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green1 wrote:

seminolegrl06 wrote:Sadly it is. The ideas you expound are totally appropriate for all americans to feel. I feel them everyday. However, this cannot be government legislated. The government is the least efficent vehicle to do anything in this country.

As a man of the cloth (as you describe yourself) you are more than familiar with private charity, community and church outreach. This is the way for citizens... who choose to help people to reach those who are in need.

Churches and community organizations are wonderful and can do so much to help this country.

I know I give my church 5,000 dollars to set a child care center and volunteer to work in it from time to time is much more of a help to society than giving tax and spend liberals money to investigate the eating habits of bears in montana.

The government taking our money doesn't equally everyone getting help... it equals the government getting bigger, having more controls, and giving us less freedom.

These are not talking points. They are serious concerns to me.

Obama comes out of a community and a thought that the government owes them something, that the world owes them something, that the only way to fix things are the big daddy government does it for you. Someone leading our country that thinks that is dangerous. For our world position, for our economic system, and for our personal freedom.

I don't want to pay for other people's healthcare. I just don't. It is not my obligation to. It is my obligation to take care of myself and my family. Children will die. It's an unfortunate part of the life cycle. I don't want it. In a free markey society there are winners and losers. The more winners the better and the more free the market the more oppertunity for everyone to be winners. Once people start taking care of themselves and take some personal resposnbility you will see more winners in the market. The winners do better, become secure in their winning, and than help those that need it through ways they feel comfortable.

The government is not that answer to everything.

What? A child dying, to you, is an unfortunate part of the life cycle?

We can talk politics, free markets, national defense and what is best for our country, but the day that this country truly believes that a dead child is simply a part of the life cycle is the day I help start a new country. Everything we do affects those around us, and we do the best we can, but we must realize that there are people our actions affect. If you don't believe universal healthcare is the answer, as I don't, then there must be some balance somewhere else to help those who will need help. For example a local church that collects donations to cover medical expenses for those in need. I am actually astounded at the callousness of that line.

It sounds worse than I ment. I care very much for children. I care very much for all american's well being. But "saving" every life is impossible. It's not a reality. Now should people receive care? sure. We can want to save every life. We can want everyone to never get sick. But the reality is people get sick, children get sick, elderly get sick, 24 year old girls get sick too and sometimes they die. That is the life cycle. We all don't live forever and sometimes because of genetics or freak accidents we all don't live until our hearts stop beating. It is not my government mandated obligation to provide healthcare for someone else. It can be my choice to help a family whose baby is sick at my church... which I of course have done.

As far as people asking me to call them. I would say that to you if you realized I didn't really mean what you are asking me to say. But I believe so strongly against barak obama I would take your vote. I guess you think it's because its a dare? I think it was being taken way out of context. I don't wish buffettbride's child any harm. I hope that medical attention is currently being given. I don't know details so I hesitate more to say more except that I hope all the best.

As far as the 'as you describe yourself' I said that because I do not know this person and was slightly unsure if he was mocking religion. I didn't mean any harm. I didn't mean any disrespect.

As far as the 'community' obama belongs to.... democrats. Democrats lean to a more socialist view of society. In which all members owe everyone the ability to be equal. and by that I mean financial and accessibilty. Not basic human rights.

I do think obama is very extreme. Although just because I am very concerned about his ties to radicals and terrorists doesn't mean I am not a rational person. There are plenty of democrat smear groups. The entire media is left leaning. Bill ayers is a domestic terrorist and obama was in his home. If you want a career in politics why would you ever do that? not withstanding the moral implications of being in the home of someone who bombed the capitol... who thinks that is a good political move... where is the common sense in that?! It's that line of thinking that has me questioning his reasoning skills.

seminolegrl06 wrote: Although just because I am very concerned about his ties to radicals and terrorists doesn't mean I am not a rational person. . . . Bill Ayers is a domestic terrorist and obama was in his home. If you want a career in politics why would you ever do that? not withstanding the moral implications of being in the home of someone who bombed the capitol... who thinks that is a good political move... where is the common sense in that?! It's that line of thinking that has me questioning his reasoning skills.

McCain has campaign advisers who worked on the same non-profit board as Ayers and Obama for education. These advisers will likely become some of his staff . . . I do not fear McCain has a terrorist agenda but if we're looking at guilt by association then . . .

Lightning Bolt wrote:

mjeischen wrote:I didn't feel McCain connecting with me at all and he kept calling me his friend . . .

agreed.
As far as preferring McCain, a 26-year veteran of Washington D.C., over the less experienced Obama,
this video from a past banking regulator ought to lend some REAL perspective about shady past relationships....

http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/keatingvideo

seminolegirl06 wrote:Bill Ayers WAS ONCE CONSIDERED a domestic terrorist and obama was in his home. If you want a career in politics why would you ever do that? not withstanding the moral implications of being in the home of someone who bombed the capitol... who thinks that is a good political move... where is the common sense in that?! It's that line of thinking that has me questioning his reasoning skills.

This mud has been thrown before, and it just doesn't stick...
Ayers is a well-regarded educator now.
If he is so dangerous, how is he is so widely respected and funded locally in educational circles, now?

take a look at REAL events that happened not so long ago...
http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/keatingvideo

It may run opposite of your view of the candidate, but it isn't some contrived BS "guilt by association" brought to you by Rush and Hannity.

Via Wikipedia - It is a well sourced passage so there is likely some merit to it. The term terrorist is being applied to a radical civil rights activist from the 60's. 30 years later he is a highly regarded community activist and educator . . .

Bill Ayers and Barack Obama at one time lived in the same neighborhood in the city of Chicago, and both had worked on education reform in the state of Illinois. The two met "at a luncheon meeting about school reform."[41] Obama was named to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge Project Board of Directors to oversee the distribution of grants in Chicago. Later in 1995, Ayers hosted "a coffee" for "Mr. Obama's first run for office."[42] The two served on the board of a community anti-poverty group, the Woods Fund of Chicago, between 2000 and 2002, during which time the board met twelve times.[42] In April 2001, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's re-election fund to the Illinois State Senate.[41] Since 2002, there has been little linking Obama and Ayers.[42] The senator said in September 2008 that he hadn't "seen him in a year-and-a-half."[43] In February 2008, Obama spokesman Bill Burton released a statement from the senator about the relationship between the two: "Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous."[41] CNN's review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the non-profit projects in which the two men were involved.[44] Internal reviews by The New York Times, The Washington Post, Time magazine, The Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The New Republic "have said that their reporting doesn't support the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship"

My parents smoked pot when they were younger but I've not linked them to any Mexican or Columbian drug cartels. . . YET!

seminolegrl06 wrote:

green1 wrote:

seminolegrl06 wrote:Sadly it is. The ideas you expound are totally appropriate for all americans to feel. I feel them everyday. However, this cannot be government legislated. The government is the least efficent vehicle to do anything in this country.

As a man of the cloth (as you describe yourself) you are more than familiar with private charity, community and church outreach. This is the way for citizens... who choose to help people to reach those who are in need.

Churches and community organizations are wonderful and can do so much to help this country.

I know I give my church 5,000 dollars to set a child care center and volunteer to work in it from time to time is much more of a help to society than giving tax and spend liberals money to investigate the eating habits of bears in montana.

The government taking our money doesn't equally everyone getting help... it equals the government getting bigger, having more controls, and giving us less freedom.

These are not talking points. They are serious concerns to me.

Obama comes out of a community and a thought that the government owes them something, that the world owes them something, that the only way to fix things are the big daddy government does it for you. Someone leading our country that thinks that is dangerous. For our world position, for our economic system, and for our personal freedom.

I don't want to pay for other people's healthcare. I just don't. It is not my obligation to. It is my obligation to take care of myself and my family. Children will die. It's an unfortunate part of the life cycle. I don't want it. In a free markey society there are winners and losers. The more winners the better and the more free the market the more oppertunity for everyone to be winners. Once people start taking care of themselves and take some personal resposnbility you will see more winners in the market. The winners do better, become secure in their winning, and than help those that need it through ways they feel comfortable.

The government is not that answer to everything.

What? A child dying, to you, is an unfortunate part of the life cycle?

We can talk politics, free markets, national defense and what is best for our country, but the day that this country truly believes that a dead child is simply a part of the life cycle is the day I help start a new country. Everything we do affects those around us, and we do the best we can, but we must realize that there are people our actions affect. If you don't believe universal healthcare is the answer, as I don't, then there must be some balance somewhere else to help those who will need help. For example a local church that collects donations to cover medical expenses for those in need. I am actually astounded at the callousness of that line.

It sounds worse than I ment. I care very much for children. I care very much for all american's well being. But "saving" every life is impossible. It's not a reality. Now should people receive care? sure. We can want to save every life. We can want everyone to never get sick. But the reality is people get sick, children get sick, elderly get sick, 24 year old girls get sick too and sometimes they die. That is the life cycle. We all don't live forever and sometimes because of genetics or freak accidents we all don't live until our hearts stop beating. It is not my government mandated obligation to provide healthcare for someone else. It can be my choice to help a family whose baby is sick at my church... which I of course have done.

As far as people asking me to call them. I would say that to you if you realized I didn't really mean what you are asking me to say. But I believe so strongly against barak obama I would take your vote. I guess you think it's because its a dare? I think it was being taken way out of context. I don't wish buffettbride's child any harm. I hope that medical attention is currently being given. I don't know details so I hesitate more to say more except that I hope all the best.

As far as the 'as you describe yourself' I said that because I do not know this person and was slightly unsure if he was mocking religion. I didn't mean any harm. I didn't mean any disrespect.

As far as the 'community' obama belongs to.... democrats. Democrats lean to a more socialist view of society. In which all members owe everyone the ability to be equal. and by that I mean financial and accessibilty. Not basic human rights.

I do think obama is very extreme. Although just because I am very concerned about his ties to radicals and terrorists doesn't mean I am not a rational person. There are plenty of democrat smear groups. The entire media is left leaning. Bill ayers is a domestic terrorist and obama was in his home. If you want a career in politics why would you ever do that? not withstanding the moral implications of being in the home of someone who bombed the capitol... who thinks that is a good political move... where is the common sense in that?! It's that line of thinking that has me questioning his reasoning skills.

This was the line that really got me. Really? What "community" would it be that you speak of? You didn't say "the Democratic party" or "comes from a party that....." your choice of words is interesting.

And Bill Ayers hasn't bombed anything in 30 years. There are a lot of solid citizens who back in the 60's screamed and demonstrated and threw things at the police and yes, probably made small bombs in their basements. I lived through that time and I was a neat little college Republican just like you - and when I look back on it now I'M the one who is ashamed of my behavior during that time. I was too naive to know that THAT war was a big mistake just like Iraq. I feel like I should have helped do something that finally brought them all home.

seminolegrl06 wrote:It's that line of thinking that has me questioning his reasoning skills.

I think it's your reasoning skills that should be questioned. I mean, two other people who generally lean to the right politically are calling you out on how ridiculous your notions about Obama are. I'd really like to at least respect your opinion, but it is really difficult when I'm pretty certain your notions of Obama aren't really thoughts you came up with on your own. You seriously sound like one of the freaky people on the scary Sarah Palin site who are actually hoping McCain wouldn't make it through his term so her royal Alaskaness can rule the free world.

The daily Gallop poll has Obama at 52% and McCain at 41%. This is a significant lead.

I just started catching up on this thread, but here is a my thought for what it is worth...

There is a lot of discussion on Bill Ayers. Bill Ayers was an idiot! I am all for protesting, questioning the governments actions and motives, and civil disobedience. I have marched on Washington on more than one occasion and regularly email my representatives from the local, state, and federal levels. However, at no time is violence ok. Period, end of discussion. However, America is a land of second chances. If people want to hold Ayers against Obama then equal discussion needs to be put towards McCain's involvement with Charles Keating. In this case it was not his association with someone that did something wrong but his actions that are in question. The financial crisis is just as big a problem as terrorism. Can McCain's judgement on such issues be trusted?

buffettbride wrote:

seminolegrl06 wrote:It's that line of thinking that has me questioning his reasoning skills.

I think it's your reasoning skills that should be questioned. I mean, two other people who generally lean to the right politically are calling you out on how ridiculous your notions about Obama are. I'd really like to at least respect your opinion, but it is really difficult when I'm pretty certain your notions of Obama aren't really thoughts you came up with on your own. You seriously sound like one of the freaky people on the scary Sarah Palin site who are actually hoping McCain wouldn't make it through his term so her royal Alaskaness can rule the free world.

I hope that you are not referring to me as one of the two who are "calling her out on how ridiculous her notions are about Obama". Because I never said anything of the sort. She made a comment which I found completely inappropriate and I called her on that comment. That's it.

green1 wrote:

buffettbride wrote:

seminolegrl06 wrote:It's that line of thinking that has me questioning his reasoning skills.

I think it's your reasoning skills that should be questioned. I mean, two other people who generally lean to the right politically are calling you out on how ridiculous your notions about Obama are. I'd really like to at least respect your opinion, but it is really difficult when I'm pretty certain your notions of Obama aren't really thoughts you came up with on your own. You seriously sound like one of the freaky people on the scary Sarah Palin site who are actually hoping McCain wouldn't make it through his term so her royal Alaskaness can rule the free world.

I hope that you are not referring to me as one of the two who are "calling her out on how ridiculous her notions are about Obama". Because I never said anything of the sort. She made a comment which I found completely inappropriate and I called her on that comment. That's it.

When I re-read what I said I thought it my be interpreted that way. What I really meant is two other right-leaning people thought she was talking crazy talk. Didn't mean for it to imply you were down with Obama. When I read what I originally wrote, it probably sounds that way.

Lightning Bolt wrote:This mud has been thrown before, and it just doesn't stick...
Ayers is a well-regarded educator now.
If he is so dangerous, how is he is so widely respected and funded locally in educational circles, now?

You just answered your own question.

I fault Palin for not putting a stop to the "kill him" shoutout earlier this week in Florida.

Boos, hisses and making noise is one thing ... calling for an opponent's death cannot be tolerated. She should have turned to that part of the crowd where the shout came from and shut it down. Immediately.

And, if she didn't hear it, she's sure enough heard the reports about it and should admonish her audiences to restrain from further calls for death.

We have the right to shout and holler. We cross the line when we call for someone's death ... especially not this year ... 1963 and 1968 are not history to me ... I lived through them.

Wino you know wrote:

Lightning Bolt wrote:This mud has been thrown before, and it just doesn't stick...
Ayers is a well-regarded educator now.
If he is so dangerous, how is he is so widely respected and funded locally in educational circles, now?

You just answered your own question.

Good one I totally agree

East Texas Parrothead wrote:I fault Palin for not putting a stop to the "kill him" shoutout earlier this week in Florida.

Boos, hisses and making noise is one thing ... calling for an opponent's death cannot be tolerated. She should have turned to that part of the crowd where the shout came from and shut it down. Immediately.

And, if she didn't hear it, she's sure enough heard the reports about it and should admonish her audiences to restrain from further calls for death.

We have the right to shout and holler. We cross the line when we call for someone's death ... especially not this year ... 1963 and 1968 are not history to me ... I lived through them.

Very, very well said....

Crazy Navy Flyer wrote:

Wino you know wrote:

Lightning Bolt wrote:This mud has been thrown before, and it just doesn't stick...
Ayers is a well-regarded educator now.
If he is so dangerous, how is he is so widely respected and funded locally in educational circles, now?

You just answered your own question.

Good one I totally agree

Good one?

Thank you for highlighting the reason for the term "two Americas".

Academic intelligence and the education system are the REAL enemies to folks who done di'un't get none, huh?
Governin', go' bless ya', is best left to folks holdin' onto to guns, I guess.
Sarah Palin ain't here for listenun' to... she's just the pretty one standin' next to the war hero... and carryin' his six-pack!!

Lightning Bolt wrote:

Crazy Navy Flyer wrote:

Wino you know wrote:

Lightning Bolt wrote:This mud has been thrown before, and it just doesn't stick...
Ayers is a well-regarded educator now.
If he is so dangerous, how is he is so widely respected and funded locally in educational circles, now?

You just answered your own question.

Good one I totally agree

Good one?

Thank you for highlighting the reason for the term "two Americas".

Academic intelligence and the education system are the REAL enemies to folks who done di'un't get none, huh?
Governin', go' bless ya', is best left to folks holdin' onto to guns, I guess.
Sarah Palin ain't here for listenun' to... she's just the pretty one standin' next to the war hero... and carryin' his six-pack!!

LB...

As a guy who holds advanced degrees and currently teaches grad school, let me (politely) inform you that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Sadly enough, a lot of our institutions of higher learning have been taken over by the leftover '60s left-wing radicals. They obtained advanced degrees, hid their radical agendas/beliefs until tenured and then let it all fly...

Once tenured, they've been near-impossible to get rid of (Ward Churchill, anyone?) Students are required to take (and pass!) their classes to graduate, and in order to pass, they must regurgitate the rantings of their "professor."

A great deal of what once was truly "higher education" is now a sham.

The only upside is that over the last couple of years, the tide is beginning to turn again. The '60s nutjobs are starting to retire, and the new generation of professors seem to have real-world experience in addition to their academic credentials.

Lightning Bolt wrote:

Crazy Navy Flyer wrote:

Wino you know wrote:

Lightning Bolt wrote:This mud has been thrown before, and it just doesn't stick...
Ayers is a well-regarded educator now.
If he is so dangerous, how is he is so widely respected and funded locally in educational circles, now?

You just answered your own question.

Good one I totally agree

Good one?

Thank you for highlighting the reason for the term "two Americas".

Academic intelligence and the education system are the REAL enemies to folks who done di'un't get none, huh?
Governin', go' bless ya', is best left to folks holdin' onto to guns, I guess.
Sarah Palin ain't here for listenun' to... she's just the pretty one standin' next to the war hero... and carryin' his six-pack!!

ACADEMIC INTELLIGENCE?
Now THERE'S an oxymoron if I ever saw one.
Had you said academic IGNORANCE, I'd have to agree with you.

I said it before, I'll say it again:
I'll be SO happy when the day comes when all parents can send their little rug rats to PRIVATE schools, and the money wasted on public education goes to something REALLY useful.
Like building bombers.

Not so much for ME. I'm 56 years old and a combat veteran, therefore, I HAVE an education.
McCain is the REAL war hero. I only have three bronze stars. He deserves the Medal of Honor BIG TIME.

AND, if you DO see my favorite Alaska lady carrying a six pack, PLEASE send her my way.
Please.

krusin1 wrote:

Lightning Bolt wrote:

Crazy Navy Flyer wrote:

Wino you know wrote:

Lightning Bolt wrote:This mud has been thrown before, and it just doesn't stick...
Ayers is a well-regarded educator now.
If he is so dangerous, how is he is so widely respected and funded locally in educational circles, now?

You just answered your own question.

Good one I totally agree

Good one?

Thank you for highlighting the reason for the term "two Americas".

Academic intelligence and the education system are the REAL enemies to folks who done di'un't get none, huh?
Governin', go' bless ya', is best left to folks holdin' onto to guns, I guess.
Sarah Palin ain't here for listenun' to... she's just the pretty one standin' next to the war hero... and carryin' his six-pack!!

LB...

As a guy who holds advanced degrees and currently teaches grad school, let me (politely) inform you that you have no idea what you're talking about.

That's okay.
You're entitled to your higher-degreed, apparently higher-informed opinion as well.
What school do you teach at? ...and just curiously, do your colleagues realize you hold them in such low esteem?

Wino you know wrote:

Lightning Bolt wrote:

Crazy Navy Flyer wrote:

Wino you know wrote:

Lightning Bolt wrote:This mud has been thrown before, and it just doesn't stick...
Ayers is a well-regarded educator now.
If he is so dangerous, how is he is so widely respected and funded locally in educational circles, now?

You just answered your own question.

Good one I totally agree

Good one?

Thank you for highlighting the reason for the term "two Americas".

Academic intelligence and the education system are the REAL enemies to folks who done di'un't get none, huh?
Governin', go' bless ya', is best left to folks holdin' onto to guns, I guess.
Sarah Palin ain't here for listenun' to... she's just the pretty one standin' next to the war hero... and carryin' his six-pack!!

ACADEMIC INTELLIGENCE?
Now THERE'S an oxymoron if I ever saw one.
Had you said academic IGNORANCE, I'd have to agree with you.

I said it before, I'll say it again:
I'll be SO happy when the day comes when all parents can send their little rug rats to PRIVATE schools, and the money wasted on public education goes to something REALLY useful.
Like building bombers.

Not so much for ME. I'm 56 years old and a combat veteran, therefore, I HAVE an education.
McCain is the REAL war hero. I only have three bronze stars. He deserves the Medal of Honor BIG TIME.

AND, if you DO see my favorite Alaska lady carrying a six pack, PLEASE send her my way.
Please.

How and where did you get that education?

BFinnsUp wrote:How and where did you get that education?

How?
By living and doing.

Where?
Everywhere I went.

From whom?
Everyone I've met.
They've all taught me something.

Not exactly an Ivy-Leaguer, I know, but I think I did okay for myself.

Wino you know wrote:

BFinnsUp wrote:How and where did you get that education?

How?
By living and doing.

Where?
Everywhere I went.

From whom?
Everyone I've met.
They've all taught me something.

Not exactly an Ivy-Leaguer, I know, but I think I did okay for myself.

No one said you have to be an Ivy-leaguer to do well for yourself. However, I am a firm believer in education. Entrepreneurship, hard work, and education are what have made this country great. By itself, as in those professors without practical experience that were mentioned previously, it is not that useful. But combined with the others, little can stop it. I believe that our government needs to continue to provide public education and incentives that will foster the other two. If you want to fix education, as with most over government, get the politicians out of the operations. They should be making the decisions on direction and funding not day to day operations.