The President Opinions?

StoriesICouldTell · Post by **StoriesICouldTell** » May 27, 2004 3:55 pm

Just curious as to the opinion of our current president. I think he is a liar who is clearly only interested in serving those who are wealthy and support his campaign. To me, the biggest things to look at in a presidential candidate are the economy, health/education, and foreign relations. Our president has showed that he has failed miserably in all of those areas.

sirgumby77 · Post by **sirgumby77** » May 27, 2004 4:20 pm

I vote for NEITHER OF THEM.

Coconuts · Post by **Coconuts** » May 27, 2004 4:29 pm

If only that was a realistic option.

ph4ever · Post by **ph4ever** » May 27, 2004 5:08 pm

I think that if we're gonna have a poll it should list all candidates. Aren't there other parties out there other than Republicans & Democrats??

Cause I know if there's only those 2 to vote for I'm stuck.....

longlinergirl · Post by **longlinergirl** » May 27, 2004 11:00 pm

DAMN...how come I lose every poll???? I do not plan on arguing politics in here.....but I did cast my vote

sailingagain · Post by **sailingagain** » May 27, 2004 11:27 pm

I hate the job Bush is doing, but Kerry flip-flops so much it scares me. Bush may choose the wrong answers, but at least he sticks to them.

I wish I had better options.

phwtb · Post by **phwtb** » May 28, 2004 2:45 am

How about this for a test of candidates?

You're cruising down the highway in your two-seater sports car, and come up on a bus wreck. 3 people were on the bus. Your very best friend; an older woman that has been hurt and needs medical attention; and the love of your life, that one person you have been searching for. What would you do?

CUparrot · Post by **CUparrot** » May 28, 2004 9:38 am

phwtb wrote:How about this for a test of candidates?

You're cruising down the highway in your two-seater sports car, and come up on a bus wreck. 3 people were on the bus. Your very best friend; an older woman that has been hurt and needs medical attention; and the love of your life, that one person you have been searching for. What would you do?

I'd give my best friend the keys to my car and tell him to take the older, injured woman to the hospital. Then, I'd spend the rest of the day with the love of my life.

rednekkPH · Post by **rednekkPH** » May 28, 2004 9:44 am

phwtb wrote:You're cruising down the highway in your two-seater sports car, and come up on a bus wreck. 3 people were on the bus. Your very best friend; an older woman that has been hurt and needs medical attention; and the love of your life, that one person you have been searching for. What would you do?

Run the 3 of them over and take their wallets.

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » May 28, 2004 9:56 am

sailingagain wrote:I hate the job Bush is doing, but Kerry flip-flops so much it scares me. Bush may choose the wrong answers, but at least he sticks to them.

John, John, John....

Kerry doesn't really flip-flop.... that's just what the GOP wants you to believe. Go and read the transcript of his statement on the floor the day of the vote on giving the president the authority to go to war in Iraq IF NECESSARY and then compare it with his other statements. His posiition is no different.

The vote on giving the President authority was NOT an up and down vote on the validity of the war or whether we SHOULD go to war... it simply gave the president the OPTION. In his speech, Kerry said he would give the president the option because he believed it was the right thing to do, but that if the president were to exercise the option, he should do so only as a last resort and only if an immenant threat was present. This isn't inconsitent with his vote later against the 87 billion in additional funding.

Maybe there are a couple of positions that he's changed his mind on in over 20 years of public service (although I haven't come across anything blatent yet) - and if so, that doesn't bother me. My position on certain issues has evolved over the years as I've grown... it's a sign of an active intellect, not a stagnant one.

And people can't base their notion on whether someone is for or against a certain position simply on their vote - they need to read their speech before the vote to understand WHY they voted a particular way. I mean, if there's a bill that will give free medicine to sick kids, but attached to it is an amendment that declares homosexuals to be criminals, is my voting against it mean I'm opposed to sick kids getting medicine? Of course not.

If you want to see flip-flopping, examine Bush's public statements on everything from the importance of capturing Bin Laden, the creation of the 9/11 commission, campain finance reform, free trade, gay marriage as a states issue vs a federal issue, nation building, patient bill of rights etc.

Worse, to my mind, is that his changing of his position is not based on the evolution of his understanding of the issue, it's based on his polling data and what he thinks WE want to hear. In short, Bush will believe whatever you want him to if it's to his advantage.

The fact is that not every issue before this country is a simply one - and sadly it seems that many of the voters in this country lack the intellectual capacity or the attention span to grasp anything more than "for" or "against".

Bush is great at giving six word answers that the average Jerry Springer fan can understand... and he's great at making them forget that he believed the opposite six months ago.

Sadly as long as a percentage of the American public continues to let the GOP dictate their opinions to them via campaign ads rather than taking the time to discover the truth, he's going to get away with it.

StoriesICouldTell · Post by **StoriesICouldTell** » May 28, 2004 10:29 am

Very well put Key Lime Lee. I am pretty tired of people not reading about the issues and just reiterating what is said in lousy campaign ads. The true flip flopper is indeed Dubya. How abou the wonderful No Child Left Behind Act? I can't wait to see the idiot teachers they roll out in support of that at the convention. Too bad it is ruining public education and is severaly underfunded. Not a surprise though.

RAGTOP · Post by **RAGTOP** » May 28, 2004 10:34 am

Sure the GOP wants you to believe that Kerry flip flops on issues just like the LA Times and the New York Times insist on the continuing to put the prisoner abuse scandal on page 1 when no more new information is being reported (anyone sick of hearing about this yet). Everyone is familiar with the political stance of both these papers and they are just trying to drive the point home. Welcome to the wonderful world of politics, doesn't it make you want to run out and vote

.

longlinergirl · Post by **longlinergirl** » May 28, 2004 10:42 am

This is a useless discussion. Whatever side you are on your views are spun to favor that side. Unless you sit and watch every bill on CSPAN then you don't know why the bill was passed/not passed and every issuse on said bill. And if you sit and watch all of this on CSPAN then you have no idea what is really going on as you don't ever leave your house

No matter whay side you are on you are dictated to and yes, some people will believe what they hear on ads, but I think most people do have the brains to decide for themselves, although most people do not have the time to know everything about every issue. To say that GOPers are dictated to is assine...both sides are...try not to spin it ok

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » May 28, 2004 10:51 am

RAGTOP wrote:Sure the GOP wants you to believe that Kerry flip flops on issues just like the LA Times and the New York Times insist on the continuing to put the prisoner abuse scandal on page 1 when no more new information is being reported (anyone sick of hearing about this yet).

Sick of hearing about it?

Well, it makes me sick. But until they finish their investigation and get to the truth of the matter, I hope it remains on the public conscience. It's an embarassment to our nation and a blow against our credibility. I want to know who is responsible. Frankly I doubt it was just a few soldiers acting on their own since it was the family of one of those soldiers who first revealed the abuse to the public in fear of being scapegoated by the government. A government, by the way, that only admitted the abuses had happened after it came out that there were numerous internal and external reports of the abuse.

And the LATimes last ran an article on the front page Monday - relating to developments in the investigation.

This week alone the Guard commander in charge came out and made public statements about the abuse, Sanchez was replaced and his family expressed concern publically that he would be somehow implicated in all of this, the US continues to release prisoners from prison (under military escort), soldiers from other nations are now being implicated in the abuse, and the investigation is now looking at allegations of similar abuse at other prisons in Iraq.

Hardly a non-newsworthy week.

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » May 28, 2004 11:01 am

longlinergirl wrote:This is a useless discussion. Whatever side you are on your views are spun to favor that side. Unless you sit and watch every bill on CSPAN then you don't know why the bill was passed/not passed and every issuse on said bill.

The House and Senate websites keep a searchable database of transcripts of all proceedings for those willing to take the time to educate themselves.

And I honestly don't believe that most people are smart enough to not be dictated to, if only because of the number of people who claim Kerry flip flops when the facts fail to support this point of view. Clearly they didn't research this and come to their own conclusion, which means they had to get their opinion somewhere. And the only place selling the notion of Kerry as a flip-flopper is the GOP.

Say you don't like Kerry's ideology and there's no debate. I know folks who are anti-abortion and as such would never vote for anyone with that stance - there's no argument there. But the fact that people even use the terms outlined in the campaign ads indicates that people are just too lazy to think for themselves.

Same goes for many democrats who do nothing other than try to paint Bush as a simpleton.

And for the record, I'm not on either "side". I'd interested in the truth, if only because without the truth how are we really supposed to choose our president?

iuparrothead · Post by **iuparrothead** » May 28, 2004 11:04 am

sailingagain wrote:I hate the job Bush is doing, but Kerry flip-flops so much it scares me. Bush may choose the wrong answers, but at least he sticks to them.

I wish I had better options.

Yep. I kinda agree with this. I still remember the days following 9/11 and being thankful that a hardass from Texas was leading us and not Bill Clinton. I can't imagine the waffling Kerry would do for his constituencies if faced with the same kind of situation.

kurt · Post by **kurt** » May 28, 2004 11:05 am

Though I'm not going to get into this discussion (which, of course is a lie because I'm already in this thread), I don't like it b/c it pits PH vs. PH in a heated way unlike the comparisons of Buffett and Chesney (which I find humorous)

... I'm treating this Forum as I would a concert... I won't discuss politics.

I like all you PH's no matter which side of the fence you are on!

longlinergirl · Post by **longlinergirl** » May 28, 2004 11:11 am

And you read every one of those transcripts? Who says they didn't research this and come to thier own conclusion? Maybe they just don't agree with what you say and are considered followers? You say you are not on either side, but I am finding this hard to believe from your posts. I agree and disagree with both sides on different things. And as far as presidential elections are concerned, if you are waiting for the truth from either side, then you will be waiting for a looooooooong time, and good luck with that.

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » May 28, 2004 11:12 am

iuparrothead wrote:Yep. I kinda agree with this. I still remember the days following 9/11 and being thankful that a hardass from Texas was leading us and not Bill Clinton. I can't imagine the waffling Kerry would do for his constituencies if faced with the same kind of situation.

My only concern with that line of reasoning is the implication that what Bush did post 9/11 was meaningful in any way on reducing the threat of terror attacks.

Sure, he dropped bombs. But the announcements this week by Ashcroft seem to indicate that we're as much at risk today for attacks as we ever were, which begs the question "If we're as much at risk today, then how has Bush made us safer?"

Key Lime Lee · Post by **Key Lime Lee** » May 28, 2004 11:16 am

longlinergirl wrote:And you read every one of those transcripts? Who says they didn't research this and come to thier own conclusion?

I read the ones cited in the GOP ads as being indications of Kerry's flip-flopping and, honestly, unless someone has only a third-grade intellect there's no possible way to interpret those statements in the way the GOP wants you to.

longlinergirl wrote:You say you are not on either side, but I am finding this hard to believe from your posts. I agree and disagree with both sides on different things.

As do I, but right now the issue is Kerry flip-flopping as portrayed by the GOP. As such, my responses relate to that.

longlinergirl wrote:You say you are not on either side, but I am finding this hard to believe from your posts. I agree and disagree with both sides on different things. And as far as presidential elections are concerned, if you are waiting for the truth from either side, then you will be waiting for a looooooooong time, and good luck with that.

Ah see - there's the difference. I'm not waiting for the truth. I'm researching it on my own.

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The President Opinions?

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The President Opinions?