Only a pen stroke, Mr. Obama??

[tikitatas]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-bel ... 99070.html


Dan Choi, a West Point graduate and officer in the Army National Guard who is fluent in Arabic and who returned recently from Iraq, received notice today that the military is about to fire him. Why? Because he came out of the closet as a gay man on national television.

[aeroparrot]

The President is the head of the military and there are certain military decisions that don't require the notification of Congress. The current policy of the United States military is "Don't ask, Don't tell." Meaning that the military cannot ask whether or not he or she is gay but if they come out and state that they are, while in the military, the commanders can have them discharged. I think, but not sure and would need to get someone who is in the military to confirm this, it can be a dishonorable discharge.

[tikitatas]

The President is the head of the military and there are certain military decisions that don't require the notification of Congress. The current policy of the United States military is "Don't ask, Don't tell." Meaning that the military cannot ask whether or not he or she is gay but if they come out and state that they are, while in the military, the commanders can have them discharged. I think, but not sure and would need to get someone who is in the military to confirm this, it can be a dishonorable discharge.

But it is wrong.

[aeroparrot]

The President is the head of the military and there are certain military decisions that don't require the notification of Congress. The current policy of the United States military is "Don't ask, Don't tell." Meaning that the military cannot ask whether or not he or she is gay but if they come out and state that they are, while in the military, the commanders can have them discharged. I think, but not sure and would need to get someone who is in the military to confirm this, it can be a dishonorable discharge.

But it is wrong.

At the time the policy it was implemented (under the Clinton administration), there was not that much support in letting any gay person in the military (in terms of polls), so the Clinton Administration had to compromise and have this policy.

[tikitatas]

If Mr. Obama has the power to undo it, this is something that could change. The numbers of strong, capable personnel who happen to be gay/------- in your military are legion. How wrong to have to live under this "secret".

Oh, again . . . l esbian is a censored word on this board.

[buffettbride]

Way to go Dan. I hope you are an instrument of change.

((Cate))

I love l e s b i a n s.

[tikitatas]

Way to go Dan. I hope you are an instrument of change.

((Cate))

I love l e s b i a n s.

And bi's. And queer. And trans. And two-spirited. And gay.

[aeroparrot]

If Mr. Obama has the power to undo it, this is something that could change. The numbers of strong, capable personnel who happen to be gay/------- in your military are legion. How wrong to have to live under this "secret".

Oh, again . . . l esbian is a censored word on this board.

He could but I think he would lose in 2012 if he did. IF he did, I think he would wait until after the election in 2012 to change it.

[tikitatas]

If Mr. Obama has the power to undo it, this is something that could change. The numbers of strong, capable personnel who happen to be gay/------- in your military are legion. How wrong to have to live under this "secret".

Oh, again . . . l esbian is a censored word on this board.

He could but I think he would lose in 2012 if he did. IF he did, I think he would wait until after the election in 2012 to change it.

You have to be joking. You have to be. THIS issue could lose an election for him?

[Skibo]

The President is the head of the military and there are certain military decisions that don't require the notification of Congress. The current policy of the United States military is "Don't ask, Don't tell." Meaning that the military cannot ask whether or not he or she is gay but if they come out and state that they are, while in the military, the commanders can have them discharged. I think, but not sure and would need to get someone who is in the military to confirm this, it can be a dishonorable discharge.

But it is wrong.

You may believe it is wrong but it is the current policy. Simple rule in place for years. If you are gay and don't believe you can comply with the rule then perhaps a different career path should be explored. I really don't understand the obsession with the gay community to publicize their preference. I can't remember ever going to a parade and seeing an organization marching chanting "We're here and we're straight" And really, It's one thing to get caught holding hands in a movie theater, its another to spit in the face of the policy on national tv

[Marnin Grita Guy]

If Mr. Obama has the power to undo it, this is something that could change. The numbers of strong, capable personnel who happen to be gay/------- in your military are legion. How wrong to have to live under this "secret".

Oh, again . . . l esbian is a censored word on this board.

Yes, but the word LOVE is not. I LOVE you Cate for being you. I love most

everyone I have met, regardless of how they love!



Jim needs to cange the filter on words.

[Bicycle Bill]

If Mr. Obama has the power to undo it, this is something that could change. The numbers of strong, capable personnel who happen to be gay/------- in your military are legion. How wrong to have to live under this "secret".

Oh, again . . . l esbian is a censored word on this board.

He could but I think he would lose in 2012 if he did. IF he did, I think he would wait until after the election in 2012 to change it.

You have to be joking. You have to be. THIS issue could lose an election for him?

Correct. If he were to make the change today, this issue would be so far in the past by the 2012 that it would be a non-player. Except maybe to the Radical Right/Religious Right.
Let's face it. If Obama can get the economy straightened out and find some way of getting us out of the Middle East without just turning and running, he could announce that he himself was gay (not claiming/saying that he is; it's merely to illustrate a point) and it wouldn't affect his re-election chances.

-"BB"-

[tikitatas]

The President is the head of the military and there are certain military decisions that don't require the notification of Congress. The current policy of the United States military is "Don't ask, Don't tell." Meaning that the military cannot ask whether or not he or she is gay but if they come out and state that they are, while in the military, the commanders can have them discharged. I think, but not sure and would need to get someone who is in the military to confirm this, it can be a dishonorable discharge.

But it is wrong.

You may believe it is wrong but it is the current policy. Simple rule in place for years. If you are gay and don't believe you can comply with the rule then perhaps a different career path should be explored. I really don't understand the obsession with the gay community to publicize their preference. I can't remember ever going to a parade and seeing an organization marching chanting "We're here and we're straight" And really, It's one thing to get caught holding hands in a movie theater, its another to spit in the face of the policy on national tv.

That it is policy, I do not question. But why, in 2009?
I do not live in the US, and I have completed my career, thank you. "Caught" holding hands? What century are YOU living in? Current policy effectively makes it impossible for some of your finest (yes, and gayest) military men and women to live honestly and with heads rightfully high. Don't tell me your intelligence can't use more Arabic speakers like Mr. Choi.
If you are heterosexual, you have perhaps not needed to proclaim your desire for equality, for better AIDS awareness/education, for commemoration of the Stonewall Riots, Matthew Shepard and countless other victims of violence, or for the right to marry. Dominant discourse has it in your favour all the way.

[Lightning Bolt]

The President is the head of the military and there are certain military decisions that don't require the notification of Congress. The current policy of the United States military is "Don't ask, Don't tell." Meaning that the military cannot ask whether or not he or she is gay but if they come out and state that they are, while in the military, the commanders can have them discharged. I think, but not sure and would need to get someone who is in the military to confirm this, it can be a dishonorable discharge.

But it is wrong.

You may believe it is wrong but it is the current policy. Simple rule in place for years. If you are gay and don't believe you can comply with the rule then perhaps a different career path should be explored. I really don't understand the obsession with the gay community to publicize their preference. I can't remember ever going to a parade and seeing an organization marching chanting "We're here and we're straight" And really, It's one thing to get caught holding hands in a movie theater, its another to spit in the face of the policy on national tv.

That it is policy, I do not question. But why, in 2009?
I do not live in the US, and I have completed my career, thank you. "Caught" holding hands? What century are YOU living in? Current policy effectively makes it impossible for some of your finest (yes, and gayest) military men and women to live honestly and with heads rightfully high. Don't tell me your intelligence can't use more Arabic speakers like Mr. Choi.
If you are heterosexual, you have perhaps not needed to proclaim your desire for equality, for better AIDS awareness/education, for commemoration of the Stonewall Riots, Matthew Shepard and countless other victims of violence, or for the right to marry. Dominant discourse has it in your favour all the way.

Enlightenment and cooperation are words whose definition would seem to be narrowly defined around here (America, etc...)
We'll agree on songs and tailgates and such (and then again... we don't always )
but it's been evident in this new year that anger, resentment and paranoia (bought your bullets yet?) are still found in abundance.

Don't expect revolutionary change, including here, to come quickly and easily...

[aeroparrot]

If Mr. Obama has the power to undo it, this is something that could change. The numbers of strong, capable personnel who happen to be gay/------- in your military are legion. How wrong to have to live under this "secret".

Oh, again . . . l esbian is a censored word on this board.

He could but I think he would lose in 2012 if he did. IF he did, I think he would wait until after the election in 2012 to change it.

You have to be joking. You have to be. THIS issue could lose an election for him?

Probably not THE issue that could lose him the election because, I think, most people don't want the government to tell them what they can or cannot do in the bedroom (so to speak). I'm just saying that those who think that being gay is an automatic ticket to hell will make it so difficult that they would try to sway the voters by saying that instead of training to help keep the U.S. safe from terrorists, the gays instead will be looking at the other soldiers and make them uncomfortable and ruin the military and make us weak. Not saying it's right but just saying that people will try to say this.

[buffettbride]

Way to go Dan. I hope you are an instrument of change.

((Cate))

I love l e s b i a n s.

And bi's. And queer. And trans. And two-spirited. And gay.

Hell, you could be pink with orange polka dots and I'd still like you.

[ejr]

The President is the head of the military and there are certain military decisions that don't require the notification of Congress. The current policy of the United States military is "Don't ask, Don't tell." Meaning that the military cannot ask whether or not he or she is gay but if they come out and state that they are, while in the military, the commanders can have them discharged. I think, but not sure and would need to get someone who is in the military to confirm this, it can be a dishonorable discharge.

But it is wrong.

You may believe it is wrong but it is the current policy. Simple rule in place for years. If you are gay and don't believe you can comply with the rule then perhaps a different career path should be explored. I really don't understand the obsession with the gay community to publicize their preference. I can't remember ever going to a parade and seeing an organization marching chanting "We're here and we're straight" And really, It's one thing to get caught holding hands in a movie theater, its another to spit in the face of the policy on national tv

Most of us don't have to run around chanting "we're here and we're straight" because so much of our day to day life reflects that. It is easy for those of us in the majority to speak from that position, but imagine just how very difficult it must be for someone who is gay and in love to live a truthful life. A life without fear. A life where one can be proud of who one is, who one loves, and all that comes with that.

[SchoolGirlHeart]

President Obama ran on "change".... It's time for a change in this policy.

I have served with gays and l_esbians. I didn't ask; they couldn't tell. Some of them were among the best officers and enlisted people in the military. The military also lost some of the best officers I served with because they resigned rather than live a lie.

Men (and then women) of color integrated into the military. Women integrated into the military. There were growing pains with both. It's time to remove sexual orientation as a bar to military service.

I don't for one second believe this would hurt the President's chances of reelection. Think about it: most of the people who would oppose changing this policy are most likely already voting against him...

To correct one misconception, gays and l_esbians are usually given an honorable discharge "for the good of the service" (not my wording), *not* a dishonorable discharge, which equates to a felony conviction. Small comfort.

[popcornjack]

from a non-military person's point of view: My bedroom is mine; yours is yours.

[MammaBear]

The President is the head of the military and there are certain military decisions that don't require the notification of Congress. The current policy of the United States military is "Don't ask, Don't tell." Meaning that the military cannot ask whether or not he or she is gay but if they come out and state that they are, while in the military, the commanders can have them discharged. I think, but not sure and would need to get someone who is in the military to confirm this, it can be a dishonorable discharge.

But it is wrong.

You may believe it is wrong but it is the current policy. Simple rule in place for years. If you are gay and don't believe you can comply with the rule then perhaps a different career path should be explored. I really don't understand the obsession with the gay community to publicize their preference. I can't remember ever going to a parade and seeing an organization marching chanting "We're here and we're straight" And really, It's one thing to get caught holding hands in a movie theater, its another to spit in the face of the policy on national tv.

That it is policy, I do not question. But why, in 2009?
I do not live in the US, and I have completed my career, thank you. "Caught" holding hands? What century are YOU living in? Current policy effectively makes it impossible for some of your finest (yes, and gayest) military men and women to live honestly and with heads rightfully high. Don't tell me your intelligence can't use more Arabic speakers like Mr. Choi.
If you are heterosexual, you have perhaps not needed to proclaim your desire for equality, for better AIDS awareness/education, for commemoration of the Stonewall Riots, Matthew Shepard and countless other victims of violence, or for the right to marry. Dominant discourse has it in your favour all the way.

Enlightenment and cooperation are words whose definition would seem to be narrowly defined around here (America, etc...)
We'll agree on songs and tailgates and such (and then again... we don't always )
but it's been evident in this new year that anger, resentment and paranoia (bought your bullets yet?) are still found in abundance.

Don't expect revolutionary change, including here, to come quickly and easily...

I thought YOUR candidate was going to be THE savior? Now, "change" will not come quickly and easily? A stroke of a pen seems pretty darn easy to me if he was so inclined! As far as the "bullets" remark, well LB, that is just an assinine statement.

However, I stray from the topic at hand. In a day of a volunteer military, one knows what the rules are and the consequences of standing up to those rules. Not saying the law is right or wrong, just that it exists and those in the military are aware of this. I don't believe Obama should use the stroke of a pen to reverse this one, I think the law needs to be looked at and updated........

This being said, I believe many intelligent, or perhaps even, brilliant people are overlooked or discriminated against because of something considered to be outside of the norm. As for you, Tiki....

It is an honor to be in your peaceful presence if only in ciberspace....