all real estate experts and full'o crap think they're expert

OceanCityGirl · Post by **OceanCityGirl** » July 25, 2006 1:24 pm

I'm working on a book and I'm looking for some info.
Can you think of an instance where an older (150yo) document could show up that would cause an upset in a real estate agency, developer, city counsel member, etc. It is a town where the sub-divisions of properties for condos and the rights to do such a thing are very important as they quadruple a properties value. The city also holds quite a bit of property for which they generate an income as well. It is a town where property values have skyrocketed. (coastal area)
Thanks if you have a suggestion. I have a few ideas rattling around. They don't have to be exactly true, however realistic enough to be believable.

SharkOnLand · Post by **SharkOnLand** » July 25, 2006 1:45 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by "cause an upset", but there's a case here locally (Colorado) where a large ranch has recently lost a lawsuit brought on by heirs and successors-in-title of former settlers that came in the mid-1800's...

They were given pieces of land, and also given grazing/woodcutting/hunting rights on what is now a multi-million dollar ranch... Back in the 1970's or so, a rich guy bought the ranch, and cut off all access to the property, the locals sued to get access back. After a LONG (almost 40 year) court battle, the courts have ruled in favor of the local landowners.

I'll try and dig up some news articles, and link them...

OceanCityGirl · Post by **OceanCityGirl** » July 25, 2006 1:47 pm

wow that's just what i'm looking for. Imagine a deed that surfaces giving some family ocean front rights right in the heart of the board walk and public beaches. Definitely worth killing for.
Some local beaches were sold to people for the purpase of whaling business. You could imagine if they were never truly deeded back to the city.

Prthd119 · Post by **Prthd119** » July 25, 2006 1:48 pm

I've seen it happen here....!

Incoming later...

Off to the Dr..

(I worked on the mortgage end...Did closings..and at the top producing Real Estate office in this county....)

Yes..coastal..
Well..It's an island..you can't get much more coastal...

Cubbie Bear · Post by **Cubbie Bear** » July 25, 2006 1:57 pm

I have seen big developements shut down entirely because 1700/1800's era cemetaries were found to have been located there. Maybe someone could find a document that verifies something like that

SharkOnLand · Post by **SharkOnLand** » July 25, 2006 2:01 pm

I only read the first few pages, so I can't vouch for the complete accuracy of it, but it gives at least a general idea of what I posted earlier...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_56640768

The article is from 1999 as well, so it doesn't have the recent (2003-2004) developments that the locals were granted access...

OceanCityGirl · Post by **OceanCityGirl** » July 25, 2006 2:09 pm

you guys are so great. This introduced a totally new angle into my book. If I ever finish, get an agent to look at it, get it published, etc. I know I'll have something to put in the folks you want to thank page, (acknowledgements)

PHAW Webmistress · Post by **PHAW Webmistress** » July 25, 2006 2:28 pm

The city of Denver also has an old ordinance for downtown properties - in fact it is a hand written recorded ordinance dated back in the early 1900's - very kewl if you like that sort of thing

- whereby no building can be built in downtown that would block the capital building's view of the mountains.

OceanCityGirl · Post by **OceanCityGirl** » July 25, 2006 2:35 pm

i love that sort of thing. The city of Phila used to have an ordinance where nothing could be built taller then Billy Penn's hat on city hall. They overturned it and put up sky scrapers.

ragtopW · Post by **ragtopW** » July 25, 2006 8:25 pm

How about a deed that included a clause
that the property never be sold.. MUST be kept in the Family??

Lundah · Post by **Lundah** » July 25, 2006 10:22 pm

I've got an easement agreement on my "lot" (it's a city lot, so basically a postage stamp) from the Wisconsin Telephone Company that dates back to 1917...

OceanCityGirl · Post by **OceanCityGirl** » July 25, 2006 11:17 pm

How about a deed that included a clause
that the property never be sold.. MUST be kept in the Family??

I wonder if in that case once a family member sold it the clause was null?

ragtopW · Post by **ragtopW** » July 25, 2006 11:31 pm

OceanCityGirl wrote:
How about a deed that included a clause
that the property never be sold.. MUST be kept in the Family??
I wonder if in that case once a family member sold it the clause was null?

most of what I know of these cases (little enough)
are the old Spanish Land Grant deeds in California..
and isn't that what a Title search is for??
<< not knowing that much..

SharkOnLand · Post by **SharkOnLand** » July 26, 2006 12:08 am

OceanCityGirl wrote:
How about a deed that included a clause
that the property never be sold.. MUST be kept in the Family??
I wonder if in that case once a family member sold it the clause was null?

It would depend... If there was what is called a "reverter clause", if the property was sold to a non-family member, the ownership of the property may revert to the previous owner... not the one that sold to the non-family member, but the owner before that...

I'm in Title Insurance...

PirateJohn · Post by **PirateJohn** » July 26, 2006 12:02 pm

ragtopW wrote:
OceanCityGirl wrote:
How about a deed that included a clause
that the property never be sold.. MUST be kept in the Family??
I wonder if in that case once a family member sold it the clause was null?
most of what I know of these cases (little enough)
are the old Spanish Land Grant deeds in California..
and isn't that what a Title search is for??
<< not knowing that much..

Leases are still popular in Mexico and other nations. Folks don't "own" land but you certainly can get a 100 year lease, and for those of us who are middle aged 100 years sounds like a long time to me.

Dunno much about the realities of Spanish land grants in California but there's an old Vincent Price movie out there somewhere where Vincent's character becomes the unwitting owner of much of California (to the anger of the current residents who are now faced with paying rentals on "their" land) only to find that the documents granting his family the property were forgeries. At which point the Californians get to be REALLY hostile.

blackjacks wife · Post by **blackjacks wife** » July 26, 2006 10:14 pm

PirateJohn wrote:
ragtopW wrote:
OceanCityGirl wrote:
How about a deed that included a clause
that the property never be sold.. MUST be kept in the Family??
I wonder if in that case once a family member sold it the clause was null?
most of what I know of these cases (little enough)
are the old Spanish Land Grant deeds in California..
and isn't that what a Title search is for??
<< not knowing that much..

Leases are still popular in Mexico and other nations. Folks don't "own" land but you certainly can get a 100 year lease, and for those of us who are middle aged 100 years sounds like a long time to me.

Dunno much about the realities of Spanish land grants in California but there's an old Vincent Price movie out there somewhere where Vincent's character becomes the unwitting owner of much of California (to the anger of the current residents who are now faced with paying rentals on "their" land) only to find that the documents granting his family the property were forgeries. At which point the Californians get to be REALLY hostile.

Lead Leases are extreamly commom in Hawaii where land is so valuable and rare. You get a 100 year lease for the property and actually pay a rent on it in addition to the mortgage that you take out on the McMansion you put on that land.