Scalpers at ticketmaster

moeron · Post by **moeron** » March 2, 2007 12:49 pm

Acording to the chicago tribune, Ticketsplus was selling tickets to ARCADE FIRE at The Chicago Theatre were selling dozens of premium tickets before they were to go on sale thru ticketmaster website.

I will try to put the link in. " It's the Arcade Fire at the Chicago Theatre on May 18-20. The three shows sold out last weekend; that's 11,000 tickets, a huge leap from the 2,500 the Montreal septet sold at its previous Chicago show, at the Riviera in the summer of 2005. Ticket scalpers--or brokers, as they prefer to be called--smell money. One such firm, ticketsplus.com, was offering a dozen premium tickets to the show at premium prices ($150 to $325, marked up from $31) a day before they went on sale to the general public.

How is that possible? A call to the ticketsplus.com offices yielded this response: "The tickets could come from a Ticketmaster presale or from various registered sellers who watch the industry and have access to tickets," according to a supervisor named "Jackie." "We're just the middleman between the ticket buyer and the ticket seller."

Sources with access to the Chicago Theatre seating chart said there was no way the advertised tickets could have been available the day before the sale, and that there was no Ticketmaster presale. But ticketsplus.com ended up scoring prime tickets anyway, and this week is offering dozens of tickets for all three shows at extravagant prices ranging up to $999."

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I hope that this works.... I dropped out of collage. So no matter how hard we try to score tickets, we are fighting a losing battle. Were just the middle man. Yeah! a middle man with money to screw the phans.

Quiet and Shy · Post by **Quiet and Shy** » March 2, 2007 1:49 pm

moeron wrote:Acording to the chicago tribune, Ticketsplus was selling tickets to ARCADE FIRE at The Chicago Theatre were selling dozens of premium tickets before they were to go on sale thru ticketmaster website.

I will try to put the link in. " It's the Arcade Fire at the Chicago Theatre on May 18-20. The three shows sold out last weekend; that's 11,000 tickets, a huge leap from the 2,500 the Montreal septet sold at its previous Chicago show, at the Riviera in the summer of 2005. Ticket scalpers--or brokers, as they prefer to be called--smell money. One such firm, ticketsplus.com, was offering a dozen premium tickets to the show at premium prices ($150 to $325, marked up from $31) a day before they went on sale to the general public.

How is that possible? A call to the ticketsplus.com offices yielded this response: "The tickets could come from a Ticketmaster presale or from various registered sellers who watch the industry and have access to tickets," according to a supervisor named "Jackie." "We're just the middleman between the ticket buyer and the ticket seller."

Sources with access to the Chicago Theatre seating chart said there was no way the advertised tickets could have been available the day before the sale, and that there was no Ticketmaster presale. But ticketsplus.com ended up scoring prime tickets anyway, and this week is offering dozens of tickets for all three shows at extravagant prices ranging up to $999."

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I hope that this works.... I dropped out of collage. So no matter how hard we try to score tickets, we are fighting a losing battle. Were just the middle man. Yeah! a middle man with money to screw the phans.

I'd be very interested to have more detail on this....

Couganata · Post by **Couganata** » March 2, 2007 2:30 pm

These registered people, depending on the venue they are corporate and are confirmed sells, in which the venue sells to their sponsors first, ie. box seats etc.

Many large venues have corps that re sell tickets into these brokers. I have purchased pre-sale tickets in the past for Chicago and at an event in Cleveland once.

Quiet and Shy · Post by **Quiet and Shy** » March 2, 2007 2:51 pm

Couganata wrote:These registered people, depending on the venue they are corporate and are confirmed sells, in which the venue sells to their sponsors first, ie. box seats etc.

Many large venues have corps that re sell tickets into these brokers. I have purchased pre-sale tickets in the past for Chicago and at an event in Cleveland once.

So venue sponsors as opposed to tour sponsors? And VIP and/or suite-type corporate season ticket holders?

Couganata · Post by **Couganata** » March 2, 2007 4:02 pm

yeah venue I meant Suite Owners, etc.

LastMango · Post by **LastMango** » March 2, 2007 4:38 pm

Often times, brokers pay a significant amount over face to obtain premium seats. In the industry it is referred to as "ice". The payment (or bribe) could be made to anyone who has access to the ticket inventory. Many brokers also have relationships with season ticket holders.

Ragtop Dawg · Post by **Ragtop Dawg** » March 2, 2007 10:19 pm

...what a broker is right?

Let's use JB as an example. Say a ticket broker puts up excellent seats in the first five rows for sale to see Jimmy at $1,000 apiece. Now they may have them in their possession to sell that they obtained through season ticket holders, corporate people, whatever. But then again they may not.

What they may do is wait for the seats to sell on their website or on stubhub or ebay. Then use their various resources and knowledge to locate the tickets at a MUCH cheaper price, say they find some for $500 apiece, purchase them and then send them on to their buyer. They have just made $1,000 on a pair of seats.

Plus, with brokers, you know the exact seats you are getting and if they are professionals (not the dumba** college kids trying to earn Friday night's beer money by making $10 on a sale and then sending them via a 39 cent stamp), your tickets are guaranteed.

That is the essence of being a broker of anything. They ARE a middleman and they make their money from their service. I do not really find brokers to be unethical or bad people. It is capitalism at it's best. And keep in mind, for every guaranteed money maker, there are at least 10 "dogs" that will rob these guys of their money as well. It is a very risky and very ebb and flow profession that can leave a one broke if he is not smart.

aeroparrot · Post by **aeroparrot** » March 2, 2007 10:22 pm

It COULD also be any "season ticket holders" too that could be selling them. I know in some venues, you can get season tickets similar to what sports teams do.

ragtopW · Post by **ragtopW** » March 2, 2007 10:25 pm

Quiet and Shy wrote:
Couganata wrote:These registered people, depending on the venue they are corporate and are confirmed sells, in which the venue sells to their sponsors first, ie. box seats etc.

Many large venues have corps that re sell tickets into these brokers. I have purchased pre-sale tickets in the past for Chicago and at an event in Cleveland once.
So venue sponsors as opposed to tour sponsors? And VIP and/or suite-type corporate season ticket holders?

also Hotels get Tickets to some performances
as well as people that book Tour Packages..

For the Mormon Tabernacle Show I waited for 45 minutes to get
seats.. We were offered seats from the Hotel if we needed any

surfpirate · Post by **surfpirate** » March 2, 2007 10:49 pm

Guys. Study the following 4 links.

GREAT SEATS ......... http://www.greatseats.com/tickets/Nissa ... 557405.asp
TICKETSNOW.COM ........ http://www.ticketsnow.com/TicketsList.aspx?PID=470069
GOTICKETS.COM ......... http://www.gotickets.com/concert/jimmy_ ... 470069.php
TICKETS4U.COM ......... http://www.tickets4u.com/liveinventory. ... tID=557405

Go ahead. Look closely and analyze the selection available at each of these large brokers. What do you notice? They are all selling the same tickets. Not similiar tickets. The SAME tickets. The database that they use to keep track of tickets is the same one. Take a look at the highest priced tickets. Same rows. Same number of seats. Take a look at the mid range priced tickets. Same sections, same rows, same number of seats.

This is but 4 of dozens of national broker websites. The smaller guys also advertise the same seats. There is so much trading going on between brokers. It really is a gamble on their part. A ticket selling for $2000 may only make a broker $200 because they bought the ticket from another broker for $1800. Exactly who has the ticket in hand at any given time is unknown. When you see hundreds of tickets posted on broker websites, you have to understand that in many cases it is the EXACT SAME hundreds of tickets on EVERY broker website. They are frequently just the middlemen.

moeron · Post by **moeron** » March 3, 2007 1:19 pm

I have a problem with "brokers" getting tickets the the average phans can only dream of. I have a problem with the phan getting screwed by not being able to buy these tickets BEFORE they go on sale to the general public. Years ago when I couldn't get tickets thru tickettron, It was because of the people in-line ahead of me. Now We have brokers paying the venues for the tickets that will never be offered to the public. I think that is not cpaitalism, thats unethical. If I could pay "ice" to see jimmy in the first 5 rows I probly would. Most of the phans are not offered that chance.

There was a lawsuit aganst the Chicago tribune about scalping. It seems that the trib would skim tickets that were to be sold foe the cubs. Instead of selling the tickets, the trib would pass them along to its own ticket broker. Who would mark up the tickets and sell them at a huge profit. The extra money would not be shared with the other team. More money for the trib. It seem sthat is what some venues are doing. Capitalism or not it seems unethical.

aeroparrot · Post by **aeroparrot** » March 3, 2007 1:26 pm

moeron wrote:I have a problem with "brokers" getting tickets the the average phans can only dream of. I have a problem with the phan getting screwed by not being able to buy these tickets BEFORE they go on sale to the general public. Years ago when I couldn't get tickets thru tickettron, It was because of the people in-line ahead of me. Now We have brokers paying the venues for the tickets that will never be offered to the public. I think that is not cpaitalism, thats unethical. If I could pay "ice" to see jimmy in the first 5 rows I probly would. Most of the phans are not offered that chance.

There was a lawsuit aganst the Chicago tribune about scalping. It seems that the trib would skim tickets that were to be sold foe the cubs. Instead of selling the tickets, the trib would pass them along to its own ticket broker. Who would mark up the tickets and sell them at a huge profit. The extra money would not be shared with the other team. More money for the trib. It seem sthat is what some venues are doing. Capitalism or not it seems unethical.

As I said before, you have to see how many of these people have season tickets and how many of them would sell to the brokers because they HATE Jimmy Buffett. PLUS, who's to stop someone from calling/logging into/waiting in line for Ticketmaster and getting tickets. The only way to do this is to sell tickets ONLY through the clubs but then again, some of these people will join the clubs to buy tickets for the brokers.

buffett81611 · Post by **buffett81611** » March 3, 2007 1:28 pm

surfpirate...I believe that those are all the same ticket agency...just listing lots of different ways...with the idea behind if you search for "Buffett tickets" in a search engine and you get the top 10 links all being to the "same" company, the searcher will believe that ticket prices are really that high.

With it being just a few bucks to get a domain name and a few more bucks to design different looking web sites, it makes sense for those guys to do that.

I bet Jimmy likes 9 minute sell outs. If he chose, he could find a way to make tickets fall into the hands of fans more easily. I won't go into the price of tickets, but he could actually make more money per ticket and get them into our hands. As a big techno guy, he knows this, and yet chooses not to. That's his choice, and it allows/encourages ticket brokers to make up the difference.

Post by **SMLCHNG** » March 3, 2007 1:38 pm

buffett81611 wrote:surfpirate...I believe that those are all the same ticket agency...just listing lots of different ways...with the idea behind if you search for "Buffett tickets" in a search engine and you get the top 10 links all being to the "same" company, the searcher will believe that ticket prices are really that high.

Not defending any of the companies, I'm just curious why you think they are the same companies?

Greatseats is in MD
Ticketsnow is in Crystal Lake, IL
Gottickets is in Deerfield IL
Ticketsolutions is in Overland Park, KS

Quiet and Shy · Post by **Quiet and Shy** » March 3, 2007 1:38 pm

surfpirate wrote:Guys. Study the following 4 links.

GREAT SEATS ......... http://www.greatseats.com/tickets/Nissa ... 557405.asp
TICKETSNOW.COM ........ http://www.ticketsnow.com/TicketsList.aspx?PID=470069
GOTICKETS.COM ......... http://www.gotickets.com/concert/jimmy_ ... 470069.php
TICKETS4U.COM ......... http://www.tickets4u.com/liveinventory. ... tID=557405

Go ahead. Look closely and analyze the selection available at each of these large brokers. What do you notice? They are all selling the same tickets. Not similiar tickets. The SAME tickets. The database that they use to keep track of tickets is the same one. Take a look at the highest priced tickets. Same rows. Same number of seats. Take a look at the mid range priced tickets. Same sections, same rows, same number of seats.

This is but 4 of dozens of national broker websites. The smaller guys also advertise the same seats. There is so much trading going on between brokers. It really is a gamble on their part. A ticket selling for $2000 may only make a broker $200 because they bought the ticket from another broker for $1800. Exactly who has the ticket in hand at any given time is unknown. When you see hundreds of tickets posted on broker websites, you have to understand that in many cases it is the EXACT SAME hundreds of tickets on EVERY broker website. They are frequently just the middlemen.

No question many of these transactions have several middlemen in the chain from original seller to show attendee with everyone trying to get a piece of the profit. It likely varies from sale to sale as to how much they make or lose; they're just trying to make a chunk of money across all their transactions (or they go out of business).

My rub is because there is so much profit in some tickets, the system has motivated a lot more brokers to be in business than we need (to efficiently match buyers and sellers). Profit is made through arbitrage (taking advantage of an inefficient market) vs. adding value.

And I'm still not convinced venue (and tour) sponsor and VIP/season tickets completely covers the number and quality of tickets the brokers always seem to have available. I'm skeptical that there isn't some other mechanism out there that enables venues and brokers to play the "game" the Cubs appear to have been playing....(and if that's happening and I were JB I'd be really, really ticked and would have the lawyers out faster than you can say "fraud").

Migration Michelle · Post by **Migration Michelle** » March 3, 2007 2:59 pm

I know for a fact that there wasn't much scalping going on for the Tallahassee concert. I tried to buy good seats and there weren't ANY.

I finally go through to the people at United Way who were selling "SPONSORSHIPS PACKAGES."

If you paid 5,000 or 10,000, you were guaranteed 4 or 10 of the best seats in the house. The 20,000 sponsorships were all sold out when I called.

He said that the first several rows were held out on purpose for the sponsorships. They gave the seats to sponsors on a first come, first served basis.

Anyway, the 1st two rows were gone and we could've been given any seats in the other close rows.

I told the guy that I have seen Jimmy enough and I wasn't going unless he could see me!

Staredge · Post by **Staredge** » March 4, 2007 12:03 am

buffett81611 wrote: I bet Jimmy likes 9 minute sell outs. If he chose, he could find a way to make tickets fall into the hands of fans more easily. I won't go into the price of tickets, but he could actually make more money per ticket and get them into our hands. As a big techno guy, he knows this, and yet chooses not to. That's his choice, and it allows/encourages ticket brokers to make up the difference.

I always wondered why he didn't do like the Grateful Dead did with their tix. Set up a lottery and get them out that way. Of course, he has a few

more corporate sponsors than the Dead....so maybe not.

mike6981 · Post by **mike6981** » March 4, 2007 10:06 am

i think anyone who sells tickets more the face value should be fined, this practice is truely not right. I would love to have a chance to get closer to the stage but not for $1000.00. I'll pay face value. Someday I hope to down in front and not in the lawn.

aeroparrot · Post by **aeroparrot** » March 4, 2007 10:18 am

mike6981 wrote:i think anyone who sells tickets more the face value should be fined, this practice is truely not right. I would love to have a chance to get closer to the stage but not for $1000.00. I'll pay face value. Someday I hope to down in front and not in the lawn.

Most states have laws that allow for recouping fees but doesn't specify the amount over face is the limit so you see the prices that are hundreds of dollars more than the face.

LastMango · Post by **LastMango** » March 4, 2007 11:06 am

SMLCHNG wrote:Not defending any of the companies, I'm just curious why you think they are the same companies?

Greatseats is in MD
Ticketsnow is in Crystal Lake, IL
Gottickets is in Deerfield IL
Ticketsolutions is in Overland Park, KS

You are correct...the companies are all different. The vast majority of brokers use a program which allows them to link up with all other brokers in the country. Basically, they list the tickets they have for sale, and then list all other tickets available from other brokers in the country (with a significant markup). One will see the same tickets regardless of the broker site they visit. Only the pricing will vary, as each broker can set their own markup for tickets available beyond their own inventory.

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Scalpers at ticketmaster

Scalpers at ticketmaster

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