US Financial Bailout Plan

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Post by ScarletB »

Lightning Bolt wrote:
12vmanRick wrote:This crisis was caused by political correctness being forced on the mortgage lending industry in the Clinton era.

Before the Democrats' affirmative action lending policies became an embarrassment, the Los Angeles Times reported that, starting in 1992, a majority-Democratic Congress "mandated that Fannie and Freddie increase their purchases of mortgages for low-income and medium-income borrowers. Operating under that requirement, Fannie Mae, in particular, has been aggressive and creative in stimulating minority gains."

Under Clinton, the entire federal government put massive pressure on banks to grant more mortgages to the poor and minorities. Clinton's secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Andrew Cuomo, investigated Fannie Mae for racial discrimination and proposed that 50 percent of Fannie Mae's and Freddie Mac's portfolio be made up of loans to low- to moderate-income borrowers by the year 2001.

Instead of looking at "outdated criteria," such as the mortgage applicant's credit history and ability to make a down payment, banks were encouraged to consider nontraditional measures of credit-worthiness, such as having a good jump shot or having a missing child named "Caylee."

Threatening lawsuits, Clinton's Federal Reserve demanded that banks treat welfare payments and unemployment benefits as valid income sources to qualify for a mortgage. That isn't a joke -- it's a fact.

When Democrats controlled both the executive and legislative branches, political correctness was given a veto over sound business practices.

In 1999, liberals were bragging about extending affirmative action to the financial sector. Los Angeles Times reporter Ron Brownstein hailed the Clinton administration's affirmative action lending policies as one of the "hidden success stories" of the Clinton administration, saying that "black and Latino homeownership has surged to the highest level ever recorded."

Meanwhile, economists were screaming from the rooftops that the Democrats were forcing mortgage lenders to issue loans that would fail the moment the housing market slowed and deadbeat borrowers couldn't get out of their loans by selling their houses.

A decade later, the housing bubble burst and, as predicted, food-stamp-backed mortgages collapsed. Democrats set an affirmative action time-bomb and now it's gone off.
That could almost pass as a chapter of the story, but it leaves out the crucial final act of the play:
From the early part of this decade, Republicans pushed with their congressional majorities to further deregulate the banking systems.
Home ownership was a highly prioritized plank of the Bush administration, and with further lowered lending rates, (remember the refinance rush?)
mortgages were written for practically anyone, and it has been well-documented now that proof of income was not even a prerequisite.

Mortgage defaults were not simply a result of minorities being overrated, as is claimed in the clearly racist story above.
They were both the faults of lending institutions (and their brokers)
and by seemingly opportunistic buyers who somehow felt that the investment would be almost immediately rewarded by rapidly increased value.

Being in denial of this past decade of outright corporate and personal greed only highlights sheer incompetence towards the matter,
and allowing posts that look as if they are lifted from white supremecist writings should not be tolerated here. :x
Thank you LB, well said - mortgages are my livelihood, I work for a large bank, we make loans to all kinds of people with programs we know will help them succeed at homeownership. The brokers of this world were just in it to make a buck selling easy money for fast profits for themselves - they didn't give a rat's a** about their client. Greed ruled the day, no one was paying attention so they figured "Hey, why not?"

I am so angry I'm shaking.
I don't think a post has ever made me so furious.
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Post by flyboy55 »

12vmanRick wrote:This crisis was caused by political correctness being forced on the mortgage lending industry in the Clinton era.

Before the Democrats' affirmative action lending policies became an embarrassment, the Los Angeles Times reported that, starting in 1992, a majority-Democratic Congress "mandated that Fannie and Freddie increase their purchases of mortgages for low-income and medium-income borrowers. Operating under that requirement, Fannie Mae, in particular, has been aggressive and creative in stimulating minority gains."

Under Clinton, the entire federal government put massive pressure on banks to grant more mortgages to the poor and minorities. Clinton's secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Andrew Cuomo, investigated Fannie Mae for racial discrimination and proposed that 50 percent of Fannie Mae's and Freddie Mac's portfolio be made up of loans to low- to moderate-income borrowers by the year 2001.

Instead of looking at "outdated criteria," such as the mortgage applicant's credit history and ability to make a down payment, banks were encouraged to consider nontraditional measures of credit-worthiness, such as having a good jump shot or having a missing child named "Caylee."

Threatening lawsuits, Clinton's Federal Reserve demanded that banks treat welfare payments and unemployment benefits as valid income sources to qualify for a mortgage. That isn't a joke -- it's a fact.

When Democrats controlled both the executive and legislative branches, political correctness was given a veto over sound business practices.

In 1999, liberals were bragging about extending affirmative action to the financial sector. Los Angeles Times reporter Ron Brownstein hailed the Clinton administration's affirmative action lending policies as one of the "hidden success stories" of the Clinton administration, saying that "black and Latino homeownership has surged to the highest level ever recorded."

Meanwhile, economists were screaming from the rooftops that the Democrats were forcing mortgage lenders to issue loans that would fail the moment the housing market slowed and deadbeat borrowers couldn't get out of their loans by selling their houses.

A decade later, the housing bubble burst and, as predicted, food-stamp-backed mortgages collapsed. Democrats set an affirmative action time-bomb and now it's gone off.
Just for clarity (if nothing else) I think you should indicate when you are doing a 'cut and paste' from an article. The content of your post above comes from an article written by Ann Coulter. This isn't high school or college and in any case I'm not the plagiarism police, but I think you should have used quotes and provided a link like the following:

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/011497.html

Considering the article's original author and the fabrications (I'm being generous) that Ann Coulter has been found guilty of in the past, I don't think there is any point in trying to provide a rebuttal to her. :roll:
Last edited by flyboy55 on September 29, 2008 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Skibo »

flyboy55 wrote:
12vmanRick wrote:This crisis was caused by political correctness being forced on the mortgage lending industry in the Clinton era.

Before the Democrats' affirmative action lending policies became an embarrassment, the Los Angeles Times reported that, starting in 1992, a majority-Democratic Congress "mandated that Fannie and Freddie increase their purchases of mortgages for low-income and medium-income borrowers. Operating under that requirement, Fannie Mae, in particular, has been aggressive and creative in stimulating minority gains."

Under Clinton, the entire federal government put massive pressure on banks to grant more mortgages to the poor and minorities. Clinton's secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Andrew Cuomo, investigated Fannie Mae for racial discrimination and proposed that 50 percent of Fannie Mae's and Freddie Mac's portfolio be made up of loans to low- to moderate-income borrowers by the year 2001.

Instead of looking at "outdated criteria," such as the mortgage applicant's credit history and ability to make a down payment, banks were encouraged to consider nontraditional measures of credit-worthiness, such as having a good jump shot or having a missing child named "Caylee."

Threatening lawsuits, Clinton's Federal Reserve demanded that banks treat welfare payments and unemployment benefits as valid income sources to qualify for a mortgage. That isn't a joke -- it's a fact.

When Democrats controlled both the executive and legislative branches, political correctness was given a veto over sound business practices.

In 1999, liberals were bragging about extending affirmative action to the financial sector. Los Angeles Times reporter Ron Brownstein hailed the Clinton administration's affirmative action lending policies as one of the "hidden success stories" of the Clinton administration, saying that "black and Latino homeownership has surged to the highest level ever recorded."

Meanwhile, economists were screaming from the rooftops that the Democrats were forcing mortgage lenders to issue loans that would fail the moment the housing market slowed and deadbeat borrowers couldn't get out of their loans by selling their houses.

A decade later, the housing bubble burst and, as predicted, food-stamp-backed mortgages collapsed. Democrats set an affirmative action time-bomb and now it's gone off.
Just for clarity (if nothing else) I think you should indicate when you are doing a 'cut and paste' from an article. The content of your post above comes from an article written by Ann Coulter. This isn't high school or college and in any case I'm not the plagiarism police, but I think you should have used quotes and provided a link like the following:

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/011497.html

Considering the article's original author and the fabrications (I'm being generous) that Ann Coulter has been found guilty of in the past, I don't think there is any point in trying to provide a rebuttal. :roll:
We need to stop blaming Bill Clinton for every problem of the world.

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Post by Wino you know »

Skibo wrote:We need to stop blaming Bill Clinton for every problem of the world.

There I said it. Now I'm off to take a shower
And Bill Clinton needs to stop blaming the world for every one of HIS problems. :lol:
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Post by Lightning Bolt »

well, there it goes... slip, slipping......
:-? :-? :-?

Largest one-day drop (750+ points) in history
dropped further than Black Thursday of '87
dropped further than the days following 9/11.
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Post by sonofabeach »

I guess I really am just a redneck since don't know what any of this numbers stuff means but then again nor do I care to find out. I just hope it does not affect my beer intake :lol:
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Post by LIPH »

Lightning Bolt wrote:well, there it goes... slip, slipping......
:-? :-? :-?

Largest one-day drop (750+ points) in history
dropped further than Black Thursday of '87
dropped further than the days following 9/11.
Largest one day drop in total points but in terms of percentage of the market it isn't in the top 10. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but you have to put it in context. In 1929 the market only fell 33 points in one day but it was a 9% drop. The 777 point drop today was 7%.
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Post by Wino you know »

sonofabeach wrote:I guess I really am just a redneck ........
I knew there was SOMETHING I liked about you. :lol:
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Post by Lightning Bolt »

sonofabeach wrote:I guess I really am just a redneck since don't know what any of this numbers stuff means but then again nor do I care to find out. I just hope it does not affect my beer intake :lol:
I sincerely hope you don't have to find out that you've lost 1/3 of your retirement savings.
I truly hope it is really no worse than switching from Bud to Natty Light :o
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Post by Lightning Bolt »

LIPH wrote:
Lightning Bolt wrote:well, there it goes... slip, slipping......
:-? :-? :-?

Largest one-day drop (750+ points) in history
dropped further than Black Thursday of '87
dropped further than the days following 9/11.
Largest one day drop in total points but in terms of percentage of the market it isn't in the top 10. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but you have to put it in context. In 1929 the market only fell 33 points in one day but it was a 9% drop. The 777 point drop today was 7%.
.and what about tomorrow?

Today proved that even Republicans won't stand up for, or next to George W. Bush
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Post by LIPH »

Lightning Bolt wrote:
LIPH wrote:
Lightning Bolt wrote:well, there it goes... slip, slipping......
:-? :-? :-?

Largest one-day drop (750+ points) in history
dropped further than Black Thursday of '87
dropped further than the days following 9/11.
Largest one day drop in total points but in terms of percentage of the market it isn't in the top 10. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but you have to put it in context. In 1929 the market only fell 33 points in one day but it was a 9% drop. The 777 point drop today was 7%.
.and what about tomorrow?

Today proved that even Republicans won't stand up for, or next to George W. Bush
We still have a ways to go to match '87. The market fell 508 points in one day but that was over 22%, more than 3 times today's drop. In 5 days in 1987 the market lost about 30%. As much as people are saying this is the worst the economy has ever been, we're not there yet.
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Post by sonofabeach »

Lightning Bolt wrote: I truly hope it is really no worse than switching from Bud to Natty Light :o
Well I've been on Natty Light for years so maybe I'll have to take a step down from that...if that's even possible..:lol:
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Post by bumper »

Lightning Bolt wrote:
12vmanRick wrote:This crisis was caused by political correctness being forced on the mortgage lending industry in the Clinton era.

Before the Democrats' affirmative action lending policies became an embarrassment, the Los Angeles Times reported that, starting in 1992, a majority-Democratic Congress "mandated that Fannie and Freddie increase their purchases of mortgages for low-income and medium-income borrowers. Operating under that requirement, Fannie Mae, in particular, has been aggressive and creative in stimulating minority gains."

Under Clinton, the entire federal government put massive pressure on banks to grant more mortgages to the poor and minorities. Clinton's secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Andrew Cuomo, investigated Fannie Mae for racial discrimination and proposed that 50 percent of Fannie Mae's and Freddie Mac's portfolio be made up of loans to low- to moderate-income borrowers by the year 2001.

Instead of looking at "outdated criteria," such as the mortgage applicant's credit history and ability to make a down payment, banks were encouraged to consider nontraditional measures of credit-worthiness, such as having a good jump shot or having a missing child named "Caylee."

Threatening lawsuits, Clinton's Federal Reserve demanded that banks treat welfare payments and unemployment benefits as valid income sources to qualify for a mortgage. That isn't a joke -- it's a fact.

When Democrats controlled both the executive and legislative branches, political correctness was given a veto over sound business practices.

In 1999, liberals were bragging about extending affirmative action to the financial sector. Los Angeles Times reporter Ron Brownstein hailed the Clinton administration's affirmative action lending policies as one of the "hidden success stories" of the Clinton administration, saying that "black and Latino homeownership has surged to the highest level ever recorded."

Meanwhile, economists were screaming from the rooftops that the Democrats were forcing mortgage lenders to issue loans that would fail the moment the housing market slowed and deadbeat borrowers couldn't get out of their loans by selling their houses.

A decade later, the housing bubble burst and, as predicted, food-stamp-backed mortgages collapsed. Democrats set an affirmative action time-bomb and now it's gone off.
That could almost pass as a chapter of the story, but it leaves out the crucial final act of the play:
From the early part of this decade, Republicans pushed with their congressional majorities to further deregulate the banking systems.
Home ownership was a highly prioritized plank of the Bush administration, and with further lowered lending rates, (remember the refinance rush?)
mortgages were written for practically anyone, and it has been well-documented now that proof of income was not even a prerequisite.

Mortgage defaults were not simply a result of minorities being overrated, as is claimed in the clearly racist story above.
They were both the faults of lending institutions (and their brokers)
and by seemingly opportunistic buyers who somehow felt that the investment would be almost immediately rewarded by rapidly increased value.

Being in denial of this past decade of outright corporate and personal greed only highlights sheer incompetence towards the matter,
and allowing posts that look as if they are lifted from white supremecist writings should not be tolerated here. :x
The beauty of ownership allows the owner only to sanction that which he/she feels is distasteful. Fortunately the article stands as written and is there for the rest of who might have missed it on several other sites to educate ourselves to whatever degree we might choose.

I agree with Flyboy. Rick, if it was your goal to illustrate for the rest of us you and Coulter share similar thoughts then you've proven the point. But in fairness she wrote the article and deserves credit.

We had a couple good days last week where traders digested the no short gig jamped down their throats but even with the "bail out" locked and loaded this morning the futures were sharply down. Like dad has always said, "there is only one really bad SOB on the face of the earth and his name is reality"
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Post by SharkOnLand »

sonofabeach wrote:
Lightning Bolt wrote: I truly hope it is really no worse than switching from Bud to Natty Light :o
Well I've been on Natty Light for years so maybe I'll have to take a step down from that...if that's even possible..:lol:
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Post by Glorfindel7 »

My biggest problem here is that people are "bailing out" without giving the economy a chance to recover :evil: :evil: :evil:

So we have "greed" on top of anxiety on top of inflated value of stock market... There was BOUND to be a correction eventually..

I think one of the OTHER problems is that we let people who have NO idea how the market works dictate the prices (e.g. sites like etrade, etc.)

All of this said I'm STILL not in favor of the bailout because the only thing that will lead to is more of the same. I liken it to two things:

1. Lending money to a friend/family member (are you SURE we'll get it back once the economy's on its feet or is it more likely we'll hear more of the same later...)

2. The bank is like a big casino saying excuse me we ran out of money. Can you give us some more money so that we don't have to close??? In return, we'll let you keep playing with any other money you have...

And don't get me started on those CEO's, CFO's, CIO's and brokers :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Post by JustDucky »

The "collapse" and the so called bail out - if JB were to quit playing Brown Eyed Girl and Southern Cross every show none of this would have happened.
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Post by alaura1974 »

BFinnsUp wrote:I think I just want my 2000 Hot Apple Pies from McDonalds.



http://www.techpresident.com/blog/entry ... 00_billion
I saw that one...... personally I would rather have french fries...... is there a choice??

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Post by alaura1974 »

Glorfindel7 wrote:My biggest problem here is that people are "bailing out" without giving the economy a chance to recover :evil: :evil: :evil:

So we have "greed" on top of anxiety on top of inflated value of stock market... There was BOUND to be a correction eventually..

I think one of the OTHER problems is that we let people who have NO idea how the market works dictate the prices (e.g. sites like etrade, etc.)

All of this said I'm STILL not in favor of the bailout because the only thing that will lead to is more of the same. I liken it to two things:

1. Lending money to a friend/family member (are you SURE we'll get it back once the economy's on its feet or is it more likely we'll hear more of the same later...)

2. The bank is like a big casino saying excuse me we ran out of money. Can you give us some more money so that we don't have to close??? In return, we'll let you keep playing with any other money you have...

And don't get me started on those CEO's, CFO's, CIO's and brokers :evil: :evil: :evil:

did anyone else happen to catch Regis and Kelly yesterday?

They were talking about one of the higher ups... cant remember what the name of his position was..... but he came on board on approximately September 8th, got an almost 7 million dollar signing bonus, and 18 days later when all of this came crashing down, he received an almost 7 million dollar severance........................


14 million dollars for 18 days of work????????????????????

that makes my eyes bleed. :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Post by RinglingRingling »

alaura1974 wrote:
Glorfindel7 wrote:My biggest problem here is that people are "bailing out" without giving the economy a chance to recover :evil: :evil: :evil:

So we have "greed" on top of anxiety on top of inflated value of stock market... There was BOUND to be a correction eventually..

I think one of the OTHER problems is that we let people who have NO idea how the market works dictate the prices (e.g. sites like etrade, etc.)

All of this said I'm STILL not in favor of the bailout because the only thing that will lead to is more of the same. I liken it to two things:

1. Lending money to a friend/family member (are you SURE we'll get it back once the economy's on its feet or is it more likely we'll hear more of the same later...)

2. The bank is like a big casino saying excuse me we ran out of money. Can you give us some more money so that we don't have to close??? In return, we'll let you keep playing with any other money you have...

And don't get me started on those CEO's, CFO's, CIO's and brokers :evil: :evil: :evil:

did anyone else happen to catch Regis and Kelly yesterday?

They were talking about one of the higher ups... cant remember what the name of his position was..... but he came on board on approximately September 8th, got an almost 7 million dollar signing bonus, and 18 days later when all of this came crashing down, he received an almost 7 million dollar severance........................


14 million dollars for 18 days of work????????????????????

that makes my eyes bleed. :evil: :evil: :evil:
think of what he would have gotten if he'd have turned it around in that 3 weeks...
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Post by ScarletB »

alaura1974 wrote:
Glorfindel7 wrote:My biggest problem here is that people are "bailing out" without giving the economy a chance to recover :evil: :evil: :evil:

So we have "greed" on top of anxiety on top of inflated value of stock market... There was BOUND to be a correction eventually..

I think one of the OTHER problems is that we let people who have NO idea how the market works dictate the prices (e.g. sites like etrade, etc.)

All of this said I'm STILL not in favor of the bailout because the only thing that will lead to is more of the same. I liken it to two things:

1. Lending money to a friend/family member (are you SURE we'll get it back once the economy's on its feet or is it more likely we'll hear more of the same later...)

2. The bank is like a big casino saying excuse me we ran out of money. Can you give us some more money so that we don't have to close??? In return, we'll let you keep playing with any other money you have...

And don't get me started on those CEO's, CFO's, CIO's and brokers :evil: :evil: :evil:

did anyone else happen to catch Regis and Kelly yesterday?

They were talking about one of the higher ups... cant remember what the name of his position was..... but he came on board on approximately September 8th, got an almost 7 million dollar signing bonus, and 18 days later when all of this came crashing down, he received an almost 7 million dollar severance........................


14 million dollars for 18 days of work????????????????????

that makes my eyes bleed. :evil: :evil: :evil:
And they all act so surprised that they're getting so much mail against this thing.

I just watched a video of our Senator Bernie Sanders reading just a few of the thousands of emails he received from other Vermonters (he didn't read mine :-? ) lining up against the passage of the bill. Almost to a person they agreed that something needed to be done but that this rush to aid with a huge blank check was not the right thing. People here are furious that the asshats that made this mess will almost literally sail off into the sunset on their yachts.
Last edited by ScarletB on September 30, 2008 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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