Cash for clunkers...

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buffettbride
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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by buffettbride »

I'm not sure I care so much 'cause even though my "clunker" is paid off, we don't want another car payment.

Oddly enough, our clunker is a 24 mpg 1998 Chevy Cavalier that is beat to hell and it doesn't qualify. Our 2003 Toyota Tacoma at 18 mpg does. Go figure.
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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by weirdo0521 »

buffettbride wrote:I'm not sure I care so much 'cause even though my "clunker" is paid off, we don't want another car payment.

Oddly enough, our clunker is a 24 mpg 1998 Chevy Cavalier that is beat to hell and it doesn't qualify. Our 2003 Toyota Tacoma at 18 mpg does. Go figure.
It's real easy to figure, it's about mpg not the age of a vehicle.
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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by green1 »

weirdo0521 wrote:
buffettbride wrote:I'm not sure I care so much 'cause even though my "clunker" is paid off, we don't want another car payment.

Oddly enough, our clunker is a 24 mpg 1998 Chevy Cavalier that is beat to hell and it doesn't qualify. Our 2003 Toyota Tacoma at 18 mpg does. Go figure.
It's real easy to figure, it's about mpg not the age of a vehicle.
But the mpg changes downwards as the vehicle ages.

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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by V-town Fin Truck »

I just don't think that it is my job as a taxpayer to help other people afford new cars. It just isn't right. And I would bet that half the people doing this are buying more expensive vehicles than they need, and they are doing it on my dime.

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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by oceanstate »

V-town Fin Truck wrote:I just don't think that it is my job as a taxpayer to help other people afford new cars. It just isn't right. And I would bet that half the people doing this are buying more expensive vehicles than they need, and they are doing it on my dime.
It's cheaper than the houses you bought them a few months ago.

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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by V-town Fin Truck »

oceanstate wrote:
V-town Fin Truck wrote:I just don't think that it is my job as a taxpayer to help other people afford new cars. It just isn't right. And I would bet that half the people doing this are buying more expensive vehicles than they need, and they are doing it on my dime.
It's cheaper than the houses you bought them a few months ago.
True. I didn't want to buy those for them either. Nobody is paying for my house for me, and I don't want them to. That's part of what makes it mine.

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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by weirdo0521 »

V-town Fin Truck wrote:I just don't think that it is my job as a taxpayer to help other people afford new cars. It just isn't right. And I would bet that half the people doing this are buying more expensive vehicles than they need, and they are doing it on my dime.
You should read the terms of the program. Everyone still has to qualify for financing the same way as they would normally, so they still have to be able to "afford" what they are buying. A larger number of more efficient cars on the road benefits everyone.

http://www.cars.gov/how

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_1 ... unkers.pdf
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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by V-town Fin Truck »

weirdo0521 wrote:
V-town Fin Truck wrote:I just don't think that it is my job as a taxpayer to help other people afford new cars. It just isn't right. And I would bet that half the people doing this are buying more expensive vehicles than they need, and they are doing it on my dime.
You should read the terms of the program. Everyone still has to qualify for financing the same way as they would normally, so they still have to be able to "afford" what they are buying. A larger number of more efficient cars on the road benefits everyone.

http://www.cars.gov/how

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_1 ... unkers.pdf
I don't care about the terms. $4500 is coming from the federal government. That is money we pay them to govern, not to buy cars for people, regardless of someones ability to pay for it. I am all for people buying cars that get good mileage, its just not something taxes should be paying for.

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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by weirdo0521 »

V-town Fin Truck wrote:
weirdo0521 wrote:
V-town Fin Truck wrote:I just don't think that it is my job as a taxpayer to help other people afford new cars. It just isn't right. And I would bet that half the people doing this are buying more expensive vehicles than they need, and they are doing it on my dime.
You should read the terms of the program. Everyone still has to qualify for financing the same way as they would normally, so they still have to be able to "afford" what they are buying. A larger number of more efficient cars on the road benefits everyone.

http://www.cars.gov/how

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_1 ... unkers.pdf
I don't care about the terms. $4500 is coming from the federal government. That is money we pay them to govern, not to buy cars for people, regardless of someones ability to pay for it. I am all for people buying cars that get good mileage, its just not something taxes should be paying for.

It does generate business, and sales tax. Good for consumers, good for dealers and manufacturers, and good for the scrap industry. Have you ever thought about all the subsidies the government issues in agriculture? This is a drop in the bucket compared to some of those programs.
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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by Skibo »

weirdo0521 wrote: It does generate business, and sales tax. Good for consumers, good for dealers and manufacturers, and good for the scrap industry. Have you ever thought about all the subsidies the government issues in agriculture? This is a drop in the bucket compared to some of those programs.
Bad for taxpayers. It increases the national debt which will lead to a bigger crash in the future. (near) It isn't like there is a surplus that is being returned to taxpayers, the debt is being increased with inflation adjusted bonds. Ohhhhhh...this is good, because we are going to be facing massive inflation shortly. Not only will we have to pay back the bonds with interest but we will also repay the devaluation of the $$. I haven't heard many people praising agriculture subsidies so your because one thing is bad the other is ok argument doesn't work with me. The drop in the bucket excuse is also why we are where we are now.

Today the Obama administration decided to hold back the sales data for the program. I wonder why the open administration is blocking this. Rumor is that many more foreign made vehicles were sold than US produced.
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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by LIBuffettFan »

There is a dealership near me that was on the news the yesterday and said they are no longer participating in the program. The US Gov't already owes them about $55,000 for the cars they have taken in and they havent seen a dime yet. Their concern is that they may never get paid after rendering the cars they took in on trade as useless and may lose money.

I think the Gov't should just go back to being the Gov't., get out of the auto industry, stop pretending your doctors and financial gurus. Most of them are laywers and interestingly enough, the only area they haven't flexed their muscles in yet is tort reform and controlling bogus lawsuits which cost taxpayers tons of money every year in increased premiums.

I hope everyone is taking notes to refesh their memories come 2010.
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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by LIBuffettFan »

weirdo0521 wrote:
V-town Fin Truck wrote:
weirdo0521 wrote:
V-town Fin Truck wrote:I just don't think that it is my job as a taxpayer to help other people afford new cars. It just isn't right. And I would bet that half the people doing this are buying more expensive vehicles than they need, and they are doing it on my dime.
You should read the terms of the program. Everyone still has to qualify for financing the same way as they would normally, so they still have to be able to "afford" what they are buying. A larger number of more efficient cars on the road benefits everyone.

http://www.cars.gov/how

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_1 ... unkers.pdf
I don't care about the terms. $4500 is coming from the federal government. That is money we pay them to govern, not to buy cars for people, regardless of someones ability to pay for it. I am all for people buying cars that get good mileage, its just not something taxes should be paying for.

It does generate business, and sales tax. Good for consumers, good for dealers and manufacturers, and good for the scrap industry. Have you ever thought about all the subsidies the government issues in agriculture? This is a drop in the bucket compared to some of those programs.

This isnt a huge windfall for the scrap industry, they gernerate most of there money by selling used car parts, in this situation. They are only allowed to sell the tires, catalytic converter, radiator and battery from the cars they take in, everything else has to be destroyed so they are making most of there money in scrap metal rather than parts.
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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by phjrsaunt »

This conversation has so totally clarified my thoughts on all the bailout programs:

Our job as taxpayers is.......guess what???? Are you ready????

Our job as taxpayers is to PAY TAXES. It's so simple!

All the smoke and mirrors had my vision clouded for a while there! [smilie=asa.gif]
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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by V-town Fin Truck »

phjrsaunt wrote:This conversation has so totally clarified my thoughts on all the bailout programs:

Our job as taxpayers is.......guess what???? Are you ready????

Our job as taxpayers is to PAY TAXES. It's so simple!

All the smoke and mirrors had my vision clouded for a while there! [smilie=asa.gif]
I am not real clear on what you are trying to say here.... It sounds like you are suggesting that we should just keep paying our taxes, and let the government do what they think is best... Please clarify.

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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by Bicycle Bill »

LIBuffettFan wrote:This isnt a huge windfall for the scrap industry, they gernerate most of there money by selling used car parts, in this situation. They are only allowed to sell the tires, catalytic converter, radiator and battery from the cars they take in, everything else has to be destroyed so they are making most of there money in scrap metal rather than parts.
There's a very disturbing video in this link — http://jalopnik.com/5327580/video-how-t ... oplay=true — that shows how they are rendering these vehicles undriveable by replacing the oil with "liquid glass" and then running it until it seizes up (about a five minute process). If you are a fan of Volvos or just can't stand to see (what appears to me, anyway) good machinery senselessly wrecked, I suggest you give it a pass.

Whose bright idea was it that these body parts, interior pieces, seats, glass, etc. couldn't be salvaged? Needless, senseless waste, plain and simple. And where is a lot of this non-metallic stuff going to end up? Either up in smoke or landfills.

I love my country, but I'm becoming more and more disgusted with my government.
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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by phjrsaunt »

V-town Fin Truck wrote:
phjrsaunt wrote:This conversation has so totally clarified my thoughts on all the bailout programs:

Our job as taxpayers is.......guess what???? Are you ready????

Our job as taxpayers is to PAY TAXES. It's so simple!

All the smoke and mirrors had my vision clouded for a while there! [smilie=asa.gif]
I am not real clear on what you are trying to say here.... It sounds like you are suggesting that we should just keep paying our taxes, and let the government do what they think is best... Please clarify.
well, let me say first that I'm no political expert, just your average (currently enemplyed) Josephine. But it seems like if the government needs more money, they should just raise our taxes. Historically, that's been something the government is hesitant to do. If we as a country need more money, then we as citizens are theoretically obligated to provide it.

Again, I'm no wizard at this stuff. It just seems to me that all this bailout stuff is smoke and mirrors to an extent.

I'm not trying to start an argument, or even a heated discusssion. Heck, this is as close to participating in a political discussion in MANY months.
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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by blackjack »

phjrsaunt wrote:
V-town Fin Truck wrote:
phjrsaunt wrote:This conversation has so totally clarified my thoughts on all the bailout programs:

Our job as taxpayers is.......guess what???? Are you ready????

Our job as taxpayers is to PAY TAXES. It's so simple!

All the smoke and mirrors had my vision clouded for a while there! [smilie=asa.gif]
I am not real clear on what you are trying to say here.... It sounds like you are suggesting that we should just keep paying our taxes, and let the government do what they think is best... Please clarify.
well, let me say first that I'm no political expert, just your average (currently enemplyed) Josephine. But it seems like if the government needs more money, they should just raise our taxes. Historically, that's been something the government is hesitant to do. If we as a country need more money, then we as citizens are theoretically obligated to provide it.

Again, I'm no wizard at this stuff. It just seems to me that all this bailout stuff is smoke and mirrors to an extent.

I'm not trying to start an argument, or even a heated discusssion. Heck, this is as close to participating in a political discussion in MANY months.

See the thing is, that if you or I "need more money" we can't raise taxes, we have to work harder, work smarter and/or tighten our belts. These are things this administration also seems reticent to do.
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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by oceanstate »

phjrsaunt wrote:
V-town Fin Truck wrote:
phjrsaunt wrote:This conversation has so totally clarified my thoughts on all the bailout programs:

Our job as taxpayers is.......guess what???? Are you ready????

Our job as taxpayers is to PAY TAXES. It's so simple!

All the smoke and mirrors had my vision clouded for a while there! [smilie=asa.gif]
I am not real clear on what you are trying to say here.... It sounds like you are suggesting that we should just keep paying our taxes, and let the government do what they think is best... Please clarify.
well, let me say first that I'm no political expert, just your average (currently enemplyed) Josephine. But it seems like if the government needs more money, they should just raise our taxes. Historically, that's been something the government is hesitant to do. If we as a country need more money, then we as citizens are theoretically obligated to provide it.

Again, I'm no wizard at this stuff. It just seems to me that all this bailout stuff is smoke and mirrors to an extent.

I'm not trying to start an argument, or even a heated discusssion. Heck, this is as close to participating in a political discussion in MANY months.
Or they could quit spending so much. That's what Mom and Dad taught me I should do when the bank account is low.

I'm not sure as a citizen I'm obligated to cough up as much money as the government needs for whatever clever ideas they think they need to fund.

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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by green1 »

phjrsaunt wrote:well, let me say first that I'm no political expert, just your average (currently enemplyed) Josephine. But it seems like if the government needs more money, they should just raise our taxes. Historically, that's been something the government is hesitant to do. If we as a country need more money, then we as citizens are theoretically obligated to provide it.

Again, I'm no wizard at this stuff. It just seems to me that all this bailout stuff is smoke and mirrors to an extent.

I'm not trying to start an argument, or even a heated discusssion. Heck, this is as close to participating in a political discussion in MANY months.
In the short term, raising taxes does raise tax revenues. But then the reality of higher taxes hits and people have to deal with that. Small business oweners are typically hit the hardest, so their businesses are hit the hardest. When taxes increase small businesses either become larger, stop growing or fold. But there are few that grow larger. So now all of that tax revenue is gone, as is the tax revenue of the employees. Businesses in general, large and small, hold off on raises and new hires. Those tax revenues remain the same or lessen. Businesses also hold off on major purchases until the economic picture clears. The tax revenue from those purchases is now gone. There has never been an instance where an increase in taxes has corresponded to a lasting increase in tax revenues. The only way that has occured is through cutting taxes and encouraging businesses to grow and thrive. JFK new this, Reagan knew this, W knew this.

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Re: Cash for clunkers...

Post by LIBuffettFan »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
LIBuffettFan wrote:This isnt a huge windfall for the scrap industry, they gernerate most of there money by selling used car parts, in this situation. They are only allowed to sell the tires, catalytic converter, radiator and battery from the cars they take in, everything else has to be destroyed so they are making most of there money in scrap metal rather than parts.
There's a very disturbing video in this link — http://jalopnik.com/5327580/video-how-t ... oplay=true — that shows how they are rendering these vehicles undriveable by replacing the oil with "liquid glass" and then running it until it seizes up (about a five minute process). If you are a fan of Volvos or just can't stand to see (what appears to me, anyway) good machinery senselessly wrecked, I suggest you give it a pass.

Whose bright idea was it that these body parts, interior pieces, seats, glass, etc. couldn't be salvaged? Needless, senseless waste, plain and simple. And where is a lot of this non-metallic stuff going to end up? Either up in smoke or landfills.

I love my country, but I'm becoming more and more disgusted with my government.
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Wow...I like cars and that was just a sad video to watch, and to knwo it can't even be used for parts is even sadder.
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