Terrorists win again

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Skibo
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Terrorists win again

Post by Skibo »

Linky
A proposal to build a mosque steps from Ground Zero received the support of a downtown committee despite some loved ones of 9/11 victims finding it offensive.

The 13-story mosque and Islamic cultural center was unanimously endorsed by the 12-member Community Board 1's financial district committee.
The financial district seems like a very expensive place to put a "cultural center". If I were putting up this type of building, I might attempt to put it closer to a neighborhood where my target audience lived, at least I wouldn't put it up on some of the most expensive real estate in NYC.
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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by green1 »

Skibo wrote:Linky
A proposal to build a mosque steps from Ground Zero received the support of a downtown committee despite some loved ones of 9/11 victims finding it offensive.

The 13-story mosque and Islamic cultural center was unanimously endorsed by the 12-member Community Board 1's financial district committee.
The financial district seems like a very expensive place to put a "cultural center". If I were putting up this type of building, I might attempt to put it closer to a neighborhood where my target audience lived, at least I wouldn't put it up on some of the most expensive real estate in NYC.
Pun intended or not?

Either way, I feel that building this mosque next to the site of the twin towers is completely inappropriate

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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by Dutch Harbor PH »

Kinda like building a fast breeder reactor at ground zero in Hiroshima........
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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by SchoolGirlHeart »

***shaking head slowly***

Un-flippin-believable...

Money speaks louder than the voices of the 9/11 dead.... :-?
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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by UAHparrothead »

I know this might not be a popular opinion, but I believe that a place like the Cordova Institute that promotes interfaith dialogue between Islam, Christianity, and Judaism would honor those killed on 9/11. Those people who flew those airplanes into the World Trade Center want a divide between Islam and the West. I think that this institute works to bridge that divide. The Cordova Institute works with the US and Sudanese governments in order to alleviate the suffering in Darfur. They are part of the Charter for Compassion http://charterforcompassion.org/ which calls for all religions and peoples to treat one another with mutual respect. I think this kind of work honors the dead of 9/11.

Skibo, you titled this thread "Terrorists win again" you are more right than you know. When we breed hate within ourselves against a people for any reason those who set 9/11 in motion get what they want. The end game for Al Qaeda was not to simply murder thousands of people. It was to create new and lasting tensions between Islam and the West. It was to cause Americans to fear and reject anything that resembles Islam. One should not equate terrorism with all of Islam just as they should, not equate all of Christianity with the Spanish Inquisition, or all German people with the Holocaust. I truly believe that the majority of Muslims are peaceful people who want to live and work and raise their families.

I did not know anyone in the Twin Towers and I do not claim to speak for them nor can I understand the pain and anger still felt by those who lost loved ones. But anger and resentment should not be the legacy of those who lost their lives. We must move forward.

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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by flyboy55 »

I have to agree with Brad.

Choosing to let nineteen dead 9/11 hijackers serve as representatives for an entire religion (the world's largest at this point) is not only wrong, it plays into the hands of extremists and demagogues by allowing them to claim a religious authority they don't really possess.

I can imagine nothing more disturbing to Osama bin Laden's world view than seeing Muslims embraced by the very nation he attacked, and Muslims in turn embracing the ideal of religious tolerance and freedom that was one of the founding principles of this nation.

I also don't think the memory of those that died on that day is well-served by the rest of us succumbing to religious bigotry.

I think the title of this thread is itself an invitation to indulge in this kind of behavior.

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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by green1 »

flyboy55 wrote:I have to agree with Brad.

Choosing to let nineteen dead 9/11 hijackers serve as representatives for an entire religion (the world's largest at this point) is not only wrong, it plays into the hands of extremists and demagogues by allowing them to claim a religious authority they don't really possess.
I disagree Flyboy.

It is not just the events on 9/11.
It is the USS Cole
The embassy bombings
The World Trade Center attack in 1993
The Bali Bombings
The destruction of Hindu relics in Afghanistan
Daniel Pearl
Nick Berg
The atrocities in the Phillipines

It is more then 19 dead hijackers, and they do have authority in their religion. To say that they don't is analogous to Chamberlain and his statement that Germany 1938 had no intentions for further conquest. It is to ignore a basic fact. Radical Islam is not just a fringe element. And even if it was, that fringe is still millions strong.

I do support a reconciliation between the religions. But I also think ground zero is the wrong place for a 30 story tower demanding it. Put it in DC, put it near the UN, put it across the river.

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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by Skibo »

The Cordoba Institute was founded by Feisal Abdul Rauf. This is the man that was quoted in 2004 stating that the US and the West must acknowledge the harm they have done to Muslims before terrorism can end. Our dear leader did that shortly after taking office. There have been more reported attacks since the apology tour than before. It is interesting that he chose Cordoba as the name of this institution. Cordoba Spain is the location muslims refer to as the golden age of Islam. During this time Christians, Jews and Muslims lived together in harmony according to the writings of Rauf "Jews and Christians living under Muslim rule simply had to pay a tax to finance their protection by their Muslim overlords." I am sure it is only a coincidence that this new building plans to celebrate its grand opening on 9/11/11. Seems to me that this leader intent on fostering understanding among people sure has made a lot of statements and actions that are more divisive. I've reviewed a number of his past interviews and writings. He presents himself as an apologist for the terrorists more than a person attempting to bring two parties together.
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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by ph4ever »

THANK YOU BRAD AND FLYBOY55!!!! You both so eloquently said what I thought the moment I saw this thread. I think too many people equate the Muslim faith with terrorism. Fred Phelps proclaims to be a Christian - under the same principle then one should assume that all Christians are bigoted hate filled people.
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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by wiscoleeds »

A mosque at Ground Zero is completely inappropriate.

Are there any links to facts about this decision to build? Before commenting more I'd like some information.

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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by The Remittance Man »

Skibo wrote:The Cordoba Institute was founded by Feisal Abdul Rauf. This is the man that was quoted in 2004 stating that the US and the West must acknowledge the harm they have done to Muslims before terrorism can end. Our dear leader did that shortly after taking office.
Since Barack Obama never said anything remotely like what you credit him with here, I'm loath to assume your characterization of Rauf is any more accurate.

And some awfully nasty things have been done in the name of Christianity as well. You might as well argue that there shouldn't be a church anywhere in North America because of what was done to the Native Americans.
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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by TropicalTroubador »

The Remittance Man wrote:
Skibo wrote:The Cordoba Institute was founded by Feisal Abdul Rauf. This is the man that was quoted in 2004 stating that the US and the West must acknowledge the harm they have done to Muslims before terrorism can end. Our dear leader did that shortly after taking office.
Since Barack Obama never said anything remotely like what you credit him with here, I'm loath to assume your characterization of Rauf is any more accurate.

And some awfully nasty things have been done in the name of Christianity as well. You might as well argue that there shouldn't be a church anywhere in North America because of what was done to the Native Americans.
Or to the Jews, not just in Nazi Germany but in various places throughout the Old World over the last couple thousand years. And in both cases, we're not talking mere thousands dead; we are talking *millions*.

"Terrorism," per Merriam-Webster, means "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion." Note that the definition does *not* distinguish the nationality or religion of those who utilize it.

When we act out of fear or anger, then the terrorists have indeed succeeded. If we continue to maintain a free society, to respect each other's right to hold and express their opinions whether we agree with those opinions or not, and to live our lives in joy and happiness...terrorism can never win, no matter how much sh*t the terrorists blow up.

That includes supporting people's right to worship or not worship as they choose, in the manner they do or don't choose.
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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by The Lost Manatee »

I have to say that I find the title to this thread to be inappropriate and inaccurate.

To paint any large group with such a brush based on the actions of a small group would be like saying that all Jews are terrible people because of the actions of a few extremist attacking and burning a mosque, which did happen in Israel last year.

The vast majority of attacks against the US are not religiously motivated, rather they are politically motivated. They are a reaction to actions that have been taken by the US since the mid 60's. Some are related to the issues between Israel and her neighbors, some relate to our propping up regimes that are not democratic and that use brutal techniques to put down democratic forces, some relate to what is perceived to be interference in the internal affairs of countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and then there are the two wars. In the view of much of the Muslim world, we have declared war on them by blindly support Israel, Mubarek in Egypt, etc., etc. While we don't view it that way, that is how a big chunk of the world sees it.

As for the location, in the short run, it would seem to be very insensitive to build it there. In decades, it might be an inspired choice.
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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by UAHparrothead »

http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinion ... l?page=all

This is what happens when racism meets the mob mentality.

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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by ragtopW »

to avoid a ban.. I will just say this..
I miss my Muslim Neighbors.. they were the best..
clean and respectful kids.. clean place.. great cook outs..
(no booze but come on)
now some of the Christians I have known?????
not so much..
good/bad people in every group..
that is all

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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by pietaster »

UAHparrothead wrote:http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinion ... l?page=all

This is what happens when racism meets the mob mentality.
American citizens exercising their Constitutional rights of freedom of assembly and free speech. Yes, that's just terrible. Shame on them.

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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by UAHparrothead »

pietaster wrote:
UAHparrothead wrote:http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinion ... l?page=all

This is what happens when racism meets the mob mentality.
American citizens exercising their Constitutional rights of freedom of assembly and free speech. Yes, that's just terrible. Shame on them.
And assaulting two other American citizens like a mob with pitch forks. Read the whole article or go eat some pie.

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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by UAHparrothead »

At one point, a portion of the crowd menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men who were speaking Arabic and were thought to be Muslims.

"Go home," several shouted from the crowd.

"Get out," others shouted.

In fact, the two men – Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry — were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called "The Way." Both said they had come to protest the mosque.

"I'm a Christian," Nassralla shouted to the crowd, his eyes bulging and beads of sweat rolling down his face.

But it was no use. The protesters had become so angry at what they thought were Muslims that New York City police officers had to rush in and pull Nassralla and El Masry to safety.

"I flew nine hours in an airplane to come here," a frustrated Nassralla said afterward.

The incident underscores how contentious — and, perhaps, how irrational — the debate over the mosque has become.

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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by pietaster »

UAHparrothead wrote:
pietaster wrote:
UAHparrothead wrote:http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinion ... l?page=all

This is what happens when racism meets the mob mentality.
American citizens exercising their Constitutional rights of freedom of assembly and free speech. Yes, that's just terrible. Shame on them.
And assaulting two other American citizens like a mob with pitch forks. Read the whole article or go eat some pie.
I read the article. It mentions no assault. If there were any assaults, I would assume the police officers who were present would have made an arrest or several.

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Re: Terrorists win again

Post by UAHparrothead »

"The protesters had become so angry at what they thought were Muslims that New York City police officers had to rush in and pull Nassralla and El Masry to safety."
The only reason why these men were not beaten and/or killed was because the NYPD responded quickly. The title of this thread is "Terrorist Win Again" well you're damn right they are winning. Bin Laden hears about incidents like this and laughs his ass off because this is PRECISELY what he wanted to happen when he ordered those 19 murders to fly those planes into the WTC. We are better than this and that is why it makes me so angry. We are better than this.

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