Hackers buy tickets before you: Report

Mo2 · Post by **Mo2** » March 12, 2008 1:33 am

Looks like this is still a problem!

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/ ... 73&k=31763

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/story ... ba&k=98128

palmettopirate · Post by **palmettopirate** » March 12, 2008 11:56 am

Of particular interest is this guys comments.

"Keith ReztonFri, Feb 29, 08 at 01:35 PM
Let's clear up what this story means by 'hacking'. People, like myself, who want to get tickets before the general public will author software that runs on a single, or group of machines connected to the Internet. Their internal clocks are synchronized exactly to the ticketmaster clocks, so when 10am comes around and tickets for an event come on sale, these machines will immediately access the ticketmaster system. Acting like a normal ticket buyer they will automatically click through the ticket buying process in about 3 to 6 seconds repeatedly buying up the best tickets for any event. TIcketmaster has tried to counteract this by employing various measures such as CAPTCHA technolog, IP tracking and credit card maximums. However their CAPTCHA has a flaw and is easily circumvented. The IP tracking can be overcome by utilizing a cluster of machines connected to various networks. And credit card maximums are defeated by just using an array of credit cards with different billing addresses such as your parents house, girlfriends house, work, etc... Is this unfair? Sure it is, as most people do not have the skill-set to design and make these automatic buying systems. However, that is capitalism for you, and we live in a capitalist society."

Give me a break. This guy just made the biggest argument against capitalism. The way he spells capitalism is g-r-e-e-d. His practice would make some argue that a higher power should get involved, and there goes capitalism right out the window. If big brother gets involved, at least in the USA, these guys will be hollering like crazy, but they can blame themselves.

msu#1 · Post by **msu#1** » March 12, 2008 1:45 pm

Dont ask, dont tell.

Just proves once again that alot of shady things go on with tickets and the worst thing to happen to concerts was the internet. Not only do you have to deal with the brokers you have wannabes in the system now selling to brokers, ebay and stub hub.

and Attorney Generals who wont even enforce the laws on the books.

Its pretty bad when someone uses their real name in a article and says yeah I hack into ticketmaster(a crime) and dont care who knows it. How many people have their info stolen by hackers on ticketmaster? Im sure the number will go up and then maybe something will be done.

ParrotheadPeteNJ · Post by **ParrotheadPeteNJ** » March 12, 2008 2:20 pm

MSU-spending to much time at the hoops and basketball games vs. class?
With the advent of eBay and Stubhub you now have "amateurs" that compete against the big brokers whose methods obviously must be curbed (by thge was Ticketmaster has now bought Tickets Now-one of the biggest ticket brokers and eBay now owns Stubhub).

These evil "amateurs' are your average joe with a bit of a background in tickets (paying for their shows) -and do the tickets thing as a hobby vs. a profession. Most are happy to make a few bucks per transaction vs megabucks. Many (and I know people who do this) check the prices on Stubhub and eBay and underprice
the big brokers.

This is just plain supply and demand-if you have more people selling tickets it tends to lower the resale price. I have met former brokers at shows sitting along side of me in the lesser seats who stopped selling due to the increased competition.

What needs to be done is to prevent these big brokers using the software as described above (and Ticketmaster did issue one injunction against a software company recently) and prevent abuses with box office personal which is rampant.

Trust me with gas at $3 plus and the economy chugging along not too many are making a killing. I can find tickets even in good markets for many of the top summer tours-Jimmy, Billy Joel and Bruce-at or even below cost. With the advent of auctions for premium seats, regular venue season subscribers, box office abuses and the software thing the best seats sans fan clubs (a great way to get decent tickets-or tickets at all) are tougher than ever. You have to learn the venues, markets and performers, absorb advice (plenty give out on this board) and be a good consumer. That includes dragging your butt out of bed early on a Saturday moring (I go to sleep an average of 5:30AM myself)
to purchase tickets a the onset of the onsale- or at least keep track of onsales. You can also take your vacations in lesser ticket markets-for the Hanna Montana tour one could put a vacation together in a lesser markets (and for Hanah Montana the lesser markets were Vegas and Orlando!) (hotel, airfare) for what the tickets in the most expensive markets are selling for. My friends and I plan to hit 3 Springsteen shows over 4 days in Florida in April-where we landed some top tickets-and when hotel prices are minimal (there are travel clubs and discount guides if you look).

There are lots of strategies you can uses-many discussed on here-you need to learn an d be proactive about learnng the ins ands outs of tickets. I gained a lot of my knowledge being a big Bruce fan-Bruce, at least in his top selling years, was the toughest tickets around. There weren't much tougher tickets in the past than tickets for Bruce on the East coast.

msu#1 · Post by **msu#1** » March 12, 2008 6:21 pm

ParrotheadPeteNJ wrote:MSU-spending to much time at the hoops and basketball games vs. class?
With the advent of eBay and Stubhub you now have "amateurs" that compete against the big brokers whose methods obviously must be curbed (by thge was Ticketmaster has now bought Tickets Now-one of the biggest ticket brokers and eBay now owns Stubhub).

These evil "amateurs' are your average joe with a bit of a background in tickets (paying for their shows) -and do the tickets thing as a hobby vs. a profession. Most are happy to make a few bucks per transaction vs megabucks. Many (and I know people who do this) check the prices on Stubhub and eBay and underprice
the big brokers.

This is just plain supply and demand-if you have more people selling tickets it tends to lower the resale price. I have met former brokers at shows sitting along side of me in the lesser seats who stopped selling due to the increased competition.

What needs to be done is to prevent these big brokers using the software as described above (and Ticketmaster did issue one injunction against a software company recently) and prevent abuses with box office personal which is rampant.

Trust me with gas at $3 plus and the economy chugging along not too many are making a killing. I can find tickets even in good markets for many of the top summer tours-Jimmy, Billy Joel and Bruce-at or even below cost. With the advent of auctions for premium seats, regular venue season subscribers, box office abuses and the software thing the best seats sans fan clubs (a great way to get decent tickets-or tickets at all) are tougher than ever. You have to learn the venues, markets and performers, absorb advice (plenty give out on this board) and be a good consumer. That includes dragging your butt out of bed early on a Saturday moring (I go to sleep an average of 5:30AM myself)
to purchase tickets a the onset of the onsale- or at least keep track of onsales. You can also take your vacations in lesser ticket markets-for the Hanna Montana tour one could put a vacation together in a lesser markets (and for Hanah Montana the lesser markets were Vegas and Orlando!) (hotel, airfare) for what the tickets in the most expensive markets are selling for. My friends and I plan to hit 3 Springsteen shows over 4 days in Florida in April-where we landed some top tickets-and when hotel prices are minimal (there are travel clubs and discount guides if you look).

There are lots of strategies you can uses-many discussed on here-you need to learn an d be proactive about learnng the ins ands outs of tickets. I gained a lot of my knowledge being a big Bruce fan-Bruce, at least in his top selling years, was the toughest tickets around. There weren't much tougher tickets in the past than tickets for Bruce on the East coast.

Dont give me a lesson with 50 posts. lol

I get most of my tickets from Bn. I know all the tricks. I even know a person from another board who owns theticketmachine, a broker site in Michigan that bought 200 tickets in under a minute last year for a show. I think its pathetic and tell the guy that all the time.

and its not Supply and Demand!!! If all tickets were available to the public then yes it would be, but when more than 50 % of tickets are sold before the onsale date and then brokers, ebay and stub hub users are back online with the public. It becomes almost a monopoly for the resellers. The secondary market owns most of the tickets and they set the price, not the general market

Skibo · Post by **Skibo** » March 12, 2008 7:35 pm

A true Buffett fan would be happy to pay a broker to get tickets.

rumdrinks · Post by **rumdrinks** » March 12, 2008 9:45 pm

This is why ALL ticket sales should go back to standing in line overnight, period.

Post by **SMLCHNG** » March 12, 2008 9:50 pm

rumdrinks wrote:This is why ALL ticket sales should go back to standing in line overnight, period.

That just would be nearly impossible in this day and age. Most folks can't take time off of work, outlets that sell the tickets could never handle the crowds.

rumdrinks · Post by **rumdrinks** » March 12, 2008 10:21 pm

SMLCHNG wrote:
rumdrinks wrote:This is why ALL ticket sales should go back to standing in line overnight, period.
That just would be nearly impossible in this day and age. Most folks can't take time off of work, outlets that sell the tickets could never handle the crowds.

It wasn't that many years ago that tickets could only be bought at ticket outlets. If I remember correctly, they always went on sale on a Saturday, so most people would be off and as for the crowds, I never remember there being a crowd (meaning more than 50 people tops). Once they went to a lottery system ( to discourage people from showing up at 2 or 3 am) you could always take 2 or 3 people and spread out in the line in case they did a lottery.
As far as people having to take off from work, that doesn't seem to stop people when tickets go on sale on Weekdays now.

ragtopW · Post by **ragtopW** » March 12, 2008 11:10 pm

SMLCHNG wrote:
rumdrinks wrote:This is why ALL ticket sales should go back to standing in line overnight, period.
That just would be nearly impossible in this day and age. Most folks can't take time off of work, outlets that sell the tickets could never handle the crowds.

AND..

There are those of us who do not live near a TM outlet..

beachbum13 · Post by **beachbum13** » March 12, 2008 11:22 pm

A true Buffett fan would be happy to pay a broker to get tickets

I have done it but I was never Happy to have to do it!!!

ParrotheadPeteNJ · Post by **ParrotheadPeteNJ** » March 13, 2008 1:14 am

MSU-you complain but you never reported your broker friend to anyone?
It may not be illegal but there are lots of "Spritzer" wannbes out there...

Agreed on the monopolistic thing though-especially in these days after Ticketmaster purchased a leading broker-and has their own premium auctions. last year the Yankees banned those who they found selling on Stubhub and eBay-and now have their own resell market. The preceding is why I have no trouble with the average Joe selling his extras on an ebay or Stubhub-or

I disagree with the market having little power-I notice that when gas approaches $3 (pretty much the whole country now) the ticket resale market tanks. Except for top seats (maybe that's where there is pricing power) I am not seeing average tickets for Jimmy, Bruce, Billy Joel and Petty being sold much above cost if that. Like houses and rent you can sell for anything-whether one pays is another story.

ParrotheadPeteNJ · Post by **ParrotheadPeteNJ** » March 13, 2008 1:28 am

Ironically in the years before Ticketmaster went pretty much online the online thing was real inefficient. When ticketmaster first came about (and I have a box office manager at the Meadowlands who basically supports my belief if not fact that Ticketmaster obtained all the old "Tickettron" accounts in the New York area after a slow (computers) disasterous, corrupt (yes, radio shows on it an all) 1984 Bruce Springsteen "Born In The USA" ticket sale in the NJ/NY area. Ticketmaster came into existence for the 2nd leg of that tour and though many of us spent the same 12-16 hours in line for Ticketmaster (2nd leg) if was because the sale was announced ahead of time for a Saturday and everyone waited overnight. When the sales went live they processed 100+ (vs 20) in the 1st hour-because it was cash only.

Cut to 1999 and Ticketmaster outets were a mess. For the Bruce reunion tour the local mom and pop outlets had been replaced by places such as "The Wiz" that were not local. Credit cards were now accepted so Ticketmaster was processing 5 people per hour! For that onsale day I remember being #50 on line only to go nowhere after 3-4 hours. I traveled to another outlet 45 minutes away only to encounter a similar line. Luckily Ticketmaster kept adding shows and after getting a tip around 4:30PM-9+ hours later-I went home, got through and landed 3rd and 4th row seats for two shows and mediocre tickets for else. I spent a month on a Springsteen trading site like Buffettnews has and was able to obtain seats to most of the shows I wanted.

The way I look at it now I may not get the top seats but I now know the phones and internet enough to get tickets in most cases. The internet makes it simple to find tickets and guage the market if I do not obtain. My friends and I can strategize and to some extent my friend and I are rewarded for our "experience (ordering strategy, fanclubs, yada). At worse I don't get tickets but I don't have to leave my house and can stay in my jammies!

beachbum13 · Post by **beachbum13** » March 13, 2008 3:43 am

Two things Springsteen does now to help battle scalpers. ZAt least in the NE. He has un scheduled ticket drops. Some right up to the day of the show. So if you don't get tickets you keep trying instead of hit the local scalper. You can even hit the venue the day of. Except for the last show at Shea on the Rising tour he released ticket, GOOD ticket the day of the show online and at the venue. The other thing he did on the Rising tour. Three shows at the Linc in Philly, ten shows at Giants Stadium and three shows at Shea. Plus show in Hartford, Boston, Washington and several other NE cities. He flooded the market. The really good seats still commanded a decent price but you could scalp tickets for most shows at cost at the shows.

Another approach is used by the Rolling Stones. Charge scalpers prices for you seats in the first place. Scalpers can get the same profit ratio for ticket that are released for $300, $200 and $100 for nose bleeds. I got 2 extra 16th row seats for $300 @ Wachovia by mistake. Ate them unable to sell them for face!!! At the show scalpers were selling better seats than mine for a loss!

Bottom line to me it all sucks. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. The artists and scalpers always seem to win... IMO

palmettopirate · Post by **palmettopirate** » March 13, 2008 8:54 am

You wrote"Dont give me a lesson with 50 posts. lol

I get most of my tickets from Bn. I know all the tricks. I even know a person from another board who owns theticketmachine, a broker site in Michigan that bought 200 tickets in under a minute last year for a show. I think its pathetic and tell the guy that all the time.

and its not Supply and Demand!!! If all tickets were available to the public then yes it would be, but when more than 50 % of tickets are sold before the onsale date and then brokers, ebay and stub hub users are back online with the public. It becomes almost a monopoly for the resellers. The secondary market owns most of the tickets and they set the price, not the general market"

You're wasting your breath. You're dealing with folks whose devotion level to Jimmy is so high that they wouldn't care if the KKK or gestapo were buying and reselling tickets. Their bottom line is, "Hey, you ought to be happy to get a ticket from anybody at any price to see Jimmy."
_________________

ScarletB · Post by **ScarletB** » March 13, 2008 9:10 am

ragtopW wrote:
SMLCHNG wrote:
rumdrinks wrote:This is why ALL ticket sales should go back to standing in line overnight, period.
That just would be nearly impossible in this day and age. Most folks can't take time off of work, outlets that sell the tickets could never handle the crowds.
AND..

There are those of us who do not live near a TM outlet..

Me too - we had one but when Macy's took over Filene's they took it out.
The nearest one is several hours away.

beachbum13 · Post by **beachbum13** » March 13, 2008 9:19 am

How cool would it be if you could go to show with 35,000 "real" Parrotheads who all paid face for their tickets.

Guess it would be even cooler the smaller the venue was....

lovin_jimmy · Post by **lovin_jimmy** » March 13, 2008 9:37 am

Skibo wrote:A true Buffett fan would be happy to pay a broker to get tickets.

so i guess only people who can afford it are true fans?
not all "true buffett fans" can afford to pay a broker. i really hope you are being sarcastic

why should someone be happy to pay inflated prices just because they are a true fan? does this theory apply to all things?
I am sure we are all true fans of eating, would we be happy to pay $300.00 for a burger? don't think so.

palmettopirate · Post by **palmettopirate** » March 13, 2008 9:42 am

"How cool would it be if you could go to show with 35,000 "real" Parrotheads who all paid face for their tickets.

Guess it would be even cooler the smaller the venue was...."

Bingo! What lots of people forget is that thousands of fans don't have access to the internet. They're at the mercy of hearing about shows through old-fahsioned channels. Then they have to get on the phone or travel to a ticket outlet to try to find tickets. Sad. As much as I appreciate the internet and high-speed communications, it does eliminate some people from getting to see shows. By the time the news gets to them it's just too late. Yeah, I know what some people would say, "Too bad."

palmettopirate · Post by **palmettopirate** » March 13, 2008 9:57 am

"Skibo wrote:
A true Buffett fan would be happy to pay a broker to get tickets.

so i guess only people who can afford it are true fans?
not all "true buffett fans" can afford to pay a broker. i really hope you are being sarcastic
why should someone be happy to pay inflated prices just because they are a true fan? does this theory apply to all things?
I am sure we are all true fans of eating, would we be happy to pay $300.00 for a burger? don't think so."

I'm sure Skibo is kidding around, but sadly that attitude does exist. And that's a shame for "true" Buffett fans. You see discussions on BN with pleas for thoughts and prayers during crises including medical problems, deaths, emotional problems, marital problems, job problems, etc. And it seems Buffett fans are very caring and benevolent. But when it comes to this ticket mess some fans fall right into that IGMFU attitude. I don't get it.

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