The future of healthcare in the US?

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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by ph4ever »

East Texas Parrothead wrote:Thanks, Connie. It's a b**** to have choice like these. :(
I wish I could help!!! Her doctors office should be able to contact the drug companies to see if they will give assistance. Sometimes PPA or whatever it is that Montel used to push can help.
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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by Elrod »

UAHparrothead wrote:
Elrod wrote: Administrators that don't contribute to patient care add to the cost of healthcare. Michelle Obama was a VP at the University of Chicago Hospital while her husband was a state senator. After he was elected to the U.S. Senate, her salary was doubled to over $300,000. That same amount would have paid a couple of ER physicians or 4-5 Registered Nurses.
Isn't that a redistribution of wealth? Isn't it the business of the hospital how much they pay their employees? Are you suggesting that the government regulate the salaries of hospital employees? Michelle Obama was VP of Community and External Affairs not necessarily an "administrator". She did block an attempt to recruit black girls to be guinea pigs for a vaccine. Her raise came with her promotion from Associate Dean to VP.
Not a redistribution of wealth but a more appropriate use of funds to care for patients. That is presumably the purpose for hospitals.

If you want to call it the hospital's business how much they pay their employees keep in mind that her position does not provide any patient care, raises the expenses of the hospital and higher healthcare costs make it harder for some people to get insurance coverage. It begins to be the public's business when Michelle's salary is doubled and then her husband the Senator requests a $1 million earmark for the hospital. [1]

Another of her accomplishments as VP of Community and External Affairs was a "strategy to steer poor and uninsured patients with less serious injuries to other facilities." [2] The strategy saved her employer money and raised the cost of healthcare: "Under federal reimbursement rules for facilities that operate in certain neighborhoods, the government pays more money to treat Medicaid and other poor patients than if the U. of C. treated them."

I stand by my original statement that she did not contribute to patient care and added to the cost of healthcare.

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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by UAHparrothead »

Elrod wrote:
UAHparrothead wrote:
Elrod wrote: Administrators that don't contribute to patient care add to the cost of healthcare. Michelle Obama was a VP at the University of Chicago Hospital while her husband was a state senator. After he was elected to the U.S. Senate, her salary was doubled to over $300,000. That same amount would have paid a couple of ER physicians or 4-5 Registered Nurses.
Isn't that a redistribution of wealth? Isn't it the business of the hospital how much they pay their employees? Are you suggesting that the government regulate the salaries of hospital employees? Michelle Obama was VP of Community and External Affairs not necessarily an "administrator". She did block an attempt to recruit black girls to be guinea pigs for a vaccine. Her raise came with her promotion from Associate Dean to VP.
Not a redistribution of wealth but a more appropriate use of funds to care for patients. That is presumably the purpose for hospitals.

If you want to call it the hospital's business how much they pay their employees keep in mind that her position does not provide any patient care, raises the expenses of the hospital and higher healthcare costs make it harder for some people to get insurance coverage. It begins to be the public's business when Michelle's salary is doubled and then her husband the Senator requests a $1 million earmark for the hospital. [1]


Another of her accomplishments as VP of Community and External Affairs was a "strategy to steer poor and uninsured patients with less serious injuries to other facilities." [2] The strategy saved her employer money and raised the cost of healthcare: "Under federal reimbursement rules for facilities that operate in certain neighborhoods, the government pays more money to treat Medicaid and other poor patients than if the U. of C. treated them."

I stand by my original statement that she did not contribute to patient care and added to the cost of healthcare.
My post was somewhat sarcastic but I find it funny that in one breath conservatives (perhaps not your specifically, but in general) talk about capitalism and people should get paid what their worth and all that and then in the next breath complain about someone's salary especially when that person is a Democrat. I don't think any is worth that kind of money doing anything. And that "steering poor people" to other hospitals could also be seen as reducing crowding at the UC hospital and thereby reducing waiting time and thereby increasing patient care. It also was a cost saving move. I guess it is all in how you look at it. I also find it funny that the senator that made the criticism is A) a Republican and B) from another state, granted Iowa is right next door. I don't know the ends and outs of Michelle Obama's involvement with this program or with the UC hospital in general. Maybe if I did I wouldn't like it either. Perhaps this is a symptom of the wider disease (pardon the pun). Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to find any politician or wife of a politician with no questionable connections to the health care industry.

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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by Skibo »

Any government plan will be more expensive and more inefficient than any system we currently have. One of the reasons the current insurance is so expensive is because of government requirements. In addition to the regular incompetence, every bill gets add ons to satisfy a special interest and adds more bureaucracy. The proposed death counseling for seniors in the current bill adds a new level of cost that didn't exist before. The proposed plan places does not allow insurers to sign new policies after the govt plan starts. This means if you change your job then you are now insured with the govt. This will eventually run the private insurers out of business.

My real issue with this whole thing is the added cost and that our economy cannot sustain a program of this magnitude. We have a record deficit and national debt, our country is not generating wealth at a rate that will even give us a chance to catch up and we are adding additional cost to the system. Raising taxes on people that make over $250k will not be enough, besides the people that earn high wages are already being overtaxed. If you make less and think your taxes will not be raised, just remember the no tax on people under $250k promise turned into a lie when the federal cigarette tax was signed.

As far as the current cost is concerned, considering the regulation that is placed on the medical industry, the cost of insurance is very reasonable. The newer equipment and treatments are expensive. The treatment that is received is outstanding for the cost. As far as people that have to make decisions to have treatment or go bankrupt, I'd rather that I make that decision than some government agent make that decision for me. Well actually I won't have the option to go bankrupt, I'll just get a happy pill.
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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by Tiki Bar »

I don't know what the future is, and I'm not qualified to provide the solution. But I am qualified to b**** and moan about what is being proposed to be shoved down my throat, because I'm a single mom who works for a small company that does not provide insurance, and I've got a laundry list of pre-existing conditions.

I was shopping health insurance last spring, and it's not pretty. I currently pay $6,000.00 / year for just me, and that's paying the employer portion and the employee portion of the insurance I had through my ex-husband's job. That's a bargain compared to what I was finding, but if you ask me, it's ridiculous. It also runs out in a little over a year.

I'm nothing on the political scale, so my opinion is mine, not my party's.

But what's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong. Should health care be more affordable and accessible? Yes. Should me and my doctor be in charge of my medical choices? Yes.

I wish my government would pull back on the throttle, stop, and take some deep breaths. Rather than whip something out and run with it, maybe accept and analyze multiple options from people qualified to offer them. Take time to review what might be best for everyone, and the big picture. Listen to the people. I feel like our government is absolutely suffocating American citizens by ramrodding their faulty "reform" through the system with reckless abandon. And bottom line, if they feel their solution is good enough for us, it should be good enough for government leaders and their families as well.

I remember years ago, when a high school coach told me I was leading our team down the toilet. :o :o Initially, I laughed about it, but then I stopped and considered what she was saying, and changed my ways. Based on what they've done since taking office, I feel our current administration is leading our country down the toilet. I only hope enough people speak up in time to have them stop and consider what they are saying.

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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by pair8head »

Bottom line.

If the Congress and Senate was forced to use the same health plans that the rest of the United States Citizenry then you better believe they would work harder to fix the system. As long as they have the I'm a member of the government and therefore entitled to better health care then you attitude then we are screwed.


Just my 2 cents.
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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by UAHparrothead »

Skibo wrote: The proposed death counseling for seniors in the current bill adds a new level of cost that didn't exist before.
This proposal which is causing so much controversy allows the process for making living will to be covered by Medicare. And was proposed by a... Republican.

Tiki, no one is ramrodding anything. The bill will lay dormant through the August recess which will give people plenty of time to make up stuff there isn't there and make people afraid of it. By the way, did you hear that Obama wants to murder old people and then make them into food for poor people. "It's people. Soylent Green is made out of people. They're making our food out of people. Next thing they'll be breeding us like cattle for food. You've gotta tell them. You've gotta tell them!"

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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by Tiki Bar »

UAHparrothead wrote:Tiki, no one is ramrodding anything. The bill will lay dormant through the August recess which will give people plenty of time to make up stuff there isn't there and make people afraid of it.
People wouldn't be afraid of it if there wasn't anything to be afraid of.

And recess or not, I don't think it should even be a bill. Where's Plan B and Plan C to consider first?
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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by green1 »

UAHparrothead wrote:
Skibo wrote: TTiki, no one is ramrodding anything. The bill will lay dormant through the August recess which will give people plenty of time to make up stuff there isn't there and make people afraid of it.
Brad, has your rep read the entire bill? Mine hasn't, I asked him. There are watchdog groups on both sides of the aisle who are simply asking the reps to read the bill before they vote on it. But Pelosi has been pushing votes. it's been all over the headlines in the Washington Post. So, yes, they are trying to ram it through, like they rammed through the stimulus.

Why haven't the reps read it? Why vote on something they haven't read, and therefore cannot possible understand? People are asking for details but no one can give details because no one has bothered to look into the details.
Why?

That is why I am afraid of this bill. Who wrote it? What's in it? What is in the details?

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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by UAHparrothead »

Tiki Bar wrote:
UAHparrothead wrote:Tiki, no one is ramrodding anything. The bill will lay dormant through the August recess which will give people plenty of time to make up stuff there isn't there and make people afraid of it.
People wouldn't be afraid of it if there wasn't anything to be afraid of.

And recess or not, I don't think it should even be a bill. Where's Plan B and Plan C to consider first?
I hear there is a little monster in Mexico called the chupacabra, they've take pictures of it and everything. Should we be afraid of it?

People would be afraid of their own shadow if someone told them to be afraid of it. It's call mob mentality. Today it is worse because we get e-mails and 24/7 news to spin facts and make up stuff to push their own agenda. The sickening thing to me is that politicians, on the left and on the right, use the fear of people to gain an advantage. I think that is sick, but that is politics in the 21st Century.

Where is plan B and plan C? Where better question is where is the Republican plan? There is no Republican plan because they don't have a plan and haven't had a plan for anything since 2003 and the War in Iraq and even then it was a bad plan. They spend their time pointing that the Dems and telling people everything their doing is wrong. They spend their time telling people that Obama wants to euthanize their grandparents. That leaves little time for actual organization and implementation of a healthcare plan. Of course Republicans were against healthcare reform in 1994 and they were against Medicare in the 60s. So here we are.

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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by UAHparrothead »

green1 wrote:
UAHparrothead wrote:
Skibo wrote: TTiki, no one is ramrodding anything. The bill will lay dormant through the August recess which will give people plenty of time to make up stuff there isn't there and make people afraid of it.
Brad, has your rep read the entire bill? Mine hasn't, I asked him. There are watchdog groups on both sides of the aisle who are simply asking the reps to read the bill before they vote on it. But Pelosi has been pushing votes. it's been all over the headlines in the Washington Post. So, yes, they are trying to ram it through, like they rammed through the stimulus.

Why haven't the reps read it? Why vote on something they haven't read, and therefore cannot possible understand? People are asking for details but no one can give details because no one has bothered to look into the details.
Why?

That is why I am afraid of this bill. Who wrote it? What's in it? What is in the details?
My rep is a blue dog and so he's against...reading is irrelevant for him.

By the way, I am not promoting the Obama plan, but I do speak out when fear is used as a tactic and when facts are misrepresented. I believe that Obama, just like Bush, should be given a fair shake. Unfortunately, politics has become a battle between two extremes. You're red or blue. Conservative of liberal. You are all one thing or all the other and if you are one you must hate and demonize the other.

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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by Tiki Bar »

green1 wrote:That is why I am afraid of this bill. Who wrote it? What's in it? What is in the details?
Got some time to kill? Good luck!

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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by Tiki Bar »

UAHparrothead wrote:Unfortunately, politics has become a battle between two extremes. You're red or blue. Conservative of liberal. You are all one thing or all the other and if you are one you must hate and demonize the other.
I disagree. I think there are plenty of people who are like me, who are pretty much clueless, but go to work every day, and try to provide for their families, and maybe have a little fun along the way. I think Leno's Jaywalking segments proved that to be true. I know nothing about politics, including what red or blue mean, or left or right for that matter. And most of what I know about government I learned from Schoolhouse Rock while watching Saturday morning cartoons.

But I live here, and pay my taxes, and deserve to have my government do what's outlined in the Preamble.

I've known plenty of people over the years who are consumed with politics, but not me. I also know plenty of people who are seemingly just like me, and we have as much at stake with all this as everyone else. We need to have a voice without being constituents to the political parties.
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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by Skibo »

UAHparrothead wrote:
Skibo wrote: The proposed death counseling for seniors in the current bill adds a new level of cost that didn't exist before.
This proposal which is causing so much controversy allows the process for making living will to be covered by Medicare. And was proposed by a... Republican.

Tiki, no one is ramrodding anything. The bill will lay dormant through the August recess which will give people plenty of time to make up stuff there isn't there and make people afraid of it. By the way, did you hear that Obama wants to murder old people and then make them into food for poor people. "It's people. Soylent Green is made out of people. They're making our food out of people. Next thing they'll be breeding us like cattle for food. You've gotta tell them. You've gotta tell them!"
I really don't care if a republican or democrat that added this section, there is also a lot more to it than a living will consultation. Read the bill, this provision is page 425-430. Maybe you haven't been paying attention but our great leader was insisting that a bill be passed before the August recess in July. Nancy Pelosi was doing all she could to get the bill passed by the deadline, I think that can qualify as ramrodding.
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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by UAHparrothead »

Tiki Bar wrote:.
I've known plenty of people over the years who are consumed with politics, but not me. I also know plenty of people who are seemingly just like me, and we have as much at stake with all this as everyone else. We need to have a voice without being constituents to the political parties.
I think you're right. Unfortunately government and politics is no longer for the people, by the people, and of the people but for the corporation, by the corporation, and of the corporation. They care about two things...how much money do you have and how loud is your voice and how many people do you have listening to you?

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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by ph4ever »

Skibo wrote:
UAHparrothead wrote:
Skibo wrote: The proposed death counseling for seniors in the current bill adds a new level of cost that didn't exist before.
This proposal which is causing so much controversy allows the process for making living will to be covered by Medicare. And was proposed by a... Republican.

Tiki, no one is ramrodding anything. The bill will lay dormant through the August recess which will give people plenty of time to make up stuff there isn't there and make people afraid of it. By the way, did you hear that Obama wants to murder old people and then make them into food for poor people. "It's people. Soylent Green is made out of people. They're making our food out of people. Next thing they'll be breeding us like cattle for food. You've gotta tell them. You've gotta tell them!"
I really don't care if a republican or democrat that added this section, there is also a lot more to it than a living will consultation. Read the bill, this provision is page 425-430. Maybe you haven't been paying attention but our great leader was insisting that a bill be passed before the August recess in July. Nancy Pelosi was doing all she could to get the bill passed by the deadline, I think that can qualify as ramrodding.
What's the section? I'm looking at it online and page doesn't mean a thing. Thanks
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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by Skibo »

UAHparrothead wrote: By the way, I am not promoting the Obama plan, but I do speak out when fear is used as a tactic and when facts are misrepresented. I believe that Obama, just like Bush, should be given a fair shake. Unfortunately, politics has become a battle between two extremes. You're red or blue. Conservative of liberal. You are all one thing or all the other and if you are one you must hate and demonize the other.
I think you are confusing the opinions of the majority with red/blue politics in this issue. While it is true that most Republicans and conservatives are opposed to this, it isn't because they hate people (especially democrats) it is because they believe in limited government and personal responsibility and accountability. There are also an awful lot of democrats opposed to this specifically working class democrats that are happy with the coverage they currently have. Really blaming the republicans for the delays on this now is silly, The democrats control the house and senate and can pass anything they want at this point. Of course they better hurry and ramrod this stuff through because the 2010 primaries are coming up and there are a lot of incumbents scrambling to keep their jobs.
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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by Skibo »

ph4ever wrote:
Skibo wrote:
UAHparrothead wrote:
Skibo wrote: The proposed death counseling for seniors in the current bill adds a new level of cost that didn't exist before.
This proposal which is causing so much controversy allows the process for making living will to be covered by Medicare. And was proposed by a... Republican.

Tiki, no one is ramrodding anything. The bill will lay dormant through the August recess which will give people plenty of time to make up stuff there isn't there and make people afraid of it. By the way, did you hear that Obama wants to murder old people and then make them into food for poor people. "It's people. Soylent Green is made out of people. They're making our food out of people. Next thing they'll be breeding us like cattle for food. You've gotta tell them. You've gotta tell them!"
I really don't care if a republican or democrat that added this section, there is also a lot more to it than a living will consultation. Read the bill, this provision is page 425-430. Maybe you haven't been paying attention but our great leader was insisting that a bill be passed before the August recess in July. Nancy Pelosi was doing all she could to get the bill passed by the deadline, I think that can qualify as ramrodding.

What's the section? I'm looking at it online and page doesn't mean a thing. Thanks

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

it is 425-430 on this pdf which is the actual house document.
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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by ph4ever »

Tiki Bar wrote:
UAHparrothead wrote:Unfortunately, politics has become a battle between two extremes. You're red or blue. Conservative of liberal. You are all one thing or all the other and if you are one you must hate and demonize the other.
I disagree. I think there are plenty of people who are like me, who are pretty much clueless, but go to work every day, and try to provide for their families, and maybe have a little fun along the way. I think Leno's Jaywalking segments proved that to be true. I know nothing about politics, including what red or blue mean, or left or right for that matter. And most of what I know about government I learned from Schoolhouse Rock while watching Saturday morning cartoons.

But I live here, and pay my taxes, and deserve to have my government do what's outlined in the Preamble.

I've known plenty of people over the years who are consumed with politics, but not me. I also know plenty of people who are seemingly just like me, and we have as much at stake with all this as everyone else. We need to have a voice without being constituents to the political parties.

Don't you think that being clueless is part of the problem? No offense to you since you admit to being clueless. Clueless people get an email and think that it's true because they respect the person that sent it to them. Sometimes those emails are in fact true, others they're nothing but fear mongering. Clueless people will accept the risky expensive medicine their doctor prescribed and take it without being aware of any possible side affects. Heck many times the doctors themselves aren't aware of the negative sides because the drug companies sales rep just don't mention that - wouldn't be good salesmanship would it? Those negative side effects also bring up the cost of medical care through several different means be it the added cost of healthcare they will experience as a result of long term negative sides as well as the various lawsuits the drug manufacturers face. Many times there are older cheeper drugs that can be prescribed instead of the costly newer ones that were fast tracked and are being pushed by sales reps to doctors to prescribe. We, the consumer, pay for those perks and gifts the sales reps give the doctors.

Information is readily available at our fingertips. Yes everyone deserves to have a voice however it should be an informed voice. Not a voice that has been developed by either side's propoganda and fear mongering. It's way past time for Americans to be more proactive in their healthcare decisions rather than just putting 100% fath and choice in their physicians who are currently being influenced by the drug manufacturers.
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Re: The future of healthcare in the US?

Post by ph4ever »

Skibo wrote:
ph4ever wrote:
Skibo wrote:
UAHparrothead wrote:
Skibo wrote: The proposed death counseling for seniors in the current bill adds a new level of cost that didn't exist before.
This proposal which is causing so much controversy allows the process for making living will to be covered by Medicare. And was proposed by a... Republican.

Tiki, no one is ramrodding anything. The bill will lay dormant through the August recess which will give people plenty of time to make up stuff there isn't there and make people afraid of it. By the way, did you hear that Obama wants to murder old people and then make them into food for poor people. "It's people. Soylent Green is made out of people. They're making our food out of people. Next thing they'll be breeding us like cattle for food. You've gotta tell them. You've gotta tell them!"
I really don't care if a republican or democrat that added this section, there is also a lot more to it than a living will consultation. Read the bill, this provision is page 425-430. Maybe you haven't been paying attention but our great leader was insisting that a bill be passed before the August recess in July. Nancy Pelosi was doing all she could to get the bill passed by the deadline, I think that can qualify as ramrodding.

What's the section? I'm looking at it online and page doesn't mean a thing. Thanks

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

it is 425-430 on this pdf which is the actual house document.
Thanks - I was looking at it from a different source that didn't have pages.
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