Old Timers

[Cubbie Bear]

Once again the Baseball Hall of Fame "Veterans Committee" has done a major disservice to the game of baseball by not voting in any of the eligible "old timers" into the Hall of Fame.

Specifically, I refer to Tony Oliva, Jim Kaat, Mickey Lolich, and most importantly (to me) Ron Santo. As a lifetime (duh) Cub fan, I probably had the pleasure of watching 200 or more of Santo's games in person. I have 46 ticket stubs from 1969 alone. He meant every bit as much or more to the Chicago Cubs in the 1960's and 70's as did Banks, Williams and Jenkins. Santo was the heart and soul of clubs that came close and teased us often, but never quite reached the pinnacle.

I have heard it said that no team that never went to the World Series deserves 4 Hall of Fame members. Since when is the voting a team vote, it is about individual statistics. In a career unfortunately shortened because of the effects of juvenile diabetis, Santo put up some incredible numbers 9 All Star games in 11 seasons, 5 Gold Gloves to name a few.

Having worked in Professional baseball for 11 years, I once had the pleasure of spending an entire evening with Brooks Robinson, arguably the "best 3rd baseman ever". Brooks told me "Santo was every bit as good as me, maybe better" He also confided, "Probably ten of my Gold Gloves were because of plays I made in the Sries on TV and had nothing to do with the years I won them"

Ron Santo was the dominant thirds baseman of his era in the national League, he was overshadowed by Brooks and now is paying the price. Compare his statistics to those third baseman already there and I think you'll agree this was a terrible injustice. Btw, Bill James the statistics guru of MLB places him as the 6th best of all time. Is it really watering down the quality of the Hall of Fame by having the 6th best from the last 120 years?

Here is a look at the third basemen in the Hall of Fame. Ron Santo, who fell short Wednesday, batted .277 with a .362 on-base percentage, .464 slugging percentage, 342 home runs, 1,331 RBI, 1,138 runs and 35 stolen bases.



Name AVG OBP SLG HR RBI RUNS SB
Frank Baker .307 .363 .442 96 987 887 235
George Brett .305 .369 .487 317 1,595 1,583 201
Jimmy Collins .294 .344 .409 65 983 1,055 194
George Kell .306 .368 .414 78 870 881 51
Freddie Lindstrom .311 .351 .449 103 779 895 84
Eddie Mathews .271 .376 .509 512 1,453 1,509 68
Brooks Robinson .267 .322 .401 268 1,357 1,232 28
Mike Schmidt .267 .380 .527 548 1,595 1,506 174
Pie Traynor .320 .362 .435 58 1,273 1,183 158
Sources: The Baseball Encyclopedia

[RinglingRingling]

The fact that Tony O didn't make it either has me thinking that the Hall needs a revamp on their entry reqs.

[FFishstick]

I agree. I spent every summer in Chicago while growing up. My grandfather, a hall of fame all american in basketball, player and coach, was great friends with the late great Dick Enright. During our 6 week visit to Chicago each Summer, my grandfather would take us to every Cubbies home game, where we would sit up in the press box eating dogs and peanuts. I still have a signed team photo of Santo and the gang from the early 70's. Some of my greatest childhood memories are sitting next to my grandfather eating peanuts and cheering on the Cubs. Santo belongs in the Hall of Fame.

[PHBeerman]

I hate the fat a$$'s that have a vote for the HOF. These worthless bastards think way too highly of themselves.

[LIPH]

Once again the Baseball Hall of Fame "Veterins Committee" has done a major disservice to the game of baseball by not voting in any of the eligible "old timers" into the Hall of Fame.

Specifically, I refer to Tony Oliva, Whitey Ford and most importantly (to me) Ron Santo.

Whitey Ford was elected to the Hall in 1974. As an aside, my father has 3 younger brothers, the 2 youngest are twins. The twins were high school teammates of Whitey's.

[Cubbie Bear]

OOPs. Rant error. I was thinking Kaat, Lolich, don't know why I had Whitey on the brain, other than I need a drink

[weirdo0521]

The baseball purists that I know always mention Santo's average as the big knock

[Cubbie Bear]

The baseball purists that I know always mention Santo's average as the big knock

If you compare to the current state of baseball, true. But compare it to the era when pitching was dominant. The talent wasn't watered down and .300 was a feat, not expected. Think of the pitchers back then, every team expcept the Padres and Expo's were three or four deep with talent that would dominate today. Day in and day out they were facing Kolfax, Drysdale, Marichell, Seaver, Ryan Robin Roberts, Spahn, Niekro and on and on and on. Not too many Steve Traxel's in the mix