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ejr wrote: gambling can be an addiction, and one is never cured of an addiction.

so is cocaine but they let strawberry back in how many times?

and i find it funny that i haven't heard anyone talk about keeping sosa out of the hall.by corking his bat(like many others probably do) he cheated on the game while going for a record.in my opinion that disrespects the game and the fans far far worse than gambling on baseball

Key Lime Lee wrote:I dunno, I think any player who whines about $$ is, in some ways, disrespecting the sport of baseball.

The hall is about his contributions as a player, not his faults as a human.

you said it right KLL. Let the man in. Remember, let he without sin cast the first stone.

Pete Rose should have NEVER been banned from the Hall of Fame. Managing, playing maybe. But did his gambling actually hurt any team he bet against ? Did he personally get to sway the playing the way to help him win? NO! Enough said. This man got banned for something ridiculous when they let these idiots like Otis Nixon, Daryl Strawberry back in after MULTIPLE drug charges. Give me a break! and our very own Atlanta Manager Bobby Cox beat his wife, got convicted and STILL manages. Wow what a weird society that we can do drugs, beat women and still be upheld in society but gambling.. ooooooh.. the ULTIMATE SIN!

tommcat327 wrote:

RAGTOP wrote:your right the Hall is filled with alcoholics, spousal abusers etc... the difference is Pete Rose disrespected the sport of baseball, the very sport that is trying to decide whether or not he should be inducted into their Hall. Having a gambling problem was his personal issue but as soon as he bet on baseball it became very public and for good reason.

Pete Rose please just go away!

so disrespecting a game(and remember,it IS only a game) is worse than being a drunk,drug addict or beating your wife?

Ya that's what I mean ... your not even close to getting my point. Like I said put him in the HOF but never let him on a field. The guy lied for 14 years and then admits it in November of 2002 but wants to wait to make it public until his book comes out so he can cash in on it and still has yet to apologize... oh and for good measure he still gambles yet he says he no longer has a problem

Every society has rules...if you break the rules you are punished appropriately..every baseball locker room has a sign that it is forbidden to bet on baseball..there is no gray area..he knew he was wrong when he did it and he knew he was wrong while he was jerking the baseball populus around with his constant BS about not having done it...now all of a sudden he wants to come clean at the same time his book is being released?? F Pete Rose. He may have been one of the greatest ballplayers ever, but he's a self absorbed, self serving jock who broke the rules..He shouldn't get away with that.

I was watching ESPN last night and one face asked if the other face
had heard the Rumor that Pete was really lieing about betting in a last
ditch effort to get into the hall . I was laffing pretty hard on that one.

BuPHett wrote:Every society has rules...if you break the rules you are punished appropriately..every baseball locker room has a sign that it is forbidden to bet on baseball..there is no gray area..he knew he was wrong when he did it and he knew he was wrong while he was jerking the baseball populus around with his constant BS about not having done it...now all of a sudden he wants to come clean at the same time his book is being released?? F Pete Rose. He may have been one of the greatest ballplayers ever, but he's a self absorbed, self serving jock who broke the rules..He shouldn't get away with that.

THERE MAY NOT BE A SIGN BUT I'D BE WILLING TO BET IT'S A WELL KNOWN FACT THAT CORKING YOUR BAT IS ILLEGAL.I DONT SEE SOSA GETTING THE SAME TREATMENT.IF IT IS DECIDED THAT ROSE SHOULD BE BANNED FROM BASEBALL FOR BREAKING THE RULES OK.BUT I WOULD EXPECT TO SEE EVERYONE WHO HAS BROKEN THE RULES(AND LAW IN SOME CASES) BANNNED FOR THE GAME FOR LIFE.I'D JUST LIKE TO SEE EVERYONE TREATED EQUALLY

I have a question I know this is going to peeve some pholks here
but If gambling is said to tarnish the coat of baseball why was
MJ allowed to join a minor team during the uproar over his
uhhhh gambling debts?????

ragtopW wrote:I have a question I know this is going to peeve some pholks here
but If gambling is said to tarnish the coat of baseball why was
MJ allowed to join a minor team during the uproar over his
uhhhh gambling debts?????

See previous example I set above. How in the name of anything right is it that cocaine addicts are allowed BACK playing baseball after MULTIPLE times of arrest, conviction and yet Pete Rose is barred from everything after only one incident. Oh and I am not necessarily a Rose fan but what I am a fan of is doing someone fairly. He was done WRONG!

I never was a Reds fan or avid follower, but noticing what he could do was easy. Pete Rose was a player you loved to hate...unless he was on your team. I respect his ability to hit the ball consistently for so many years. One thing you can say about Pete Rose, is he showed up for work every day. Anyone would be hard challenged to find any tape of him not running at the crack of the bat. Unlike a few of todays primadonnas who take a batters box view of their hits.

If more players had half of his enthusiasm, the quality of play would be alot more intense. Does he deserve a leadership position in baseball? No, I don't think so. A position where he can pass along his experience-absolutely. Does he go to the hall? Hell yes.

Besides, I put in a $500 wager with my bookie saying he is unducted in '05.

12vmanRick wrote:

ragtopW wrote:I have a question I know this is going to peeve some pholks here
but If gambling is said to tarnish the coat of baseball why was
MJ allowed to join a minor team during the uproar over his
uhhhh gambling debts?????

See previous example I set above. How in the name of anything right is it that cocaine addicts are allowed BACK playing baseball after MULTIPLE times of arrest, conviction and yet Pete Rose is barred from everything after only one incident. Oh and I am not necessarily a Rose fan but what I am a fan of is doing someone fairly. He was done WRONG!

Oh Yeah I am agreeing with you as a Die-hard ,bleed black and orange,
cried the day Candlestick closed, Giants fan I have no love
for Charlie Hustle but he was robbed. I mean Orlando Cepda
crossed the border with HOW many pounds of De Splif??
He paid his debt and so has Pete

Key Lime Lee wrote:I dunno, I think any player who whines about $$ is, in some ways, disrespecting the sport of baseball.

The hall is about his contributions as a player, not his faults as a human.

What he did was his own personal business until it became a blatant violation of the rules he agreed to abide by and a public embarrassment to baseball. His performance and statistics were indeed amazing and worthy of recognition, and his apparent gambling problem belonged in the same category as other questionable behavior by HOF players in determining whether he ought to go into the HOF, right up to the point that he violated Rule 21. It is about the most unambiguous rule in the game.

The timing of this admission is also a further embarrassment to baseball and is unabashedly cynical. His contribution to baseball is more than his stats and achievements - and good or bad, it continues in this latest episode, for what it's worth.

If the HOF is solely about stats and on-field achievements, they ought to clear that up and let him in. If it's about overall contribution to baseball, I'd have a tough time respecting that decision though.

ragtopW wrote:I have a question I know this is going to peeve some pholks here
but If gambling is said to tarnish the coat of baseball why was
MJ allowed to join a minor team during the uproar over his
uhhhh gambling debts?????

Good question...

Michael always had his own rules.

HockeyParrotHead wrote:
What he did was his own personal business until it became a blatant violation of the rules he agreed to abide by and a public embarrassment to baseball.

I'd say you'd have to purge the hall then of all the alcoholics, womanizers, tax cheats, drug addicts etc then...

My guess is there wouldn't be many left....

there is only one sign that must be posted in every clubhouse, that every player and coach sees every day....

you cannot gamble

Key Lime Lee wrote:

HockeyParrotHead wrote:
What he did was his own personal business until it became a blatant violation of the rules he agreed to abide by and a public embarrassment to baseball.

I'd say you'd have to purge the hall then of all the alcoholics, womanizers, tax cheats, drug addicts etc then...

My guess is there wouldn't be many left....

True...IF baseball had a rule that clearly stated a lifetime ban was the penalty for engaging in those things.

I'm going to suggest that the notion that baseball is a game that still deserves respect is, at best, an atiquated notion.

Great - they have a sign in the dug out. It's an ancient relic of a time when baseball was still a game, not a business run by and played by greedy millionaires who will engage in bench-clearing brawls over nothing.

It's time for baseball to confront its own ugly reality and realize that it is a mere poseur of a gentleman's game.

Rose's addiction didn't disrespect baseball any more than baseball disrespects its own legacy on a daily basis.

Baseball no longer HAS values and it has nothing to do with Rose. They should drop the sanctimonious self-righteous judgement and fess up to the fact that they like to MARKET the game as something noble rather than actually make it noble.

AlbatrossFlyer wrote:there is only one sign that must be posted in every clubhouse, that every player and coach sees every day....

you cannot gamble

So gambling is the cardinal sin of baseball? If I chose to club an umpire with a bat, THAT'S okay - as long as I don't gamble? If I show up at the ballpark coked up after beating my wife, that's less aggregious than a gambling addiction?

I dunno... seems a little misguided to me.

Key Lime Lee wrote:

HockeyParrotHead wrote:
What he did was his own personal business until it became a blatant violation of the rules he agreed to abide by and a public embarrassment to baseball.

I'd say you'd have to purge the hall then of all the alcoholics, womanizers, tax cheats, drug addicts etc then...

My guess is there wouldn't be many left....

but Lee those are all off the field issues. Being a womanizer and being a profesional baseball player are two seperate things. Being a baseball manager and betting on baseball games while your a manager is very much related.

RAGTOP wrote:

Key Lime Lee wrote:

HockeyParrotHead wrote:
What he did was his own personal business until it became a blatant violation of the rules he agreed to abide by and a public embarrassment to baseball.

I'd say you'd have to purge the hall then of all the alcoholics, womanizers, tax cheats, drug addicts etc then...

My guess is there wouldn't be many left....

but Lee those are all off the field issues. Being a womanizer and being a profesional baseball player are two seperate things. Being a baseball manager and betting on baseball games while your a manager is very much related.

Did he convince his team to throw the game? Did he deliberately pull players out of the game in order to lose? I must have missed the investigation where they showed that his betting had an effect on the outcome of the games.

I'm not saying what he did was right - I just think it's not as bad as baseball would have you believe....