Lawmakers Widen Schiavo Right-To-Die Fight

[ragtopW]

I don't want the government in my bedroom

I don't know, Hillary's pretty hot.

that is what is being said in some of the bars around the country
the ones that cater to women only

[DonnaKayDunbar]

Saturday marked the 2 year anniversary for the war in Iraq.

I'm just gald that the Congress and the Senate knows what is important.
The president is ending one of his many vacations to return to DC to play politics. Hopefully our Gov't will continue to slash away at our personal freedoms, and also stop those Damn Major league Baseball players from taking steriods.

We lost a service man in Iraq yesterday. Where is the outrage from our elected officials over his death?

THANK YOU

I couldn't have said it better if I'd stolen your thoughts.

[ph4ever]

Brad/Boco/Hal IMHO that's disgusting

[Sam]

The issue for some of us is not that she has the "Right to Die"..( BTW can anyone tell me what article and where it is located in Our Constitutionand Bill of Rights?

I am not against living wills. I am questiong the husbands motives and his sudden recall of a one time conversation.

I am questioning the humaness of death by starvation and dehydration.

We went to combat and Americans died and were drug through the streets of Somalia because people were being starved.

We are now placing food and watering stations at tax payer expense in places in the desert so illegal aliens won't die by such means and can cross without fear of dheydrattion or starving.

Yet so many people want to see her dead by this terrible means to die.
If it is so humane why don't we execute prisoners on death row in such a manner.

Why are the courts involved and legislatures involved? Good questions.The Legislatures make the law and the courts test them I guess.
Ask LIPH or someone else who has better knowledge of the law.

I know that most parents that do love and care for their children, will do anything to save their lives.... The parents have their hope of their daughters recovery....perhaps quite wrong in some people's view.... but that is their Right as parents...just as one places judgement on them by thinking of what they would want done IF they were ever subjected to such circumstances.

People have been misdiagnosed and people have come out of "long term comas". One may or may not believe in God, but one cannot deny miracles do happen. Killing Terri by such means, simply because she is incapable of feeding and watering herself..... and taking 14 days to die ammounts to "Cruel and unsual and inhumane punishment". What if someone took the food and water away from those that support the removal of the items from her? How do you know she is not inside? Her husband has pretty much fought everything for her in the last few years.
Denied visitations and what not.

She broke no laws....yet people want her to die a terrible death....no matter what drugs or endorphins there are.


How much does he stand to make for selling his/her story and movie rights? The money offered to keep her alive seems like a mere pittance and I would lay odds he knows it.

While many, may or may not, know of Jessica Lunsford and what happened to her.....The ACLU, Amnesty International, etc.... would not allow this to happen to the pedophile ( such a nice name for such a monster and vile creature) after what he did to her, her family and friends, and the people and officers involved in the case.

ACLU has fought peophiles being held beyond their sentences and forcing the release of them back into "free society"...how many more children and families must suffer... yet why can't we starve them to death and dehydration? Why do we go into combat to feed hungry nations ? and why are we making sure that people that intentionally break the law have access to water and food so they can cross the desert and enter the U.S. illegally? Yet so many want to kill/murder an innocent woman by starvaion and dehydration, that broke no laws.....?

[olemissbrad]

So much for the theory of federalism!

It just goes to show that all politicians are hypocrites.

[ph4ever]

Sam just to answer your question wouldn't that be the Constitution's 14th amendment?

Developmentally Disabled Assistance and Bill of Rights Act of 1975, Pub. L. No. 94-103, 89 Stat. 486, as amended, 42 U.S.C. Sec. Sec. 6000 et seq., as to which see Pennhurst State School & Hosp. v. Halderman, 451 U.S. 1 (1981); Mental Health Systems Act, 94 Stat. 1565, 42 U.S.C. Sec. 9401 et seq.

[olemissbrad]

Here's a boxtop for that law degree!!

[ph4ever]

Here's a boxtop for that law degree!!

it's called the ability to google effectively

[rednekkPH]

it's called the ability to google effectively

Don't try to out-google Connie...she whupped all our a$$es in CRC's Christmas Trivia contest last year

[ejr]

If the husband wanted to profit from this through books or a made for tv movie, he could do so now-the story is a compelling one, and he could even write a diary of this. I just don't buy that as a reason for wanting this to end.

But the idea of Congress getting involved is so repulsive to me-this is not a matter for Congress at all.

For many of us, Sam, it is a matter of who, legally is entitled to call the shots, and the law says that is the husband. If he favored keeping her alive and her parents felt that this should be ended, while I would disagree with the husband, I would absolutely defend his right. No, we don't know about the husband's motives; nor do we know about her relationship with her parents, and whether there are any hidden motives there.

Sam, I completely understand your concerns, but I ask you to look at this objectively, from a distance. Barring anything in writing expressing her wishes, the husband has the authority, by nature of the marriage, to make the decision.

We are arguing two things here-who has the right to make the decision, and whether the decision is a good one.

[ph4ever]

it's called the ability to google effectively

Don't try to out-google Connie...she whupped all our a$$es in CRC's Christmas Trivia contest last year

[Lightning Bolt]

The issue for some of us is not that she has the "Right to Die"..( BTW can anyone tell me what article and where it is located in Our Constitutionand Bill of Rights?

It's not actually referred to as "Right to Die", insomuch as it is considered under our "Right to Privacy", and is located in the 14th Amendment. This is also where judgement was based upon in the decision of Roe v. Wade.

We are now placing food and watering stations at tax payer expense in places in the desert so illegal aliens won't die by such means and can cross without fear of dheydrattion or starving.

.

That is not a correct statement. I know this because it's a much-discussed issue here in San Diego. The water stations that exist in our local desert have been placed by privately-funded groups sponsored, most often, by pro-immigration interests. The son of MY congressman, Duncan Hunter-R, is a lead figure in these efforts. This is an ironic twist, given that his father has been one the biggest proponents of Operation Gatekeeper, which works very hard to curb illegal immigration. This is not tax-payer funded, and I guarantee you, Californians wouldn't vote FOR them.

People have been misdiagnosed and people have come out of "long term comas".

You're right there, but..... Terry Schiavo IS NOT in a coma.
She has brain damage, and is in a continuous vegetative state. A good many doctors agree that the poor woman has no brain activity, no cerebral cortex, and there are no cases to refer back to that give any evidence for hope, short of blind faith, that is.

While many, may or may not, know of Jessica Lunsford and what happened to her.....The ACLU, Amnesty International, etc.... would not allow this to happen to the pedophile ( such a nice name for such a monster and vile creature) after what he did to her, her family and friends, and the people and officers involved in the case.

I don't disagree with you there. That sick pig will get his....
but these two cases simply do not compare. It's apples vs. oranges

Yet so many want to kill/murder an innocent woman by starvaion and dehydration, that broke no laws.....?

The fact is, without modern medicine, she would have been dead 15 years ago, as nature would have dictated, or maybe you might say, "as by God's will"?

[Sam]

ejr,
Something happened while I was posting and would not let me post ... anyway I will learn to save my comments before posting again....

Some places allow the husband to beat his wife with a stick that is no bigger than his thumb.....

It is clearly on the law books and for the husband to decide to do so....does that make it Right?

[Sam]

Sam just to answer your question wouldn't that be the Constitution's 14th amendment?

Developmentally Disabled Assistance and Bill of Rights Act of 1975, Pub. L. No. 94-103, 89 Stat. 486, as amended, 42 U.S.C. Sec. Sec. 6000 et seq., as to which see Pennhurst State School & Hosp. v. Halderman, 451 U.S. 1 (1981); Mental Health Systems Act, 94 Stat. 1565, 42 U.S.C. Sec. 9401 et seq.

Ammendment 14
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am14
*************************************************************
Amendment XIV - Citizenship rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

[ph4ever]

Sam just to answer your question wouldn't that be the Constitution's 14th amendment?

Developmentally Disabled Assistance and Bill of Rights Act of 1975, Pub. L. No. 94-103, 89 Stat. 486, as amended, 42 U.S.C. Sec. Sec. 6000 et seq., as to which see Pennhurst State School & Hosp. v. Halderman, 451 U.S. 1 (1981); Mental Health Systems Act, 94 Stat. 1565, 42 U.S.C. Sec. 9401 et seq.

Ammendment 14
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am14
*************************************************************
Amendment XIV - Citizenship rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

you need to google further to find out the annotations

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/cons ... endment14/

[rednekkPH]

Ammendment 14
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am14
*************************************************************
Amendment XIV - Citizenship rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

1. ; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

I think there has been more than enough due process in this case.

[Sam]

Connie, Is it Right for a husband to be allowed by law to beat his wife with a stick no bigger than his thumb?

Google all you like...It is not in the Constitution is it ? But it is law on the book in some places...


All of us know that doctors nor the law nor anyone else ( all jokes aside )is always correct.

If you want to think or feel that starving and dehydrating someone to death and it taking them two weeks to die is NOT cruel and inhumane so be it. That is your opinion as it is the opine of others.... just as I and others feel THAT intentional forcing death upon someone and for them by such means and for that person to take two weeks to die is a crimminal act.

I know of several cases of people being prosecuted for animal cruelty for treating their pets and other animals as such.....

I know we as a nation have went to fight, die and bleed over people being intentionally starved... How many Irish died because the British refused to allow them food in the potato famine? Brits were never prosecuted....so does that make death by starvation humane?

What about the Nazis, or the Japanese or Stalin or Pol Pot or numerous others that have starved millions to death? do you approve of their conduct? I think not... but you are all for starving a woman that committed no crime and taking of her life.......

How do you know who is right or who is wrong? You want to take the life away of a parents child to satisfy what? something based upon a one time conversation that the husband waited years to recall??

I only know that it is quite possible that given past demonstrated performance..... miracles do happen.... if she is intentionally killed then who will ever know? Who gave her the chance?

Who was taking the chance of one occuring away from her?? Who knows what her wishes actually are or were???

Would you condemn a person to death row for such dubious testimony?

Do you really know if Terri is inside?

Does she not deserve to have the Right to question or some one to question for her?

[LIPH]

The President, the Senate and the House of Representatives have no business getting involved in this case. It's a family matter and once the court ruled on it, it should have been over. Period. End of discussion.

[jackiesic]

I was sitting on the fence with my opinion but I've been doing some reading and here is what I've found.


The doctor (chosen by her husband, not the courts) who came up with the
PVS diag. that the Fl. Judge is relying on is an avowed euthanasia advocate.

Since her condition arose 15 years ago, she has never had an MRI; her
husband has blocked that.
Read editorial w/info
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/j ... 160848.asp

She is not on artificial life sustenance: she breathes on her own. She
can swallow, which her family
maintains could be furthered improved with therapy -- which her husband
has denied her for the past 10 years.

The Florida laws say that "life-prolonging procedures" may be stopped,
but not withholding food and water, and since she can swallow, why should
these be denied? That's outright starvation.

Other points:
1) Other therapy has also been denied which would allow her to be more
comfortable while alive
2) Early medical records after her collapse showed fractures that had healed
consistent with severe beating but no investigation was ever done. No
investigation was done into the circumstances of her collapse, which took
place in her home while alone w/her husband. TV news says "potassium
imbalance brought on by eating disorder".
3) He had refused to let her parents and sister even visit her in the
hospice since last autumn (til Friday when feeding tube was removed).


From RN's site who is at her bedside
http://fight4terri.blogspot.com/2004/10 ... yl-ford-rn.
htmlFACT-- most damning part IMO:

3/26/1991 ---Nurses Notes--- Terri's side rail on her bed found down after
Michael left. When told about it, he replied that "that was their job.
FACT -- 1993 CAROLYN JOHNSON-- No therapy per husbands orders. Dr's orders
over ridden. Patient kept in isolation, no stimulation.
FACT-- APRIL 1995-JULY 1996 -- CARLA SAUER AFFIDAVIT MICHAEL ORDERS NO
REHAB; NO RANGE OF MOTION;NO NOTHING.
PATIENT ALERT AND ORIENTED, SPOKE REGULARLY "MOMMA, "MOMMY' "HELP M

All interesting stuff to ponder.

[mermaidindisguise]

As a Floridian, a pro-choicer and proud of it, I would be much more impressed if President Bush and his s***-up brother would spend there time making the law tougher on SEX OFFENDERS so that I don't have to worry about MY 10 year old daughter being taken out of my house, raped and killed bc the laws are too leniant - but Bush will actually stop his vacation (a miracle in itself) to prolong the agony of one poor woman... where he had no business anyway. Some people consider being in a vegetative state for 15 years living - that's your opinion. Why don't you try it - from right now - get in your bed... and just lay there for 15 years without talkng, loving, being able to feed yourself, eat out, go on vacation. go online (god forbid for some of you), kiss, hug, ... I guarantee you couldn't do it for 15 days and I would bet the farm that Teri Schiavo did not want to do it for 15 years.