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Taylor Mali wrote:He says the problem with teachers is, "What's a kid going to learn
from someone who decided his best option in life was to become a teacher?"
He reminds the other dinner guests that it's true what they say about
teachers:
Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.

I decide to bite my tongue instead of his
and resist the temptation to remind the other dinner guests
that it's also true what they say about lawyers.

Because we're eating, after all, and this is polite company.

"I mean, you¹re a teacher, Taylor," he says.
"Be honest. What do you make?"

And I wish he hadn't done that
(asked me to be honest)
because, you see, I have a policy
about honesty and ass-kicking:
if you ask for it, I have to let you have it.

You want to know what I make?

I make kids work harder than they ever thought they could.
I can make a C+ feel like a Congressional medal of honor
and an A- feel like a slap in the face.
How dare you waste my time with anything less than your very best.

I make kids sit through 40 minutes of study hall
in absolute silence. No, you may not work in groups.
No, you may not ask a question.
Why won't I let you get a drink of water?
Because you're not thirsty, you're bored, that's why.

I make parents tremble in fear when I call home:
I hope I haven't called at a bad time,
I just wanted to talk to you about something Billy said today.
Billy said, "Leave the kid alone. I still cry sometimes, don't you?"
And it was the noblest act of courage I have ever seen.

I make parents see their children for who they are
and what they can be.

You want to know what I make?

I make kids wonder,
I make them question.
I make them criticize.
I make them apologize and mean it.
I make them write, write, write.
And then I make them read.
I make them spell definitely beautiful, definitely beautiful, definitely
beautiful
over and over and over again until they will never misspell
either one of those words again.
I make them show all their work in math.
And hide it on their final drafts in English.
I make them understand that if you got this (brains)
then you follow this (heart) and if someone ever tries to judge you
by what you make, you give them this (the finger).

Let me break it down for you, so you know what I say is true:
I make a goddamn difference! What about you?

http://www.taylormali.com

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

--Derek Bok, former president of Harvard

What does a teacher make? Let me tell you......

My dad was a teacher back in the 1950s. Once he found out I was on my way, he stopped teaching and took a job as an engineer in a factory so he would have steady, regular hours and could be home at predictable times for his wife and soon-to-be family. But even as I was growing up, people he had taught in school would come up to him with their children (and later, grandchildren) and tell them, "This is Mr. S...............; I had him when I was in school" — and occasionally add something like "It's too bad you don't have a teacher like he was."

When he passed away over fifteen years ago people came up to my mother and identified themselves as former students of his, and freely offered testimonials to the effect their time in my father's classroom had had on their lives. Even today, almost sixty years after he left teaching, elderly people occasionally talk to my mother (or myself) and seem genuinely proud to the point of boasting that they can say they were one of my father's students.

My mother later confided in me that my dad sometimes lamented the fact that he had not left some sort of mark on the world — he was never lionized in his lifetime; he is not in any Halls of Fame; other than his headstone, there are no statues, memorials, buildings, or charitable foundations bearing his name; he's never going to wind up in the encyclopedia; in fact, I doubt that a Google search of his name will bring up more than a dozen entries. But I'm here to say that he did something far more important than setting records, amassing piles of wealth, or leaving great works of art or literature to the world. He did something far more lasting and valuable.

He molded lives.....including mine. Thanks, Dad.


-"BB"-

My dad was a teacher (and a coach) from 1956 to 1993. He still remembers
every student he ever had. He remained a coach a few more years and later
served on the school board for 8 years, the last four as president. Two of
my brothers are teachers and another just left the profession last year.
It's a tough job.

I have worked in Education for the past year. Teachers at my school, who work 180 days a year, earn between 55,000, 72,000 dollars for less then a half a year's work. Most leave work for the day by 3PM. We all get 20 paid sick days and 5 paid professional days. Our insurance is as good as you will find any where for medical and dental. We have a 20 year retirement plan. Factoring in paper work and grading papers while subtracting the average 10 + days most teachers take off a year we all work 1,000 hours a year . . . probably a little less. I work in counselor so I don't have the aspect of the job. That works out to 55$ to 72$ an hour with pay checks coming in all summer to pay for the beach bar tab. No heavy lifting. Warm and dry work conditions. Tenured job security. Lets be serious . . . teachers and educators should be respected and appreciated - but we don't have it that bad. No worse then the guys working construction in the cold or other manual labor jobs for an hourly wage far less then the about rate.

EDIT: Forgot to mention the paid work shop days and 2,000$ of paid tuition that, atleast my school, offer to all employees to further their eduction and better their professional resume' for future employment possibilities. 1 Graduate level class paid for per year. Think all the blue collar guys working their as$es off for far less money - working 50 + weeks a year - wouldn't love that? What teachers make? Is a very VERY good living.

Must be nice. Looking at the base wage for a new teacher in my area.....I was better off as a plumber. I spent 4 years as a sub, working primarily in the same school. The 5th grade teacher I worked with was in at 7 am, usually there until at least 5, and then was working on his Masters degree (required, and paid for, by the district). This is in addition to the work he took home. Oh, don't forget the money he spent on things for the class. Your experience isn't necessarily the way it is everywhere.

Staredge wrote:Must be nice. Looking at the base wage for a new teacher in my area.....I was better off as a plumber. I spent 4 years as a sub, working primarily in the same school. The 5th grade teacher I worked with was in at 7 am, usually there until at least 5, and then was working on his Masters degree (required, and paid for, by the district). This is in addition to the work he took home. Oh, don't forget the money he spent on things for the class. Your experience isn't necessarily the way it is everywhere.

Yep Will, my better half is very similar to the teacher you described. I know the extra hours she puts in and the out of pocket expense that she puts in too. But as some say on this your board your milage may vary and void where prohibited.

backstreets77 wrote:

Staredge wrote:Must be nice. Looking at the base wage for a new teacher in my area.....I was better off as a plumber. I spent 4 years as a sub, working primarily in the same school. The 5th grade teacher I worked with was in at 7 am, usually there until at least 5, and then was working on his Masters degree (required, and paid for, by the district). This is in addition to the work he took home. Oh, don't forget the money he spent on things for the class. Your experience isn't necessarily the way it is everywhere.

Yep Will, my better half is very similar to the teacher you described. I know the extra hours she puts in and the out of pocket expense that she puts in too. But as some say on this your board your milage may vary and void where prohibited.

For 180 days a year if you don't use you sick or personal time. Week off for Christmas. Week off in February. Week off in April. Summer's off. 3 day weekends. For amazing benefits and retirement and paid tuition. Teachers get a classroom budget and are not required to pay for things out of pocket. Please. Teachers don't work harder then anyone or earn the poverty wage you imply. Who makes 50 + thousand a year for working less then half of it? It is a great job. No need for the sympathy. It is a far better job for far better pay and conditions and benefits then I would challenge 75% or more people have. Personally, I love it. Personally, I don't think I work anywhere near as hard as when I did for the USCG or when I had manual labor positions.

Not enough! Teachers, Police & Fireman ought to be one of the highest paying jobs out there.. My 2 cents.

drunkpirate66 wrote:I have worked in Education for the past year. Teachers at my school, who work 180 days a year, earn between 55,000, 72,000 dollars for less then a half a year's work. Most leave work for the day by 3PM. We all get 20 paid sick days and 5 paid professional days. Our insurance is as good as you will find any where for medical and dental. We have a 20 year retirement plan. Factoring in paper work and grading papers while subtracting the average 10 + days most teachers take off a year we all work 1,000 hours a year . . . probably a little less. I work in counselor so I don't have the aspect of the job. That works out to 55$ to 72$ an hour with pay checks coming in all summer to pay for the beach bar tab. No heavy lifting. Warm and dry work conditions. Tenured job security. Lets be serious . . . teachers and educators should be respected and appreciated - but we don't have it that bad. No worse then the guys working construction in the cold or other manual labor jobs for an hourly wage far less then the about rate.

EDIT: Forgot to mention the paid work shop days and 2,000$ of paid tuition that, atleast my school, offer to all employees to further their eduction and better their professional resume' for future employment possibilities. 1 Graduate level class paid for per year. Think all the blue collar guys working their as$es off for far less money - working 50 + weeks a year - wouldn't love that? What teachers make? Is a very VERY good living.

I'll leave others to debate the value of a teacher, but I'll question your math.

You're saying 1,000 hours a year, probably less, when factoring in paper work and days off. But your numbers don't add up at all. Using your example of leaving at 3 p.m. (teachers, please hold all laughter until the end of the presentation), let's say they start at 8 and have an hour lunch (I know, it's never an hour long either). That's about 6 hours classroom time. Prep time for plans, making copies, setting up projectors, science experiments, appointments for guest speakers, etc. Let's say an hour per day (quiet please, teachers). Now comes after school and time spent correcting papers, recording scores, reading written assignments, calling parents for whatever reason, answering the principals emails, returning the phone calls from the school counselors, nurses and reading specialists. Let's give that 90 minutes, even though that realistically wouldn't cover grading papers alone. (teachers, if you continue this outburst I will have you removed from this thread!). So now that six hour day is up to a very conservative 8.5 hours.

180 days x 8.5 hours - 5 days off = 1487.5 hours. That's giving you 5 days off instead of 10, just saying "10 + days most teachers take off a year" doesn't make it true. But you can see where I'm going, that's already an increase of almost 50% from your estimate. (And teachers, you can now roll your eyes because you know the real-life number is much, much higher.)

Being realistic, I could use numbers that would increase the hours significantly. My wife's school begins at 7:28 a.m., not 8 a.m. That half-hour alone would add 90 hours a year. She gets just two personal days per year and takes about one sick day per year. That's not uncommon in her building. Paid professional days are exactly that, the time is spent in training sessions, meetings, analyzing standardized test scores, etc. They're not having three martinis for lunch. As far as getting paid over the summer months, that's an option many have. They can collect their full salary over the school year, or a reduced salary over the course of the calendar year. Works out to the same total, either way so it's a non-issue. And nobody in this area gets paid tuition, that is all a personal expense but can be a tax write-off if it's work related. You're very, very fortunate to be employed in the district that you are in. Hold onto that job for dear life. I think after you have more than a year in the educational field, you'll begin to see the hours upon hours that most teachers put into their careers.

chippewa wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:I have worked in Education for the past year. Teachers at my school, who work 180 days a year, earn between 55,000, 72,000 dollars for less then a half a year's work. Most leave work for the day by 3PM. We all get 20 paid sick days and 5 paid professional days. Our insurance is as good as you will find any where for medical and dental. We have a 20 year retirement plan. Factoring in paper work and grading papers while subtracting the average 10 + days most teachers take off a year we all work 1,000 hours a year . . . probably a little less. I work in counselor so I don't have the aspect of the job. That works out to 55$ to 72$ an hour with pay checks coming in all summer to pay for the beach bar tab. No heavy lifting. Warm and dry work conditions. Tenured job security. Lets be serious . . . teachers and educators should be respected and appreciated - but we don't have it that bad. No worse then the guys working construction in the cold or other manual labor jobs for an hourly wage far less then the about rate.

EDIT: Forgot to mention the paid work shop days and 2,000$ of paid tuition that, atleast my school, offer to all employees to further their eduction and better their professional resume' for future employment possibilities. 1 Graduate level class paid for per year. Think all the blue collar guys working their as$es off for far less money - working 50 + weeks a year - wouldn't love that? What teachers make? Is a very VERY good living.

I'll leave others to debate the value of a teacher, but I'll question your math.

You're saying 1,000 hours a year, probably less, when factoring in paper work and days off. But your numbers don't add up at all. Using your example of leaving at 3 p.m. (teachers, please hold all laughter until the end of the presentation), let's say they start at 8 and have an hour lunch (I know, it's never an hour long either). That's about 6 hours classroom time. Prep time for plans, making copies, setting up projectors, science experiments, appointments for guest speakers, etc. Let's say an hour per day (quiet please, teachers). Now comes after school and time spent correcting papers, recording scores, reading written assignments, calling parents for whatever reason, answering the principals emails, returning the phone calls from the school counselors, nurses and reading specialists. Let's give that 90 minutes, even though that realistically wouldn't cover grading papers alone. (teachers, if you continue this outburst I will have you removed from this thread!). So now that six hour day is up to a very conservative 8.5 hours.

180 days x 8.5 hours - 5 days off = 1487.5 hours. That's giving you 5 days off instead of 10, just saying "10 + days most teachers take off a year" doesn't make it true. But you can see where I'm going, that's already an increase of almost 50% from your estimate. (And teachers, you can now roll your eyes because you know the real-life number is much, much higher.)

Being realistic, I could use numbers that would increase the hours significantly. My wife's school begins at 7:28 a.m., not 8 a.m. That half-hour alone would add 90 hours a year. She gets just two personal days per year and takes about one sick day per year. That's not uncommon in her building. Paid professional days are exactly that, the time is spent in training sessions, meetings, analyzing standardized test scores, etc. They're not having three martinis for lunch. As far as getting paid over the summer months, that's an option many have. They can collect their full salary over the school year, or a reduced salary over the course of the calendar year. Works out to the same total, either way so it's a non-issue. And nobody in this area gets paid tuition, that is all a personal expense but can be a tax write-off if it's work related. You're very, very fortunate to be employed in the district that you are in. Hold onto that job for dear life. I think after you have more than a year in the educational field, you'll begin to see the hours upon hours that most teachers put into their careers.

No offense . . . really . . . but you are way off. Using my school as an example teachers took n average of 14.7 days off last year and others for "professional development" (I am sure construction workers would love a catered lunch in some hotel somewhere to took about "professional development"). Teachers here show up at 8:15 and stay to about 3. They work 5- 50 minute classes broken up into "segments". That is 5 hours of classroom work. We estimate an additional 1.5 hours a day for "copy making" and "grading". Most do far less. Trust me. Some do more. But for an average to go high in your favor - we will say 2 extra hours a day. 7 hours of actual "work" a day (which is not really work but I digress) multiplied times 170 days a year (which would actually be 165 days a year but again YOUR favor) is 1,190 . . . 60,000$ (most teachers here make more - I do) divided by 1,190 is 50$ per hour.

And how long do you think it takes to set up a projector? We don't even use them anymore. We have multi - media labs with computer lab techs that do all that work for teacher presentation. I work at a high school by the way. There is a ton of "watching multi - media" where the teacher gets to sit and watch. And get paid. Alot.

50$ an hour. Disagree? Cut that in half and teachers still make more per hour then the average blue collar guy busting his as$ - and that is without the medical, dental, retirement, and tenure and paid college classes - AND warm and dry working conditions without heavy lifting and numerous weeks off AND then entire summer. Again, teachers should be appreciated but no more then any other job.


*** By the way . . .I don't even have a Master's in Education. I have an MFA and my time as an instructor/ counselor in the USCG (where we worked long days with far more demanding expectations then the Public School System with far less money). I was given 3,000$ extra to coach. I get to hang out and lift weights with the Varsity baseball players. Play baseball. And get paid. Because of this - a documented "health program" I get a break on my health insurance. A big break. Name me another job where you get that? How cool is that? Again, teaching is an important job . . . but not one worthy of the sob stories you always here about lack of pay and respect.

I prepare personal tax returns every year, for going on 15 years now.

My opinion is teachers are WELL compensated for their career, especially in their retirement plans. However, ill keep doing taxes; and they can put up with the what they have to deal with daily! I only have to fight through tax laws, they deal with kids, parents, school boards, etc. . .

Bless all the teachers.

I really have no sympathy for teachers in public schools pay rates. Their pay seems pretty fair to me when you consider that teachers in private schools get even lower wages. Seems to me their wages are pretty good compared to the national average.

Now where I do have massive sympathy for teachers is the extra burdens dumped on them that the parents are failing at. They are teachers not child nutritionists, or behavioral analysts, or doctors, or role models, or the person that worries about properly clothing the child...Teachers should be teaching, not raising the kids.

Skibo wrote:I really have no sympathy for teachers in public schools pay rates. Their pay seems pretty fair to me when you consider that teachers in private schools get even lower wages. Seems to me their wages are pretty good compared to the national average.

Now where I do have massive sympathy for teachers is the extra burdens dumped on them that the parents are failing at. They are teachers not child nutritionists, or behavioral analysts, or doctors, or role models, or the person that worries about properly clothing the child...Teachers should be teaching, not raising the kids.

None of the teachers I work with do any of that. Atleast not the teachers I hang around with (and again, I work at a high school . . . not with younger children). All the people I work with show up, do their job, and then leave.

We have an actual Behavioral Analyst and child nutritionists do consult with us - per order of the Department of Education - twice a year. Good teachers, in my opinion, teach. They follow their state frameworks, worked on academics as needed, give 1:1 help when able, and then leave. I think there is a massive stereotype towards what teachers "have to deal with". At my school they teach, I counsel, I coach, we all leave. Just like any other job. For 180 days a year.

Skibo wrote:I really have no sympathy for teachers in public schools pay rates. Their pay seems pretty fair to me when you consider that teachers in private schools get even lower wages. Seems to me their wages are pretty good compared to the national average.

Now where I do have massive sympathy for teachers is the extra burdens dumped on them that the parents are failing at. They are teachers not child nutritionists, or behavioral analysts, or doctors, or role models, or the person that worries about properly clothing the child...Teachers should be teaching, not raising the kids.

YEP, onto my soap box . . . .

I run an ice cream business in my summers and it is amusing to train 15 & 16 year olds on simple things like . well . . . politeness, cleanliness, etiquette. between parents and teachers you would think they'd have a grasp of these things. . . . . Really odd when I have to work on "please" and "thank you" with them and they just stare at you like you're from another planet.

also; really funny that there is a rotary dial phone there and I have to explain that to them. LOL! seriously they do not know what a "rotary" phone is!

I am doing a long term - half year - sub position right now. I start my day at seven and am never done before 3:20. I have an average of two hours a night of work at home. I would expect this to get a bit better with more experience. This week I have a mandatory after school meeting for several hours about HSPA's. During testing I am required to stay longer because my students have unlimited testing time. Nobody is getting paid extra for this. I don't know anybody, without a major illness who takes 14 days off. When I leave there are still plenty of cars in the lot. I am working on teaching my students please and thank you and taking turns.

OceanCityGirl wrote:I am doing a long term - half year - sub position right now. I start my day at seven and am never done before 3:20. I have an average of two hours a night of work at home. I would expect this to get a bit better with more experience. This week I have a mandatory after school meeting for several hours about HSPA's. During testing I am required to stay longer because my students have unlimited testing time. Nobody is getting paid extra for this. I don't know anybody, without a major illness who takes 14 days off. When I leave there are still plenty of cars in the lot. I am working on teaching my students please and thank you and taking turns.

Your school district must blow. Do you work for Scrooge? I would never work without compensation. No matter what.

And what could you possibly be doing for 2 hours a night!? 2 hours on some nights here and there - maybe. But a night! D*mn! I know college professors who have lengthy papers to read and grade who don't need to do that.

In Massachusetts, teachers personal and sick time and public record. Not individual but per district. People get sick. Take 4 day weekends. Use their 5 personal days - contract deal. People die and, thus, people need time off to deal with it. Mental health days. Half days for Red Sox games. Half days for whatever reason. Doctors appointments; whatever have you.

In fact, we are told that taking time off is a good thing because there is a budget for substitutes which is factored into the 20 sicks days we are allowed. If we don't use them some carry over but not all and we would be in danger (heaven forbid) of losing funding for substitutes. 14.7 last year was on the low end for teachers in my district for time off. No one is working an extra two hours at home. Even if I factored in the two a day practices we have in the spring and summer I barely work an extra two hours a day. That is crazy.

This year I will probably end up working 172 days. For the year. Life is grand.

drunkpirate66 wrote:

OceanCityGirl wrote:I am doing a long term - half year - sub position right now. I start my day at seven and am never done before 3:20. I have an average of two hours a night of work at home. I would expect this to get a bit better with more experience. This week I have a mandatory after school meeting for several hours about HSPA's. During testing I am required to stay longer because my students have unlimited testing time. Nobody is getting paid extra for this. I don't know anybody, without a major illness who takes 14 days off. When I leave there are still plenty of cars in the lot. I am working on teaching my students please and thank you and taking turns.

Your school district must blow. Do you work for Scrooge? I would never work without compensation. No matter what.

And what could you possibly be doing for 2 hours a night!? 2 hours on some nights here and there - maybe. But a night! D*mn! I know college professors who have lengthy papers to read and grade who don't need to do that.

In Massachusetts, teachers personal and sick time and public record. Not individual but per district. People get sick. Take 4 day weekends. Use their 5 personal days - contract deal. People die and, thus, people need time off to deal with it. Mental health days. Half days for Red Sox games. Half days for whatever reason. Doctors appointments; whatever have you.

In fact, we are told that taking time off is a good thing because there is a budget for substitutes which is factored into the 20 sicks days we are allowed. If we don't use them some carry over but not all and we would be in danger (heaven forbid) of losing funding for substitutes. 14.7 last year was on the low end for teachers in my district for time off. No one is working an extra two hours at home. Even if I factored in the two a day practices we have in the spring and summer I barely work an extra two hours a day. That is crazy.

This year I will probably end up working 172 days. For the year. Life is grand.

Sounds like your school district has a Massachusetts problem, not a teacher problem.

buffettbride wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

OceanCityGirl wrote:I am doing a long term - half year - sub position right now. I start my day at seven and am never done before 3:20. I have an average of two hours a night of work at home. I would expect this to get a bit better with more experience. This week I have a mandatory after school meeting for several hours about HSPA's. During testing I am required to stay longer because my students have unlimited testing time. Nobody is getting paid extra for this. I don't know anybody, without a major illness who takes 14 days off. When I leave there are still plenty of cars in the lot. I am working on teaching my students please and thank you and taking turns.

Your school district must blow. Do you work for Scrooge? I would never work without compensation. No matter what.

And what could you possibly be doing for 2 hours a night!? 2 hours on some nights here and there - maybe. But a night! D*mn! I know college professors who have lengthy papers to read and grade who don't need to do that.

In Massachusetts, teachers personal and sick time and public record. Not individual but per district. People get sick. Take 4 day weekends. Use their 5 personal days - contract deal. People die and, thus, people need time off to deal with it. Mental health days. Half days for Red Sox games. Half days for whatever reason. Doctors appointments; whatever have you.

In fact, we are told that taking time off is a good thing because there is a budget for substitutes which is factored into the 20 sicks days we are allowed. If we don't use them some carry over but not all and we would be in danger (heaven forbid) of losing funding for substitutes. 14.7 last year was on the low end for teachers in my district for time off. No one is working an extra two hours at home. Even if I factored in the two a day practices we have in the spring and summer I barely work an extra two hours a day. That is crazy.

This year I will probably end up working 172 days. For the year. Life is grand.

Sounds like your school district has a Massachusetts problem, not a teacher problem.

Zing!!

Yes another clever BN response based without accountability or thought.

You got me good. Boy howdy.

But tomorrow I will get paid to work. Unlike other people who posted on this thread - not from MA. I am good with how I live. I am not good with not getting paid to work.