Looked Strange To Me

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green1
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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by green1 »

lime rickie wrote:Like I said, it's important to be respectful but I don't think these were published for things like sporting events and concerts. These seem directed at formal ceremonies and thing like that. I could be wrong. Heck, I never heard about placing your hand on your heart for the anthem, I thought that was just a pledge thing.
I was never taught it as a child, or told to do it, either. But when I saw my dad do it in Fenway Park the first time he took me when I was 5 or so, you can bet I did too. The reasons for it came later, as a child, it was enough to see and emulate.

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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by Brown Eyed Girl »

lime rickie wrote:
ph4ever wrote:
lime rickie wrote:
ph4ever wrote:It's the law to remove ones hat and place their right hand over their heart:

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/36C3.txt

-HEAD-
Sec. 301. National anthem

-STATUTE-


(a) Designation. - The composition consisting of the words and
music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b) Conduct During Playing. - During a rendition of the national
anthem -
(1) when the flag is displayed -
(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at
attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart;
(B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with
their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder,
the hand being over the heart; and
(C) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at
the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until
the last note; and

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face
toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the
flag were displayed.
Aren't these guidelines for "PATRIOTIC AND NATIONAL OBSERVANCES, CEREMONIES, AND ORGANIZATIONS"? It's important to be respectful but I don't think these apply to sporting events, concerts, etc. In any case, Jake did a fabulous job with the anthem and showed his respect by pouring his heart into it. I was not offended by the hat at all, in fact, it didn't even occur to me.
Wouldn't you consider that playing the National Anthem anywhere a patrriotic observance?
Like I said, it's important to be respectful but I don't think these were published for things like sporting events and concerts. These seem directed at formal ceremonies and thing like that. I could be wrong. Heck, I never heard about placing your hand on your heart for the anthem, I thought that was just a pledge thing.
In 2007, Congress addressed this for the first time in 36 USC 301. This U.S. Code therefore created the first mandated national anthem etiquette.
Flag code applies to any event where the flag/National Anthem is presented, be it a sporting event or formal ceremony. I guess prior to 2007 there were just guidelines, mainly practicing what you'd been taught. Unfortunately we don't seem to teach flag or N.A. etiquette anymore, I see it violated daily, usually multiple times. I don't think it is out of disrespect, I think it is just truly ignorance. But it offends me just the same.

I do think the hand over your heart for the anthem has been a gray area though. I distinctly remember as a child being told that you put your hand over your heart for the pledge but not the anthem, which I never quite understood. But when I look around when the anthem is being played or sung, I see both, so apparently I'm not the only one who heard that. But now it seems to be spelled out pretty clearly that you do indeed put your hand over your heart for the anthem as well as pledge. Perhaps we need to start reteaching that in school, since Patriotism seems to have been tossed out of the curriculum. And maybe we can also start with our athletes, especially Olympians. :-?
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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by TropicalTroubador »

MammaBear wrote:
JustDucky wrote:Well, for some people, the national anthem is a drag. Like tomatoes from Mexico in December.
The national anthem is a DRAG?? May I show you some real estate in Mexico...I'll help you move!

Hubby is former military (as many on BN are)..your statement is offensive as they served with pride and continue to carry that pride with them on a daily basis.

As for the hat thingee....I will not comment on someone on stage as I really don't know the protocol. I would hope he is a professional and, having done this many times, would not set out to offend anyone.

However, I have been to many professional sporting events where men and boys do not remove their hats. I turned around at a Phillies game and smacked my 10 year old nephew in the head..I told him to remove his hat and he gave me the strangest look. My 15 year old son gets highly offended when people do not remove their hats (as do I) because he has been taught that the flag represents all of us and the sacrifices made by the military, including his father. By not removing their hats, they are personally insulting his father..............

As far as a restaurant, my husband and my son are gentlemen and do remove their hats..no questions asked. the keet used to question and say that guy over there has his hat on. My response was always the same...guess his mother did not teach him manners as a child. This is not nitpicking on the small things it is simply common courtesy and manners.
God bless America...where parents have the freedom to hit their kids for breaking rules they might not have known about. Or in this case, as it was your nephew, someone else's kids. Where did you learn *your* manners?

If I missed the part somewhere about your having a) discussed this particular item with said nephew before hitting him and b) obtained permission from his parents to administer physical punishment at any time without prior notice, my apologies for making erroneous assumptions.

To whomever posted the actual code section...thanks. *I* didn't know all that.

And don't get me started on all the flag-waving maroons after 9/11 who never learned the proper way(s) to display and honor the flag. Not to mention the ones who want to shoot people for treason for expressing opinions. That's a whole 'nother rant. :)
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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by Salukulady »

I won't wear the flag on clothing. I'll wear red, white and blue, but I won't wear the image of the flag, unless it's properly displayed on a uniform. This goes back to my childhood. During the late 60's when the hippies wore it on their butts it was considered disrespectful, (and I love hippies). Now days you can buy any type of clothing, bathing suits, underwear, etc....made out of flag material. That was unheard of when I was a child. I don't mind if someone else does, but I chose not to. It's just how I was raised.

It does bug me when athletes do not pay attention properly during the pledge and anthem at the olympics. I also don't like it when they wear Old Glory around their shoulders after winning an event. Carrying one on a pole would be just as effective and within flag etiquette. A pledge/flag etiquette course should be taught when they join the team.

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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by baadbobby »

A) Give Jake a break; he puts a whole lot of energy into the Star Spangled Banner.
B) I was always taught to remove my hat, and at Oriole Park at Camden Yards, the announcer says "gentlemen please remove your caps". This is the same place where for years, the majority of the fan base shouts a resounding "O" during the singing of the song. I have never heard a complaint, but I'm sure some of you will change that.
C) As for the "illegal" argument, well, alcohol consumption in a parking lot is illegal in most places, so I don't really know how well that argument bodes on this board. I think that respect and tradition should dictate that we continue to remove our hats, not law.
D) I have the utmost respect for our country, and those that have served.
E) Bubba played a benefit concert for some guy who didn't put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance, and quite a few people on this board voted for him.
F) The etiquette of not wearing a hat inside, is cut from the same set of principles as no white after Labor Day.
G) She had a big hat, my it was high
Had bananas and mangos all piled to the sky...
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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by MammaBear »

baadbobby wrote:A) Give Jake a break; he puts a whole lot of energy into the Star Spangled Banner.
B) I was always taught to remove my hat, and at Oriole Park at Camden Yards, the announcer says "gentlemen please remove your caps". This is the same place where for years, the majority of the fan base shouts a resounding "O" during the singing of the song. I have never heard a complaint, but I'm sure some of you will change that.
C) As for the "illegal" argument, well, alcohol consumption in a parking lot is illegal in most places, so I don't really know how well that argument bodes on this board. I think that respect and tradition should dictate that we continue to remove our hats, not law.
D) I have the utmost respect for our country, and those that have served.
E) Bubba played a benefit concert for some guy who didn't put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance, and quite a few people on this board voted for him.F) The etiquette of not wearing a hat inside, is cut from the same set of principles as no white after Labor Day.
G) She had a big hat, my it was high
Had bananas and mangos all piled to the sky...

And those of us who do remove our hats and put our hands on our heart DID NOT vote for JB'S candidate....I guess only history will tell............................................................................................................

alphabits
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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by alphabits »

baadbobby wrote:E) Bubba played a benefit concert for some guy who didn't put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance, and quite a few people on this board voted for him.
In the interest of accuracy: Obama was photographed not having placed his hand over his heart during the playing of the National Anthem NOT during the Pledge of Allegiance. Contrary to the claims in an email that was circulated at the time.

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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by MammaBear »

TropicalTroubador wrote:
MammaBear wrote:
JustDucky wrote:Well, for some people, the national anthem is a drag. Like tomatoes from Mexico in December.
The national anthem is a DRAG?? May I show you some real estate in Mexico...I'll help you move!

Hubby is former military (as many on BN are)..your statement is offensive as they served with pride and continue to carry that pride with them on a daily basis.

As for the hat thingee....I will not comment on someone on stage as I really don't know the protocol. I would hope he is a professional and, having done this many times, would not set out to offend anyone.

However, I have been to many professional sporting events where men and boys do not remove their hats. I turned around at a Phillies game and smacked my 10 year old nephew in the head..I told him to remove his hat and he gave me the strangest look. My 15 year old son gets highly offended when people do not remove their hats (as do I) because he has been taught that the flag represents all of us and the sacrifices made by the military, including his father. By not removing their hats, they are personally insulting his father..............

As far as a restaurant, my husband and my son are gentlemen and do remove their hats..no questions asked. the keet used to question and say that guy over there has his hat on. My response was always the same...guess his mother did not teach him manners as a child. This is not nitpicking on the small things it is simply common courtesy and manners.
God bless America...where parents have the freedom to hit their kids for breaking rules they might not have known about. Or in this case, as it was your nephew, someone else's kids. Where did you learn *your* manners?

If I missed the part somewhere about your having a) discussed this particular item with said nephew before hitting him and b) obtained permission from his parents to administer physical punishment at any time without prior notice, my apologies for making erroneous assumptions.

To whomever posted the actual code section...thanks. *I* didn't know all that.

And don't get me started on all the flag-waving maroons after 9/11 who never learned the proper way(s) to display and honor the flag. Not to mention the ones who want to shoot people for treason for expressing opinions. That's a whole 'nother rant. :)
Hummmm...doesn't the "Village Raise the Child"??

alphabits
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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by alphabits »

MammaBear wrote:
And those of us who do remove our hats and put our hands on our heart DID NOT vote for JB'S candidate....I guess only history will tell..........................................................................................................
I remove my hat and place my hand over my heart ...... how the hell would you know who I voted for? Patriotism isn't red or blue ..... it's red, white AND blue.

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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by MammaBear »

You know, for the cr*p being discussed here.......

Jake's version of the National Anthem brought me and the hubby to tears a few years ago, hat or no hat....... I believe the President of the United States does not need to prove his/her allegiance to the US. If the National Anthem does not move you, then my suggestion is that you move to a country whose anthem does.

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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by SMLCHNG »

alphabits wrote: I remove my hat and place my hand over my heart ...... how the hell would you know who I voted for? Patriotism isn't red or blue ..... it's red, white AND blue.
8) I'll second that.

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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by Salukulady »

alphabits wrote:
baadbobby wrote:E) Bubba played a benefit concert for some guy who didn't put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance, and quite a few people on this board voted for him.
In the interest of accuracy: Obama was photographed not having placed his hand over his heart during the playing of the National Anthem NOT during the Pledge of Allegiance. Contrary to the claims in an email that was circulated at the time.
Thank you Bits.
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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by MammaBear »

alphabits wrote:
MammaBear wrote:
And those of us who do remove our hats and put our hands on our heart DID NOT vote for JB'S candidate....I guess only history will tell................................................................................................................
I remove my hat and place my hand over my heart ...... how the hell would you know who I voted for? Patriotism isn't red or blue ..... it's red, white AND blue.
MY POINT EXACTLY

alphabits
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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by alphabits »

MammaBear wrote:
alphabits wrote:
MammaBear wrote:
And those of us who do remove our hats and put our hands on our heart DID NOT vote for JB'S candidate....I guess only history will tell........................................................................................................
I remove my hat and place my hand over my heart ...... how the hell would you know who I voted for? Patriotism isn't red or blue ..... it's red, white AND blue.
MY POINT EXACTLY
Actually your point seemed to be exactly the opposite ..... that anyone that was a real patriot ("those of us who do remove our hats ....") didn't vote for Obama.

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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by MammaBear »

alphabits wrote:
MammaBear wrote:
alphabits wrote:
MammaBear wrote:
And those of us who do remove our hats and put our hands on our heart DID NOT vote for JB'S candidate....I guess only history will tell.............................................................................................
I remove my hat and place my hand over my heart ...... how the hell would you know who I voted for? Patriotism isn't red or blue ..... it's red, white AND blue.
MY POINT EXACTLY
Actually your point seemed to be exactly the opposite ..... that anyone that was a real patriot ("those of us who do remove our hats ....") didn't vote for Obama.

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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by baadbobby »

I knew this would heat up between the time I posted at work and when I got home. Fire up the popcorn! [smilie=cheeky-grin.gif]
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alphabits
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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by alphabits »

MammaBear wrote:
alphabits wrote:
MammaBear wrote:
alphabits wrote:
MammaBear wrote:
And those of us who do remove our hats and put our hands on our heart DID NOT vote for JB'S candidate....I guess only history will tell.............................................................................................
I remove my hat and place my hand over my heart ...... how the hell would you know who I voted for? Patriotism isn't red or blue ..... it's red, white AND blue.
MY POINT EXACTLY
Actually your point seemed to be exactly the opposite ..... that anyone that was a real patriot ("those of us who do remove our hats ....") didn't vote for Obama.
Now I'm really confused ..... was there supposed to be a response or did you really mean to just repeat my post? [smilie=huh-ani.gif] [smilie=huh-ani.gif] [smilie=huh-ani.gif]

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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by ph4ever »

alphabits wrote:Now I'm really confused [smilie=huh-ani.gif] [smilie=huh-ani.gif] [smilie=huh-ani.gif]
Bits confused?? Never happens I tell you!!! :lol: :lol:

I'm confused too
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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by Salukulady »

I think her first sentence in her first post was suppose to have a question mark after it. If you read it like a question, it sounds incredulous, like she was telling the person, you can't assume......but I don't know.....now I'm confused too.......
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Re: Looked Strange To Me

Post by MammaBear »

My point was..just because JB's candidate did not do it does not make it right...I believe the candidate was wrong - not too much there to convince me otherwise...

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