The Bible

LaTda · Post by **LaTda** » March 30, 2006 3:53 pm

again, my own thoughts here

I don't buy the hard or soft theory; once you cross the street & proclaim that you don't believe in God - period it gets to the you're pregnant or not state " in my book"

pun intended

Soraya · Post by **Soraya** » March 30, 2006 3:57 pm

LaTda wrote:again, my own thoughts here

I don't buy the hard or soft theory; once you cross the street & proclaim that you don't believe in God - period it gets to the you're pregnant or not state " in my book" pun intended

Yes, it is the little bit pregnant thing....but many hard athests I know would not consider new evidence if it showed up....while a soft athiest would.

Both do not believe in any supernatural Gods.....both are 'not pregnant' but the one is willing to possibly get pregnant in the future if things change, while the other would never consider it.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » March 30, 2006 4:09 pm

LaTda wrote:Sam, Faith can also be defined as accepting as true something which one has been told by someone who is believed to be trustworthy.

I came to this conclusion, I don't have faith that the idea of other athiests works for me also.

& I don't have faith in Drs, Police, Government.

If I had faith in my Dr I'd absolve them of the need for malpractice ins..
Ask Rodney King about faith in the Police or trust me as a former cop that you don't want to place your faith in the hands of all cops part of the reason I'm not a cop BTW~ I couldn't live with the double standards..

& don't get me started in faith in the Gov't; I have NONE of that
I do NOT believe at ALL that atheism is a religion & 'almost' take offense to believers (whom I have no problem with at all) who try to pin the moniker of religion on an atheist~ no offense, please, just my thoughts

Mike
Their is Blind Faith also. Though not everything requires blind faith. I mean you were in the military.... you had faith in yourself and your capabilities and of your weapon... and that it would go BANG when needed or called upon. Didn't you?

I only used doctors or police, EMS, Military, as examples.
Not every doctor or policeman or EMS worker or military member is great at what they do.

If you don't trust your doctor to do what he/she feels is the correct treatment. then find a different one. Many people frequently do so.
I mean I know I have went to different doctors because i did not feel like I was being helped and found the new doctor was actually more of what I would call a doctor ...than just someone that has the title. Understand?

Certainly the people are only just that, and are subject to whatever mistakes that allows them to make. They are not perfect. We as a society in general place trust and Faith in such workers to do the right or correct thing. We have far too much evidence of people not being competent or doing the right thing at the time. Then again "One bad apple does not spoil the whole barrel of apples."

As far as faith in Goverment.....Yep! I agree with you there! No matter what party is in or out of power.
How are you and the boat doing and getting along? PM me about it. I might have some useful info about some boating things.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » March 30, 2006 4:21 pm

Soraya,
Okies well enough, with all you posted earlier about not being able to prove a negative. Why is up to every Christian to prove their belief, that is a God and see his works everywher....from the miracle of conception becoming a human being, from a caterpillar becoming a butterfly to a gorgeous sunset or sunrise to a rainbow to the beauty of a flower to whatever? And an Atheist has to prove nothing? I have never met an Atheist that was being shot at. Some people may have...I haven't.

You claimed the Atheist has nothing to prove. I don't question what an aetheist believes or doesn't....but your "hard Atheists" certainly sound like they have as much blind faith in their beliefs that God does not exist, as a fundalmetalist hard core Bible thumping Pentecostal person believes that God does actually exist.

If the Christian cannot prove God does exist, then why shouldn't an Atheist prove that God Does not? Simply because one cannot prove a negative? What was it Sherlock Holmes said about "If one eliminates all of the possiblities...."?

BTW, who do Atheist cry out to whenthey are having really great sex? Their own name perhaps?

tommcat327 · Post by **tommcat327** » March 30, 2006 4:35 pm

Soraya wrote:I guess the animosity you are seeing comes from the very common theist behavior of telling the atheist that they don’t really know…they really have ‘faith’ they just don’t realize it yet….or that it’s just ‘misplaced’. It’s very distasteful for one adult to tell another that they don’t know what they believe. Would you like it if I told you that you don’t believe in God, that you are really worshipping the Great Pumpkin, you just don’t’ know it yet? (LOL….you’d be quite right to tell me to bug off at that point!)

i could not agree more.
i actually had a very close friend tell me that i couldnt be an atheist because she knows me and i'm a good person and that i'm just confused. she was so upset by me explaining my lack of faith that she started crying.

Tiki Bar · Post by **Tiki Bar** » March 30, 2006 4:36 pm

If I may interject here... I'm all for natural transgressions in topics. However, this thread is about the Bible, and people's thoughts pertaining to it. Defining faith, and proving and disproving the existance of a god or gods is taking things a bit astray, I'd say.

tommcat327 · Post by **tommcat327** » March 30, 2006 4:41 pm

Sam wrote:Soraya,
Okies well enough, with all you posted earlier about not being able to prove a negative. Why is up to every Christian to prove their belief, that is a God and see his works everywher....from the miracle of conception becoming a human being, from a caterpillar becoming a butterfly to a gorgeous sunset or sunrise to a rainbow to the beauty of a flower to whatever? And an Atheist has to prove nothing? I have never met an Atheist that was being shot at. Some people may have...I haven't.

You claimed the Atheist has nothing to prove. I don't question what an aetheist believes or doesn't....but your "hard Atheists" certainly sound like they have as much blind faith in their beliefs that God does not exist, as a fundalmetalist hard core Bible thumping Pentecostal person believes that God does actually exist.

If the Christian cannot prove God does exist, then why shouldn't an Atheist prove that God Does not? Simply because one cannot prove a negative? What was it Sherlock Holmes said about "If one eliminates all of the possiblities...."?

BTW, who do Atheist cry out to whenthey are having really great sex? Their own name perhaps?

sam, how could someone prove that something isnt there?
prove to me that there isn't an invisible man behind you right now. i claim there is, prove me wrong.

christians are claiming that there is a god, that leaves the burden of proof on them.

and as far as your "no atheists in foxholes" theory goes, all i can say is that if i truly believed in some sort of god that controlled my life i would be pretty upset that he put me in a position to get shot at.

tommcat327 · Post by **tommcat327** » March 30, 2006 4:44 pm

Tiki Bar wrote:If I may interject here... I'm all for natural transgressions in topics. However, this thread is about the Bible, and people's thoughts pertaining to it. Defining faith, and proving and disproving the existance of a god or gods is taking things a bit astray, I'd say.

defining what the bible is to people and discussing faith go hand in hand in my opinion. a bible makes a nice doorstop to me, that probably has something to do with my beliefs, no?

tommcat327 · Post by **tommcat327** » March 30, 2006 4:47 pm

jimolliemom wrote:
Gosh, all I did was state MY opinion. That IS what Brad wanted. No one has to agree with me. Frankly, I feel happy with who I am, what I believe and how I live and raise my kids. We pray before meals, we pray before we sleep and we pray for others. I am not asking you to agree. No one ever said I was pushing my beliefs off on anyone and furthermore, I was not bashing any other religion/non-religion or foundation. This is what I think and how I do it.

and i wasnt bashing you, all i did was state my opinions

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » March 30, 2006 4:57 pm

UAHparrothead wrote:I understand where you are coming from, but I still see atheism is a belief system. Here's why, an atheist says that God does not exist, now there is no proof that God does not exist and therefore it is a belief not a fact.

It's impossible to prove something doesn't exist. Impossible. So using that as a standard of what defines a belief system would be flawed logic.

Try to prove to me that dinosaurs don't still exist. Or unicorns. Or little magical fairies that secretly leave pennies on the ground for me to find.

No matter how tenacious a debater you may be, the best you'll ever do in that scenario is to conclude that it is HIGHLY improbable that such a creature exists.

My atheism is not a belief system - it's a conclusion. My conclusion. There is no belief system that comes with that - just the absense of the pre-fab beliefs that come with faith. The absense of that belief system makes me explore for myself what it means to be moral and mortal and everything else, but the process is not part and parcel with my conclusion that that there is no god.

I see the bible as a series or morality tales, much like the morality tales you find in many other religions. I don't doubt that Jesus probably existed much like The Buddha did, but of course, like the Jews, I don't think he was the son of God.

But you know what? If it helps anyone here get through the day or gives them the strength to get through the hard times, then more power to them.

I'd never take it literally.

And Sam? I don't scream when I have great sex, but I certainly throw the word god around as much as the more colorful exclamations. "God Damnit" is a pretty common expression, and I doubt that many who use it are actually wishing for god to rain damnation down on something. It's just a colloquialism.

SchoolGirlHeart · Post by **SchoolGirlHeart** » March 30, 2006 4:58 pm

tommcat327 wrote:i could not agree more.
i actually had a very close friend tell me that i couldnt be an atheist because she knows me and i'm a good person and that i'm just confused. she was so upset by me explaining my lack of faith that she started crying.

Wow.

I'm not an atheist, but I absolutely agree with you on this one, Tomm. Being a good person doesn't make you confused.... It makes you a good person who happens to be an atheist.

Lee must be really busy.... I figured by now he would have poked his nose in here and said hi. I remember about a year ago, saying something like, "Lee, I don't want to offend you, but I'll sure be praying about that." (I don't even remember the subject now.... Maybe a phin power thread....) For those who don't know him, Lee will also tell you he's an atheist. His friendly response rocked me right back on my heels. He said something to the effect of, "What makes you think I don't pray? I just don't pray to a god.

" I learned something that day.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » March 30, 2006 4:59 pm

tommcat327 wrote:
Sam wrote:Soraya,
Okies well enough, with all you posted earlier about not being able to prove a negative. Why is up to every Christian to prove their belief, that is a God and see his works everywher....from the miracle of conception becoming a human being, from a caterpillar becoming a butterfly to a gorgeous sunset or sunrise to a rainbow to the beauty of a flower to whatever? And an Atheist has to prove nothing? I have never met an Atheist that was being shot at. Some people may have...I haven't.

You claimed the Atheist has nothing to prove. I don't question what an aetheist believes or doesn't....but your "hard Atheists" certainly sound like they have as much blind faith in their beliefs that God does not exist, as a fundalmetalist hard core Bible thumping Pentecostal person believes that God does actually exist.

If the Christian cannot prove God does exist, then why shouldn't an Atheist prove that God Does not? Simply because one cannot prove a negative? What was it Sherlock Holmes said about "If one eliminates all of the possiblities...."?

BTW, who do Atheist cry out to whenthey are having really great sex? Their own name perhaps?
sam, how could someone prove that something isnt there?
prove to me that there isn't an invisible man behind you right now. i claim there is, prove me wrong.

christians are claiming that there is a god, that leaves the burden of proof on them.

and as far as your "no atheists in foxholes" theory goes, all i can say is that if i truly believed in some sort of god that controlled my life i would be pretty upset that he put me in a position to get shot at.

Tom, I am knocking anyone for blief or lack there of. I am merely pointing out If I have to prove the existence of God to anyone, because they are my own beliefs, what makes an atheist any different from having to prove their beliefs, that God does not exist?

If there was an "invisible man behind me" would he not have mass and still take space? Would he not leave behind footprints?

You know some of the things of my past....you don't see me abandoning my Faith about them, do you?

Who knows why people get put in such situations? They themselves allowed it to happen? Fate? Karma? God? Just a whole lot of coinky-dikies just managed to happened? That is up to each individual to decide. As for as wondering what sort of God got you into the situation, May well go through your head. I suppose there is more that I could say but it won't make any difference and I am not trying to convert or save or preach to anyone.

Can we just go get some beer and chill and maybe do some fishing or some shooting? Come on down, I will let you you shoot my .460 Weatherby.

SchoolGirlHeart · Post by **SchoolGirlHeart** » March 30, 2006 4:59 pm

OMG!!!!!!!

Look who showed up while I was typing......

Hi Lee!

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » March 30, 2006 5:04 pm

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:OMG!!!!!!!

Look who showed up while I was typing......

Hi Lee!

tommcat327 · Post by **tommcat327** » March 30, 2006 5:04 pm

Sam wrote:
If there was an "invisible man behind me" would he not have mass and still take space? Would he not leave behind footprints?

i dont know, i've never seen an invisible man. just as nobody has ever seen a god but they will swear on their lives that one exists.

and yes sam, we can always have a couple cold ones. even when discussing the fact that there is no god

tommcat327 · Post by **tommcat327** » March 30, 2006 5:07 pm

one other thing that's always troubled me. where did most people get their current belief in god or religion. from your parents when you were a child most likely.
arent these the same people that convinced you that there was an easter bunny, tooth fairy and santa claus??

i'd be a bit skeptical about anything else they told me

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » March 30, 2006 5:09 pm

tommcat327 wrote:one other thing that's always troubled me. where did most people get their current belief in god or religion. from your parents when you were a child most likely.
arent these the same people that convinced you that there was an easter bunny, tooth fairy and santa clause?? i'd be a bit skeptical about anything else they told me

Seems to me there's more anecdotal evidence supporting the existence of Santa than there is god. Santa leaves notes and cookie crumbs.

SchoolGirlHeart · Post by **SchoolGirlHeart** » March 30, 2006 5:10 pm

tommcat327 wrote:one other thing that's always troubled me. where did most people get their current belief in god or religion. from your parents when you were a child most likely.
arent these the same people that convinced you that there was an easter bunny, tooth fairy and santa clause?? i'd be a bit skeptical about anything else they told me

Sure, and that's why like most good teenagers, I rebelled. And then thought things through on my own and came to my own conclusions. I decided I believed in God but could do without the Catholic Church. I'm sure my mother thinks I'm going straight to hell.

tommcat327 · Post by **tommcat327** » March 30, 2006 5:10 pm

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:
tommcat327 wrote:i could not agree more.
i actually had a very close friend tell me that i couldnt be an atheist because she knows me and i'm a good person and that i'm just confused. she was so upset by me explaining my lack of faith that she started crying.
Wow.

I'm not an atheist, but I absolutely agree with you on this one, Tomm. Being a good person doesn't make you confused.... It makes you a good person who happens to be an atheist.

yep, far too many people equate being religious with being a good person and cant accept the fact that the 2 are not related. why i will never know

SchoolGirlHeart · Post by **SchoolGirlHeart** » March 30, 2006 5:11 pm

Key Lime Lee wrote:Seems to me there's more anecdotal evidence supporting the existence of Santa than there is god. Santa leaves notes and cookie crumbs.

Well, of course he does..... Just before he goes back up the chimney.