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Jason Bay is a quality player.
Probably the best on the entire Pirates roster, and, obviously, they were going nowhere with him.
I'm sure Red Sox fans will be happy with him.

drunkpirate66 wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

popcornjack wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:you all are simply remembering what you want to remember . . .

players have always been moved around and they have always abused their fame.

with 24 news stations, internet, and camera phones we just have more technological proof of players do immoral things.

Alcohol, drugs, and whores were probably more prominent back before the 1960's then they are today.

Babe Ruth and Micky Mantle would play drunk according to first hand reports.

Babe Ruth with prostitutes is a documented fact.

How bout Ty Cobb? Yeah, he had lots of resepct for the game . ..

Come on . . . I could list hundreds more . . .

Yep, but even back then the players didn't make obscene amounts of money. More than the average worker, sure, but not obscene....

You'll note I didn't list either Ruth or Mantle....

Sure, there was always debauchery, but even back then, it was still a game, and players *mostly* had heart..... There were always exceptions, as you note.......


And they threw Ty Cobb off the field in Iowa......

one of the things that always stuck with me from the Ken Burns documentary was that up until 1975 the average ball player made 7 times the average American's salary. By the time the doc came out, it was up to 50 times.

*Exactly*!!!

this is just silly. so to "love baseball" you can't make over the median household income . . . ? salaries have nothing to do with it. Babe Ruth was such an every day guy . . . . . . all them Yankee boys in the 20's were such every day people . . . silly.

So because it's different from your opinion, it's silly?

You keep talking about the stars. Ken Burns was talking about the *average* ball player...... Apples and oranges....

Now I remember why I generally avoid this thread.....

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

popcornjack wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:you all are simply remembering what you want to remember . . .

players have always been moved around and they have always abused their fame.

with 24 news stations, internet, and camera phones we just have more technological proof of players do immoral things.

Alcohol, drugs, and whores were probably more prominent back before the 1960's then they are today.

Babe Ruth and Micky Mantle would play drunk according to first hand reports.

Babe Ruth with prostitutes is a documented fact.

How bout Ty Cobb? Yeah, he had lots of resepct for the game . ..

Come on . . . I could list hundreds more . . .

Yep, but even back then the players didn't make obscene amounts of money. More than the average worker, sure, but not obscene....

You'll note I didn't list either Ruth or Mantle....

Sure, there was always debauchery, but even back then, it was still a game, and players *mostly* had heart..... There were always exceptions, as you note.......


And they threw Ty Cobb off the field in Iowa......

one of the things that always stuck with me from the Ken Burns documentary was that up until 1975 the average ball player made 7 times the average American's salary. By the time the doc came out, it was up to 50 times.

*Exactly*!!!

this is just silly. so to "love baseball" you can't make over the median household income . . . ? salaries have nothing to do with it. Babe Ruth was such an every day guy . . . . . . all them Yankee boys in the 20's were such every day people . . . silly.

So because it's different from your opinion, it's silly?

You keep talking about the stars. Ken Burns was talking about the *average* ball player...... Apples and oranges....

Now I remember why I generally avoid this thread.....

no. its silly because baseball players for decades now (like other professional athletes, politicians, actors, and rock stars) have made tons of money for something they love to do . . . it is nothing new.

What year did things change? When did baseball players love the game and then stop loving it? serious question . . . I really want to hear your opinion on this. I think they still love to play . . . but about when did things change . . . ?


*and the players you listed were not the average ball players by the way.

I think the most interesting thing about the Red Sox trade is Manny playing left field out in LA . . . I really can't wait to see this.

I think both he and Bay will be in their respective lineups 2nite . . .

drunkpirate66 wrote:*and the players you listed were not the average ball players by the way.

No, they weren't, but Jack (whom I quoted) was talking about the Ken Burns series and his reference *was* about the average...

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:*and the players you listed were not the average ball players by the way.

No, they weren't, but Jack (whom I quoted) was talking about the Ken Burns series and his reference *was* about the average...

Fair enough . . . just going by what you said.

Now, I am very curious . . . when did things change? Around what year. I honestly don't see a difference . . . but if you do I would really like to know when players stopped loving baseball?

drunkpirate66 wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:*and the players you listed were not the average ball players by the way.

No, they weren't, but Jack (whom I quoted) was talking about the Ken Burns series and his reference *was* about the average...

Fair enough . . . just going by what you said.

Now, I am very curious . . . when did things change? Around what year. I honestly don't see a difference . . . but if you do I would really like to know when players stopped loving baseball?

Well, dillweed, (you have totally brought that on yourself. ) if you read my quote, you'll see that it says Ken Burns mentions that it's after 1975.

popcornjack wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:*and the players you listed were not the average ball players by the way.

No, they weren't, but Jack (whom I quoted) was talking about the Ken Burns series and his reference *was* about the average...

Fair enough . . . just going by what you said.

Now, I am very curious . . . when did things change? Around what year. I honestly don't see a difference . . . but if you do I would really like to know when players stopped loving baseball?

Well, dillweed, (you have totally brought that on yourself. ) if you read my quote, you'll see that it says Ken Burns mentions that it's after 1975.

so basically Curt Flood and Free Agency changed it from a well-paying job for a lot of guys and stupid money for a few; to really stupid money well beyond the median household income in the US and a lot more insane money-overgrown brat types whose only contribution to society is playing a game

popcornjack wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:*and the players you listed were not the average ball players by the way.

No, they weren't, but Jack (whom I quoted) was talking about the Ken Burns series and his reference *was* about the average...

Fair enough . . . just going by what you said.

Now, I am very curious . . . when did things change? Around what year. I honestly don't see a difference . . . but if you do I would really like to know when players stopped loving baseball?

Well, dillweed, (you have totally brought that on yourself. ) if you read my quote, you'll see that it says Ken Burns mentions that it's after 1975.

I did your quote, Slappy Nuts, and all that mentioned was money. Last thing I will say about this is I disagree with the notion that if someone makes more money or tons of money or whatever qualifier you want to put on "money" that does not mean they don't love what they do. I think porfessional baseball players have A. Always loved playing and B. were always regarded as above the common man in society (unless you go back to the WWI days and before). Look at the 1927 Yankees . . . every player on that team was worshipped by fans around the world and they were wearing clothes normal people couldn't afford, eating at restaurants normal people couldn't afford, staying in hotels and traveling to places normal people couldn't afford (buying girls normal people couldn't afford . . . high end alcohol and cigars . . . not part of the norm - BUT they loved the game).

I f aguy today makes 2 million a year . . . not A Rod, Jeter, or Manny money. He could play baseball for 1 or 2 years and retire. He would own homes and cars and could pay for his kids college and eat well. So why don't they do this? I don't know anyone who has done this . . . why? Because they love to play. A Rod has made close to a half a billion dollars (like Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan) they keep playing. Jordan even came back well past his prime because he loves the game. Look at guys like Maddux and Glavine . . . Jeter . . . Pedro Martinez . . . Vlad . . . Ivan Rodiguez . . . all multi millionares . . . all of them get hurt and fight back. Why? Why? Why? Because they love to play . . .

Ricky Henderson! Worth millions! He was playing for free in Brockton, MA not to long ago just because he loves the game.

I couldn't disagree with this more.

drunkpirate66 wrote:

popcornjack wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:*and the players you listed were not the average ball players by the way.

No, they weren't, but Jack (whom I quoted) was talking about the Ken Burns series and his reference *was* about the average...

Fair enough . . . just going by what you said.

Now, I am very curious . . . when did things change? Around what year. I honestly don't see a difference . . . but if you do I would really like to know when players stopped loving baseball?

Well, dillweed, (you have totally brought that on yourself. ) if you read my quote, you'll see that it says Ken Burns mentions that it's after 1975.

I did your quote, Slappy Nuts, and all that mentioned was money. Last thing I will say about this is I disagree with the notion that if someone makes more money or tons of money or whatever qualifier you want to put on "money" that does not mean they don't love what they do. I think porfessional baseball players have A. Always loved playing and B. were always regarded as above the common man in society (unless you go back to the WWI days and before). Look at the 1927 Yankees . . . every player on that team was worshipped by fans around the world and they were wearing clothes normal people couldn't afford, eating at restaurants normal people couldn't afford, staying in hotels and traveling to places normal people couldn't afford (buying girls normal people couldn't afford . . . high end alcohol and cigars . . . not part of the norm - BUT they loved the game).

I f aguy today makes 2 million a year . . . not A Rod, Jeter, or Manny money. He could play baseball for 1 or 2 years and retire. He would own homes and cars and could pay for his kids college and eat well. So why don't they do this? I don't know anyone who has done this . . . why? Because they love to play. A Rod has made close to a half a billion dollars (like Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan) they keep playing. Jordan even came back well past his prime because he loves the game. Look at guys like Maddux and Glavine . . . Jeter . . . Pedro Martinez . . . Vlad . . . Ivan Rodiguez . . . all multi millionares . . . all of them get hurt and fight back. Why? Why? Why? Because they love to play . . .

Ricky Henderson! Worth millions! He was playing for free in Brockton, MA not to long ago just because he loves the game.

I couldn't disagree with this more.

love the game, or just can't do without the adulation? Applause from 45k folks in a stadium or 20k in an arena can be addictive too

RinglingRingling wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

popcornjack wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:*and the players you listed were not the average ball players by the way.

No, they weren't, but Jack (whom I quoted) was talking about the Ken Burns series and his reference *was* about the average...

Fair enough . . . just going by what you said.

Now, I am very curious . . . when did things change? Around what year. I honestly don't see a difference . . . but if you do I would really like to know when players stopped loving baseball?

Well, dillweed, (you have totally brought that on yourself. ) if you read my quote, you'll see that it says Ken Burns mentions that it's after 1975.

I did your quote, Slappy Nuts, and all that mentioned was money. Last thing I will say about this is I disagree with the notion that if someone makes more money or tons of money or whatever qualifier you want to put on "money" that does not mean they don't love what they do. I think porfessional baseball players have A. Always loved playing and B. were always regarded as above the common man in society (unless you go back to the WWI days and before). Look at the 1927 Yankees . . . every player on that team was worshipped by fans around the world and they were wearing clothes normal people couldn't afford, eating at restaurants normal people couldn't afford, staying in hotels and traveling to places normal people couldn't afford (buying girls normal people couldn't afford . . . high end alcohol and cigars . . . not part of the norm - BUT they loved the game).

I f aguy today makes 2 million a year . . . not A Rod, Jeter, or Manny money. He could play baseball for 1 or 2 years and retire. He would own homes and cars and could pay for his kids college and eat well. So why don't they do this? I don't know anyone who has done this . . . why? Because they love to play. A Rod has made close to a half a billion dollars (like Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan) they keep playing. Jordan even came back well past his prime because he loves the game. Look at guys like Maddux and Glavine . . . Jeter . . . Pedro Martinez . . . Vlad . . . Ivan Rodiguez . . . all multi millionares . . . all of them get hurt and fight back. Why? Why? Why? Because they love to play . . .

Ricky Henderson! Worth millions! He was playing for free in Brockton, MA not to long ago just because he loves the game.

I couldn't disagree with this more.

love the game, or just can't do without the adulation? Applause from 45k folks in a stadium or 20k in an arena can be addictive too

That I won't argue . . . but same could be said for ball players in the 1920s as well . . . and in every other decade. People think ball players have changed because of money and I disagree. I think the boys have always loved to play and that will never change. And, of course, they have always loved the applause . . .

I guess this is what happens when I don't read far enough back. When I brought up the Ken Burns quote, I was only doing it to reference the salary then vs now. I was not using it to question whether players now don't love the game.

Isn't there a Tony Romo thread around here somewhere......

popcornjack wrote:I guess this is what happens when I don't read far enough back. When I brought up the Ken Burns quote, I was only doing it to reference the salary then vs now. I was not using it to question whether players now don't love the game.

Isn't there a Tony Romo thread around here somewhere......

I would say the salary quote is valid. They may love the game still, but the money being what it is, and the wider access to adulation.. at least for the narcissitic whores like Ramirez, or "the (roid)Rocket", there are a lot more factors driving them.

RinglingRingling wrote:

popcornjack wrote:I guess this is what happens when I don't read far enough back. When I brought up the Ken Burns quote, I was only doing it to reference the salary then vs now. I was not using it to question whether players now don't love the game.

Isn't there a Tony Romo thread around here somewhere......

I would say the salary quote is valid. They may love the game still, but the money being what it is, and the wider access to adulation.. at least for the narcissitic whores like Ramirez, or "the (roid)Rocket", there are a lot more factors driving them.

I am not proud of this but I played many sports in high school and there is a certain arrogance that is developed even on at the varsity level that thousands of kids make every year. I can't even imagine the arrogance a college phenom feels whether they act humble or not. If they get signed to a minor league deal or go right to the professional level in the NBA, NFL, MLS, or NHL that has just got to be huge . . . and then the applause and the subsequent fame and then the money (I imagine a guy back in the late 20's . . . the economy sucks and this guy is making maybe in low thousands playing ball . . . the clubhouse went out for a nice steak dinner at some fancy restuaruant in the city and then back to their fancy hotel where people's heads are turning as he walks by as one of his high school friends or whoever spent 12 hours on a farm back home for less money - - - - ) . . . I won't argue it. Narcissitic whores, indeed. It is the way it has always been. And it will never change.

You? Arrogant?? Naaaaaaah.

(I'm so getting punched square in the throat in Newport, aren't I?? )

popcornjack wrote:You? Arrogant?? Naaaaaaah.

(I'm so getting punched square in the throat in Newport, aren't I?? )

better than kicked in the groin I suppose.

I think Yankee fans will be Happy with Bay as well. I certainly don't see him hitting .465 against them over the next 6 years.

Clintster7 wrote:I think Yankee fans will be Happy with Bay as well. I certainly don't see him hitting .465 against them over the next 6 years.

Nor do I see close to 900 rbi over the next 7.5 years. Red Sox got bullied no doubt about it.

I would have loved to see them keep Manny. Pick up his option for the next two years and let him whine and not play until he got fined and fined and fined . . . he did sign a contract after all. Oh well . . . Sox had him when he was great. Next four years will be good but no longer Manny in his prime type numbers.

RinglingRingling wrote:

popcornjack wrote:You? Arrogant?? Naaaaaaah.

(I'm so getting punched square in the throat in Newport, aren't I?? )

better than kicked in the groin I suppose.

I am actually quite passive. Except for those lousy tree hugging liberals! how I loathe them . . .

(I actually planted a tree with my dad yesterday . . . and then I picked blue berries . . . but I still loathe those liberals! . . . . )

Scott Boras' ego claims another victim. Up until last year, if asked, Manny would say that he planned to retire to the DR when this contract was up. Suddenly Manny plans to play until he's 40. $20M/yr isn't enough. Boras doesn't get paid until Manny gets a new contract, so how does he avoid the Sox picking up those options? Convince Manny he is worth even more on the open market, so that he'll become unwanted in Boston. It's A-ROD all over again.

It's too bad only 22 of the Dodgers' 51 games are at home. Think of the adventures Manny can have in that huge LF. The Fenway HRs that are long outs in Chavez Ravine. LA fans better enjoy Manny this year because he will get out of that hitter's nightmare as fast as he can once the season is over.

Where will Manny wind up next year?