Dog lovers - anybody deal with rescue or difficult animals

[OceanCityGirl]

We have a corgi pup who probably came from a puppy mill. We are having a terrible problem with aggression. I do not want to give him up so I need some serious help/advice. We are working with a trainer and his obedience skills are excellent. However, I am afraid he will bite somebody. He is only 7 months old so I am hoping there is still a chance to turn this around. If somebody can help I'll go into further details.

[sunseeker]

Is your trainer only using positive reinforcement? My dog was very aggressive when he was a puppy. We first tried to use only positive reinforcement but he kept biting and being aggressive with me. We finally brought in a trainer who used "punishment" as a method. Our 3 punishments was a spray water bottle, a can of coins, and our voices sayin "UH UH UH UH" (or no no no). Any time he did anything bad, we would squirt him or shake the coins (coupled with our voices) to get him to stop. The water bottle STILL works to this day. He only has to see it to stop whatever he is doing...

Also she had us feed him by hand for about a week straight. Every morsel of food had to be given to him from our hand. Literally feed him every morsel. It takes time - but they learn you are in control of the food. The learn to respect you.

Finally came the hardest part. We could not pet him for 1 week straight. he could not get on the furniture. he had to learn he was the dog...

All of this broke him of his bad behaviors and he is a great dog now. I love him more than anything and am glad I was so strict in the beginning.

[karat]

I have a Border Collie/Sheltie mix from the shelter (5yr old, had her for 4 mons nowth) that has issues up and down but not dog aggression. Take all the advise you can get. Most important key is CONTINOUS training. When they least expect it and through out the day in 5-10 minute periods.

I have a huge issue right now with sound....and I of course not thinking popped a packing bubble...back to square one.

Best of luck, I am sure your dog will turn out well. Please enroll in puppy class, the dog needs to be socialized as much as possible!

[nutmeg]

If you let him get the upper hand as a puppy, he will rule you forever. You need to be the alpha and let him know under no circumstance is he the leader.

The trainer that worked with my sister's dog told her he could not sleep in their bed, could not get on the furniture etc. They needed to make it clear that he was a dog, not a human and treat him accordingly.

I don't know if you ever watch the dog whisperer, but you can get a lot of good tips for dealing with different situations from the shows.

Good luck!

[OceanCityGirl]

The trainer is only using positive but it's only been one week. We'll see what happens when we tell her it's not working, it's getting worst. We are doing something called NILIF that requires him to obey commands before he gets anything. He can't go out the door before us or pull ahead of us on lead. He never sleeps in the bed, he's crated at night. And he is occasionally allowed on the couch if he sits first and is called up. But that may have to stop for now. We are going to have to try more serious methods because when it's bad it's very bad. I don't know what else to do to make us alpha.
Something went very wrong at his home of origin. I won't call the man a breeder. I would assume he had no socialization at the least and possibly some abuse. We didn't get him until he was nearly 6 months old and he was afraid of everyone but my son who brought him home for nearly a month. We spent all that time getting him to be near us and did little else. So he was probably very spoiled then. He has alot of college friends, one who used to be here alot. That friend was too rough with the puppy and I believe triggered some sort of fear response. He began growling and snarling at this friend. Now he does it to everybody but my son and I, at some time or other and we can't see any reason to it. He snaps and comes close to biting. He could bite if he wanted to do but doesn't yet.

[karat]

how is he in the submissive position? Unfortunately, that is all my dog will do. She has snapped at me 3 times. First time, less than an inch from my face after having her for 2 days... she was positioned on the floor by me before she could blink an eye. Second time, it was a threat of only opening her mouth, again another down on the floor. The last time, I was close enough that she wanted to bite my neck. She knows I am alpha, she just tries me. Yes she sleeps on the bed and is often kicked out in the middle of the night. Poor thing is constantly looking for affection. Men scare her something awful

I wont' give up on her, she was abused and terrified. Not to mention I think this is her third or fourth home. I have worked with 2 borders, one that was on his way for the Search and Rescue team ( we had family issue arrise that I had to drop back), one that could go with anyone. And I have a 1,500 pound beast that tries to get the best of me and it will not happen

I do not use my hand, whip or any objects thrown. Vocal and penny can has always worked. Unfortunately, it just takes time. If you hear of any new tricks, please let us know.

[OceanCityGirl]

my son who is her clear alpha puts her in submissive all the time. Right now I'm afraid of forcing him down. I used to be able to put him on his back in my arms and force him to stay there until he went limp. Tonight he snarled at me when I attempted to do it. I'm not sure if I want to force it until i'm sure of myself. I think if he bit me badly he would be gone and he wouldn't get another chance. So I'm trying to avoid pushing him to that.
When he growls or misbehaves I sternly tell him to sit and stay which he does. Then he growls for another 30 seconds and is my best friend. There seems to be no logic to these incidents anymore.

[karat]

my son who is her clear alpha puts her in submissive all the time. Right now I'm afraid of forcing him down. I used to be able to put him on his back in my arms and force him to stay there until he went limp. Tonight he snarled at me when I attempted to do it. I'm not sure if I want to force it until i'm sure of myself. I think if he bit me badly he would be gone and he wouldn't get another chance. So I'm trying to avoid pushing him to that.
When he growls or misbehaves I sternly tell him to sit and stay which he does. Then he growls for another 30 seconds and is my best friend. There seems to be no logic to these incidents anymore.

YOU need to act on him, if not, he has won. Do it with your son by your side, but not saying anything, unless he has to.

[OceanCityGirl]

What exactly should I do. Put him in a submissive position? And if so just randomly during the day? Do I do it when he is growling? And how do you define the submissive position for a dog?

[OceanCityGirl]

Is the down position submissive? He will do this for me on command.

[sunseeker]

I agree...no more couch time. And make sure you try the feeding thing. Made a BIG difference. Maverick still on occasion snarels at me (especially when I'm trying to take something away from him that he shouldn't have). I just ignore him, let him snarel and snap. You cannot be afraid of them...

[sunseeker]

No- the submissive position is on their side.

I wouldn't put him into the submissive position unless he did something wrong...but that's just me

[karat]

What exactly should I do. Put him in a submissive position? And if so just randomly during the day? Do I do it when he is growling? And how do you define the submissive position for a dog?

submissive position is to gain control. It is not something that is randomly done - that is your basic training skills. Sit, Down, Stay, Come. Submissive position is almost like Time-Out (anyone agree?) might not be the correct wording. But it is not something that is done random.

I would put a dog in its place if it snarls at me, threatens a 'snap/bite', or comes after me.
if the dog does not sit, you keep working until it does - 'not sitting' is not call for submissive position

[karat]

On one other note......say good bye to rough-housing, horsing around with the dog. That reinforces the wrong behavior.

Soft voice, touch....tossing the ball or toy....praise, that is all the good stuff all dogs (animals) should know.

[karat]

No- the submissive position is on their side.

I wouldn't put him into the submissive position unless he did something wrong...but that's just me

From my experience, submission is on their back....that is where (in the wild) they are most vunerable

[tigzoe]

Hi OCG,

Have you thought about getting in touch with a behaviorist as well. One day at work, we had a local behaviorist come in to do a seminar. She discussed a lot of different things when she is trying to tackle behavior issues with dogs. One thing I took away from it is how important nutrition is. For example, do you "feel" better when you eat a healthy dinner or when you grab a Big Mac and a large fry? I used to give my older dog a greenie every night, but the behaviorist looked at the level of protein, and she said it was like giving her a candy bar at night. Now, I don't have kids, but I am assuming that a candy bar at 8pm is not really a good thing to do.

Another thing to keep in mind is that he is a herding dog. I have 3 shelties, 1 I purchased from a breeder, the other two did come from a puppy mill that was shut down by the state. I fostered them since they were two weeks old. I have to be careful with all of them around kids because it is in their nature to herd them, and yes, nip at them. Shoot, they even try to herd the cats at times. Even though I had the two puppies when they were really young, I know that they come with a couple of ticks since their mom and dad were probably born into the puppy mill life as well.

Another thing when it comes to training, is that everyone needs to be consistent. If one person does things one way and another person does things another way, he will certainly get mixed messages. The whole family needs to be part of the training process.

Good luck and keep me posted on how he does.

[nutmeg]

One other thing that is very important for dogs is to get enough exercise. Most dogs need an outlet for all that energy they have stored up. So someone needs to be taking him for long walks.

[tigzoe]

Or day care. It is great for socialization and great exercise.

[ph4ever]

I agree with everything that has been said but would like to add that if you're afraid of the dog then the dog has already "won".

Right now I'm afraid of forcing him down. I used to be able to put him on his back in my arms and force him to stay there until he went limp. Tonight he snarled at me when I attempted to do it. I'm not sure if I want to force it until i'm sure of myself. I think if he bit me badly he would be gone and he wouldn't get another chance. So I'm trying to avoid pushing him to that.
When he growls or misbehaves I sternly tell him to sit and stay which he does. Then he growls for another 30 seconds and is my best friend. There seems to be no logic to these incidents anymore.

Growl back at him. Seriously. You are part of a "pack" and there is a clear need for you to show that in your pack you are the dominate one. Shannon's suggestions on the water, coins and nononono or something similar really will work. So will a rolled up newspaper (lengthwise) held together with rubber bands for some dogs. For the noise effect, not beating the dog.

[sunseeker]

No- the submissive position is on their side.

I wouldn't put him into the submissive position unless he did something wrong...but that's just me

From my experience, submission is on their back....that is where (in the wild) they are most vunerable

I think it can be either I used to put Maverik in submissive, but because he is such a large dog it was hard to get him completely on his back. So he would end up on his side while I gently held his snout on the floor until he would calm down...