 30 days, and the guy who picks up your garbage didn't come to work for 30 days, whose absence to you think would be more noticeable?

that could be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

No, the most ridiculous thing ever heard is Jason Varitek being worthy of the hall of fame.

Sure, you RESPECT the garbage man, but you don't su.ck his a$$ the way you do ballplayers.

nope. can't say that I do.

Wino you know wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

Wino you know wrote:

popcornjack wrote:one of the things that always stuck with me from the Ken Burns documentary was that up until 1975 the average ball player made 7 times the average American's salary. By the time the doc came out, it was up to 50 times.

Which leads me to wonder,
If Manny Ramirez (or ANY ball player) didn't show up to "work" for 30 days, and the guy who picks up your garbage didn't come to work for 30 days, whose absence to you think would be more noticeable?

that could be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

No, the most ridiculous thing ever heard is Jason Varitek being worthy of the hall of fame.

Sure, you RESPECT the garbage man, but you don't su.ck his a$$ the way you do ballplayers.

Hey!! I've heard WAAAAAY more ridiculous things than that. Like manny and two good prospects for jason bay.....