BuffettNews.com

All quite true Lee....it IS a business first - the entertainment business. And like any business, it has its rules - right or wrong, but they are the rules.

I think Rose's behavior over the years, including his last three or so years in the game, was ungodly self-serving and cynical. We readily chastise business people for enhancing themselves the expense of the organization (e.g., see Tyco thread), but when it comes to sports, and Rose in particular, emotions cloud it over and the "achievement" or "contribution" become separated from conduct, and even from talent.

Perhaps the grossness of it all really means the HOF deserves Rose and he deserves it, regardless of what he did or did not do, and regardless of any rules. Sad.

let me ask you this. Do you beleive everything he is telling us now? That he never bet against his own team, that it in no way his gambling effected the Cincinatti Reds. He lied for 14 years so he must be telling us the truth now... right ?

Key Lime Lee wrote:

AlbatrossFlyer wrote:there is only one sign that must be posted in every clubhouse, that every player and coach sees every day....

you cannot gamble

So gambling is the cardinal sin of baseball? If I chose to club an umpire with a bat, THAT'S okay - as long as I don't gamble? If I show up at the ballpark coked up after beating my wife, that's less aggregious than a gambling addiction?

I dunno... seems a little misguided to me.

The rules, although debatable, are still the rules...he broke the rules and thereby compromised the integrity of the game. Baseball takes that very seriously and in their world you committed the mother of all sins..and in that world you are at their mercy. Right or wrong, he knew the result of his actions and chose to place himself above the law. That doesn't work in any society. Should it?

Key Lime Lee wrote:

AlbatrossFlyer wrote:there is only one sign that must be posted in every clubhouse, that every player and coach sees every day....

you cannot gamble

So gambling is the cardinal sin of baseball? If I chose to club an umpire with a bat, THAT'S okay - as long as I don't gamble? If I show up at the ballpark coked up after beating my wife, that's less aggregious than a gambling addiction?

I dunno... seems a little misguided to me.

maybe so, but that's the way it is. baseball's argument is, they are protecting the integrity of the game. ie the win loss result of a game. beating your wife doesn't necessarily effect the outcome of a game.... sure its a thin line, but baseball is legally a game and not a business and the business of baseball is to protect that status at all costs. personally i think any player that tests positive for drugs, steroids, or commits a crime should be banned for life.... and any player that cheats with a corked bat or spitballs or what ever should be suspended for the season.

RAGTOP wrote:let me ask you this. Do you beleive everything he is telling us now? That he never bet against his own team, that it in no way his gambling effected the Cincinatti Reds. He lied for 14 years so he must be telling us the truth now... right ?

Pretty funny....and a good point to ponder given the timing!

BTW, if I recall correctly, I think the report about his betting said he always bet the Reds to win. But then again, I think it covered a pretty short timespan.

RAGTOP wrote:

Key Lime Lee wrote:

HockeyParrotHead wrote:
What he did was his own personal business until it became a blatant violation of the rules he agreed to abide by and a public embarrassment to baseball.

I'd say you'd have to purge the hall then of all the alcoholics, womanizers, tax cheats, drug addicts etc then...

My guess is there wouldn't be many left....

but Lee those are all off the field issues. Being a womanizer and being a profesional baseball player are two seperate things. Being a baseball manager and betting on baseball games while your a manager is very much related.

I respecfully disagree. Baseball has decided the morality of the players and have not done so across the board. Gambling is a personal issue no matter where, when or on who it is done. Pete did not bet on teams that he was playing against or on his own team to throw the game (to our knowledge). Drugs and other abusive things that cause children to think it's ok are equally as bad as gambling. Yet for some reason drugs and wife beating are acceptable in baseball.

BuPHett wrote:

Key Lime Lee wrote:

AlbatrossFlyer wrote:there is only one sign that must be posted in every clubhouse, that every player and coach sees every day....

you cannot gamble

So gambling is the cardinal sin of baseball? If I chose to club an umpire with a bat, THAT'S okay - as long as I don't gamble? If I show up at the ballpark coked up after beating my wife, that's less aggregious than a gambling addiction?

I dunno... seems a little misguided to me.

The rules, although debatable, are still the rules...he broke the rules and thereby compromised the integrity of the game. Baseball takes that very seriously and in their world you committed the mother of all sins..and in that world you are at their mercy. Right or wrong, he knew the result of his actions and chose to place himself above the law. That doesn't work in any society. Should it?

Who knows might want to find OJ while he is looking in those little golf holes for his wifes killer

12vmanRick wrote:

BuPHett wrote:

Key Lime Lee wrote:

AlbatrossFlyer wrote:there is only one sign that must be posted in every clubhouse, that every player and coach sees every day....

you cannot gamble

So gambling is the cardinal sin of baseball? If I chose to club an umpire with a bat, THAT'S okay - as long as I don't gamble? If I show up at the ballpark coked up after beating my wife, that's less aggregious than a gambling addiction?

I dunno... seems a little misguided to me.

The rules, although debatable, are still the rules...he broke the rules and thereby compromised the integrity of the game. Baseball takes that very seriously and in their world you committed the mother of all sins..and in that world you are at their mercy. Right or wrong, he knew the result of his actions and chose to place himself above the law. That doesn't work in any society. Should it?

Who knows might want to find OJ while he is looking in those little golf holes for his wifes killer

Timing is everything...get into the hall BEFORE getting into crime!

There was never any evidence found that Rose bet for his team to lose, he always bet for them to win. You can read more here

www.dowdreport.com

Also I find it ironic that they have his bats, balls, and other memorabilia in the hall but he himself can not be in the hall. If they didn't want him in the hall why have his memorabilia in there?

Rick no one is saying that wife beating and drug abuse is acceptable. MLB has rules in place for those violations as well. I understand that some think that the punishment doesn't fit the crime, but maybe that's something Pete should have thought about beforehand. Of course he is quoted as saying "he didn't think he would get caught"

RAGTOP wrote:Rick no one is saying that wife beating and drug abuse is acceptable. MLB has rules in place for those violations as well. I understand that some think that the punishment doesn't fit the crime, but maybe that's something Pete should have thought about beforehand. Of course he is quoted as saying "he didn't think he would get caught"

I am not saying ANYONE HERE is saying that! Believe me! But Baseball is sending that silent message! and it plain SUX. I have thought that anyone caught with drugs twice should be gone forever. ONE incident (depending on circumstances and rehab ability) should be forgiven and Baseball should make sure that they follow up properly to treat these people including Pete Rose. For that fact someone like Chipper Jones who cheated on his wife should have to go through counseling. Why is it that any superstar in sports and rich person any celebrity has a very slim chance of ever having to face what the rest of us would if we did what they do ? double standards for the rich!

i think it's interesting i keep seeing the words "embarrassment to baseball,tarnished the game,integrity of the game" and similar phrases.
although i dont like the game i watched some of it this year in the playoffs,and what i saw was embarrassing in itself.the bench clearing brawls over nothing,hit batsmen and other things.not to mention all the things i read about on a regular basis.people neeed to take baseball down off its pedestal and realise it is only a game and most people involved with it are not of the highest moral standards to begin with.

I don't think baseball is on a pedastal at all, it is very tarnished for a number of reasons, doesn't mean that we should compound the problem with more blemishes like Pete Rose

Every spring for the 11 years I ran baseball clubs I received a package of seven 24" x 36" posters from the commissioners office. Two were to hang "Prominantly" in the players clubhouse. One in each managers office and one in the Umpires locker room. It was the entire text of the league gambling rule. Not only that, it was required to be read to the team at our first meeting and translated into spanish as well.

I have been in Wrigley Field, Atlanta Fulton County Stadium and Memorial Stadium in Baltimore. That same poster was in those locker rooms. That rule has been in effect since 1920 and I guarantee you Pete Rose has seen it in every locker room he has ever been in since Batavia in the New York Penn League

"Warning....Gambling On Baseball Is Punishable by Lifetime Ban from the Game"

What irks me the most is Pete's insistance that his crime was "Not owning up to this earlier" Wrong, the crime was betting on baseball. And yes, after the Black Sox scandel it IS the cardinal rule of the game. Not only that there has been no apologies, no remorse and no contrition. Just arrogance. It reminds me of when my kids are upset about being caught, not about their "crime"

There is no way on earth that Rose did not know the rule and the consequences and yes this is different than the other wrongs so many of you have listed. That does not make any of them less harmful to baseball, but this is different.

As I said before, I do not care if he goes into the Hall of Fame for his on field success. But there is no way he should ever be allowed to manage a team again.

well,stupid sign or not i dont agree.and i'd even say pete rose is a far better representative of the game and what players should strive for than most people playing today.on field success is what it's all about.and the fact that he bet on his team to win is great.i'd bet on myself everytime.
but then again,i play hockey so what do i know

tommcat327 wrote:well,stupid sign or not i dont agree.and i'd even say pete rose is a far better representative of the game and what players should strive for than most people playing today.on field success is what it's all about.and the fact that he bet on his team to win is great.i'd bet on myself everytime.
but then again,i play hockey so what do i know

Here, here.. dont be dissing hockey cuz the Thrashers are on the way to whipping your butts!!

12vmanRick wrote:

tommcat327 wrote:well,stupid sign or not i dont agree.and i'd even say pete rose is a far better representative of the game and what players should strive for than most people playing today.on field success is what it's all about.and the fact that he bet on his team to win is great.i'd bet on myself everytime.
but then again,i play hockey so what do i know

Here, here.. dont be dissing hockey cuz the Thrashers are on the way to whipping your butts!!

you're all excited about beating the bruins?? i think you should set your sights a little bit higher

on field success is only 1 of the criteria for the Hall... another criteria for the voters is integrity. Every single sport is tarnished in one way or another and baseball has it's fair share of "less than desirable characters"... doesn't mean they should be excused for their actions. The argument that Bonds does this and Sosa did that doesn't fly, this is about Pete Rose and Pete Rose only. In the future if we find out that Bonds uses steroids (I beleive he does) than in my opinion he should also be left out of the Hall of fame etc...

while I do agree with alot that is written here...and I honestly don't know what my true feelings on Rose are...whether or not he shouold be allowed "back into baseball"...one thing that strikes me about this whole mess...in addition to some of the points Lee brought up which are very valid...it disgusts me to see what "athletes" get away with. It is astounding that because you have athletic talent you are held to lower standards of behavior than most of us....and forgiven for your mistakes very quickly.
Although I realize Rose broke the rules of baseball...his crime does not seem so overwhelming in the sceme of things. As Lee mentioned, taking drugs, beating your wife and cheating are much more serious offenses that seem to get swept under the rug.
In comparrison...Rose bet on baseball and was banned from the sport for life........yet our wonderful former presedent of our country had sex with an intern, lied about it repeatedly under oath....yet he still has a very lucrative, political career???

kitty wrote:yet our wonderful former presedent of our country had sex with an intern, lied about it repeatedly under oath....yet he still has a very lucrative, political career???

Hey, he only got a blow job.

Trust me, from a guy's point of view it's an important distinction.

Now George Washington or JFK - those guys had sex with other women while president...

What was the topic again?