Does anybody else IGNORE the pirate warning...

[SchoolGirlHeart]

Magnum RULES!!!!! Can't wait til Sept. for the First Season DVDs!!

Don't get her started!

I preordered the DVD weeks ago.....

[longlinergirl]

Magnum is H-O-T HOT!!!!! Man that moustache (melting)

[Buffett4ever]

I never knew that was possible. Your ISP should have that info. I know you can mask you mac address but your IP... I am searching now.

You can still use Kazaa easily if you want. Just simply find a program that masks your IP address. It makes it untrackable. I dont advocate it. I'm not going to say its stealing, its just a gray area I dont want to venture in anymore. In college, I was all about Napster and Kazaa, you had to be. Theres no other way a college kid could get music on that budget...haha. Now I just buy the Cd's or get what I want off of iTunes.


Does anyone know if its illegal to download bootleg stuff off of Kazaa? Or things that aren't released on CD? (radio promos, tv specials like VH1 storytellers, etc.)

[PA PAR8 HED]

On a similar vein...

If I download a mix of songs off of itunes, or rhapsody etc. and pay for each one, can I turn around and sell that custom mix to someone else? And can I sell it at a profit?

Seems to me I could.

Not by any stretch of the imagination.

You're purchasing a single-copy of each song for personal use, not licensing the songs for distrubution. It makes no difference if it's one song or 100 by different artists - you can't distribute (or re-distribute) the copyrighted material without the permission of the copyright holder.

OK, that makes sense.

Why then is the resale to a used record/cd store, and then their resale allowable? Isn't that sort of the same thing? or do they have to have a license to resell that comes with that permission?

[Key Lime Lee]

Why then is the resale to a used record/cd store, and then their resale allowable? Isn't that sort of the same thing? or do they have to have a license to resell that comes with that permission?

They're simply reselling YOUR single copy.

I can buy a CD and then sell you my copy of it legally. I'm not allowed to make copies and sell them to you, but I have the right to sell or resell my single copy (with the assumption that I will destroy any additional copies I may have made).

It's the same way I can sell you my Ford car without running into trademark or patent issues, but if I make copies of my Ford car and sell them, I'm in violation.

[Boomerang Ross]

Magnum RULES!!!!! Can't wait til Sept. for the First Season DVDs!!

Don't get her started!

I preordered the DVD weeks ago.....

Wow!!!!! I had no idea a DVD was coming out. Thanks so much. I love Magnum PI. My favorite show of all time.

[Pirate of the Caribbean]

Arrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!! Ye should never ignore a pirate warnin' matey

[Brown Eyed Girl]

First it was records, now everyones burning CDs.

OMG, another Magnum PI fan!

Oh man, and all this time I thought we were supposed to be burning our bras!

[Havaña Dreamer]

Brown Eyed Girl, Is that your beaver I see?

[lavamenow (orlavamenot)]

AAAAAAAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHH Maties, and shiver me timbers!!!!
Warning!!! Pirates off the stern!!!!

Now, Auntie, you have a double problem. You're gonna get busted by the Feds for supporting piracy AND fined by the FCC for invoking the name Stern. Hope you have your million bucks ready.....

[parrotmedic]

AAAAAAAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHH Maties, and shiver me timbers!!!!
Warning!!! Pirates off the stern!!!!

Since when has it bothered you to have pirates off your stern

[RMM]

So, after all this discussion, where does downloading the concerts fall? We are all trading concerts on this site. I am careful to not make any money on CD's of concerts I have recorded, simply asking for reimbursement of expenses. I also won't offer for sale, trade or downloading any copyright material.

I am offering to upload to a ftp site recordings of concerts, basically to save me the effort of burning CD's and mailing them to people. Is that wrong? Is it illegal? Is there anywhere we can find out how Jimmy really feels about what we are doing?

Finally, I have heard that Jimmy is going to release one or both of the Indianapolis concerts commercially later this year. How does that affect our RM recordings of it? Can I offer them for downloading? Is there a lawyer around here? Sounds like we need one.

RMM

[Key Lime Lee]

You don't need a lawyer because it's not that complicated:

The broadcast off of RadioMargaritaville is copyrighted. Therefore trading is technically illegal.

Copyright law doesn't care if you make money off of it or not - what matters is that you're distributing copyrighted material. Whether you make money at it or not doesn't change that fact.

FTPing the concerts to a server and making them available would also be infringement - you don't have permission from the copyright holder to do that.

And Jimmy releasing a concert doesn't change the status of the RM broadcast... it's not okay to trade if it's not released - the broadcast is copyrighted either way.

My sense is that Jimmy tolerates trading even though it is technically illegal, so you probably don't have much to worry about. I suspect the quality of most recordings is low enough that they're not concerned. But just know that you're infringing.

[RMM]

Thank you for clarifying things for me. You have answered all of my questions.

[Lastplaneout]

I really don't worry about it. All these subpoenas, investigations and other BS are being focused towards people with thousands of files. I have about 900 MP3 files on my comp. In my shared folder?...not a chance! I keep a few recent songs that many people look for, ya know so I at least share something. Now i'll admit, if someone comes over to the house and some music is on and they say "Will you burn me a CD" I let them look over my TOTALLY DIVERSE collection, pick out what they want and ill burn it for them. I don't sell my music or video CD's, I just give people some songs they want to hear. Now that I have given my .02 I will let y'all bicker more about this issue, 'cause it doesn't matter who you talk to about music sharing, there will always be the 2 sides All I know is that I feel no guilt in my mind.

[RMM]

The thing I find interesting is that Jimmy has a link for BuffettNews.Com on the Radio Margaritaville website. Does that imply that he approves or at least doesn't disapprove of us trading concerts? Has he ever contacted the site or the webmasters over any of this? Just wondering.

I have heard that if you don't take steps to protect a copyright, you lose it. An example of this is the "Cat In The Hat" hat that people were producing "unofficially". I heard that Geisel's widow was advised that she needed to have her attorneys issue a "cease and desist" order over it to protect her rights on all Dr. Seusss products, which she did. If Jimmy doesn't do that over RM copyrights, does he give up that right? I'm not an attorney, which is why I am asking.

[Key Lime Lee]

You're confusing "copyright" with "trademark".

You don't need to enforce copyrights - a copyrighted work is a copyrighted work from the moment it is created until that copyright expires (I believe it's currently life plus 20). Technically it doesn't even need to be filed with the Library of Congress - trademark protection is instantaneous. But filing with the LoC gives you more option to enforce protection.

A trademark, on the other hand, must be vigorously defended. If it is not, it opens the door for folks to claim that the trademark is invalid, since whatever the mark may be is in the public domain.

The difference is as follows:

"Margaritaville" the words and music is copyrighted, meaning I can't write a song similar or publish the words without permission. That would be infringing. I can, however, write another song called "Margaritaville" because you can't copywrite a word - only a complete work.

I *CAN* also record a new version of the song without seeking Jimmy's permission (since it has been commercially released) but I must pay either the Harry Fox Agency or the publisher the standard mechanical royalty rate and Jimmy would get all the royalties from the song and maintain the copyright.

"Margaritaville" the sound recording (the original recording) is copyrighted as well seperately from the words and music. As such, I can't record, distribute or sell copies of that sound recording without being in violation.

"Margaritaville" the word is Trademarked for the food service industry (amongst other industries), meaning that while I can write a song called "Margaritaville" I cannot open a restaurant called "Margaritaville" since that term is trademarked.

My sense in talking with folks in the Buffett organization is that trading is tolerated as long as folks are reasonable (no one has told me that - it's just the sense I get). They probably figure that the recording quality off of RM is so low that no one will distribute too many anyway. But again, under copyright law they are under no obligation to enforce it unless they want, in contrast to trademark law where they have to enforce in every instance.

Most likely the Geisel issue was about enforcing the Cat In The Hat trademark, not copyright.

[RMM]

Thanks again for clearing that up. I just we could get a definitive answer on recording and sharing concerts. I don't want any "surprises".

For instance, what is "reasonable"? Trading? Selling to other members, but not making a profit? How many copies are acceptable? What about putting them on a server for downloading? Does that go "over the line"? I want to share, but don't want to upset Jimmy or his lawyers. Can they ignore what we are doing and then just show up and file a lawsuit, or do they have to issue a "cease and desist" warning first that, if we ignore it, can then be acted upon by them?

[Sidew13]

OK Lee, now I am REALY starting to think that you are a LAWYER

[Key Lime Lee]

Thanks again for clearing that up. I just we could get a definitive answer on recording and sharing concerts. I don't want any "surprises".

For instance, what is "reasonable"? Trading? Selling to other members, but not making a profit? How many copies are acceptable? What about putting them on a server for downloading? Does that go "over the line"? I want to share, but don't want to upset Jimmy or his lawyers. Can they ignore what we are doing and then just show up and file a lawsuit, or do they have to issue a "cease and desist" warning first that, if we ignore it, can then be acted upon by them?

If you're that worried just don't do it - a lawyer would tell you that it's all copyright infringement and as such you're opening yourself up to penalties for infringing.

They certainly don't need to send you a cease and desist - they could just take you to court. You've already committed the crime.

Personally I think if you stick within the ethical guidelines traditionally set up by the taping and trading community (truly trading or trading for blank media) then most likely you'll remain low enough on the radar for no one to even notice. Traders have always had their own sense about where that line is, and it's part of why certain bands allow it. But I suspect if you start serving them off a server for anyone to grab, or start selling them for a price (even if that's just cost) that will garner some attention that you probably don't want.

But I don't work for Jimmy... if you're looking for the line it's actually at recording and distributing the concert in the first place, so you're not going to get any more definition than that.

You're essentially asking "well, how far over the speed limit do I have to be going before the officer will pull me over." The real answer is that he can pull you over as soon as you exceed it, whether it's by 1MPH or 10MPH. There's no gray area.

If you're not willing to pay a fine or court costs, I wouldn't trade.